Coach Jones?

[siouxjoy]

Really?  It seems to me that it is people on your side that want to silence the critics with all your "everything is fine the way it is" rhetoric.  I get shouted down whenever I point out obvious truths about problems that exist in our athletic department instead of valid rebuttal points that offer a different point of view.  That is the real "backhand slap" to our alma mater and to those of us that don't want the MBB program to atrophy to the point of the FB program where it needs a total rebuild from the bottom up.

 

And don't think we can't come up with buyout dollars for Jones like we did for Mussman.  There are probably more than a few basketball alums who are not happy with the current state of the MBB program.

...or, people just point out things that they disagree with about your statements.  I am sad that you think people are shouting you down.  And that you feel that a dissenting thought is somehow an assault on you.  And that you feel that there are "sides" here.  When I visit ss.com I find a whole bunch of people who love UND and want the best for it...but have a whole lot of ideas on how to go about achieving it. Sure, some are super annoying and have terrible grammar, but you could say the same about members of my family, so there you go.

 

Sometimes it helps to just take a deep breath, Brian.  There is way too much good in the world that will pass you by if you don't appreciate it (including duckies and bunnies    )! 

[darell1976]

...or, people just point out things that they disagree with about your statements.  I am sad that you think people are shouting you down.  And that you feel that a dissenting thought is somehow an assault on you.  And that you feel that there are "sides" here.  When I visit ss.com I find a whole bunch of people who love UND and want the best for it...but have a whole lot of ideas on how to go about achieving it. Sure, some are super annoying and have terrible grammar, but you could say the same about members of my family, so there you go.

 

Sometimes it helps to just take a deep breath, Brian.  There is way too much good in the world that will pass you by if you don't appreciate it (including duckies and bunnies    )! 

Some people made it that way on others with different opinions.  I started this thread after hearing about his lack of coaching skills and him being fired in other game threads. So to make it simple I created this thread to lump that here, and some people use that against me. Saying everything from me being a fan of firing coaches, to even questioning my loyalty as a UND fan (wishing they would lose). All because I think UND deserves better and would like to see this program reach new heights by beating a ranked team, beating OOC teams consistently on the road, winning the conference, going to the dance.  Everyone has a right to his/her opinion on the next step for UND basketball, but it seems there are others who would love nothing but silence those who disagree with them.

[fightingsioux4life]

...or, people just point out things that they disagree with about your statements.  I am sad that you think people are shouting you down.  And that you feel that a dissenting thought is somehow an assault on you.  And that you feel that there are "sides" here.  When I visit ss.com I find a whole bunch of people who love UND and want the best for it...but have a whole lot of ideas on how to go about achieving it. Sure, some are super annoying and have terrible grammar, but you could say the same about members of my family, so there you go.

 

Sometimes it helps to just take a deep breath, Brian.  There is way too much good in the world that will pass you by if you don't appreciate it (including duckies and bunnies    )! 

Hey, don't get me wrong, there are some good things going on at UND.  FB is in good hands with Bubba.  MH continues to be a top 5 NCAA program.  WBB is doing very well with Brewster in charge.  I am simply concerned that we are stuck in neutral at best while our "friends" 75 miles to the south are rolling along and getting all sorts of positive media attention in the process.  And don't be fooled, it does matter how we are perceived vs. how NDSU is perceived.  It matters in recruiting local and regional athletes, it matters in terms of fan support (not the die-hards on this forum, but the average sports fan), it matters in terms of alumni donations and so on.  Sometimes I get the feeling that Faison and Kelley are not as dedicated to making athletics the best they can be vs. NDSU's administration.  Whiskey Joe Chapman might have been a weasel and crooked, but he did understand how athletics can lift an entire university (NDSU) and community (Fargo).  I am not sure Kupchella and now Kelley have the same perspective.  I do apologize if I have offended anyone (that is not my purpose here), but I am passionate about this place and I want us to be the best we can be.  And right now, I don't know if we are moving in the right direction or not.

 

I guess what I mean by "being shouted down" is the reaction I and others get on this forum when we point out some obvious shortcomings in one or more of our athletic programs.  Some people get really close to questioning our loyalty (which I have ZERO tolerance for), some people say we want a "gold-plated" verison of D-I athletics (an absurd assumption in my book) and some people are simply satisfied with being Division I without any expectations for success attached (which I think makes all the time and money spent on the transition a waste).  People can disagree with what I post and what I think all they want, but that doesn't mean I won't defend my positions.  And as I have said before, I will gladly come on here and admit I am wrong if my assumptions and perceptions are proven wrong.

 

Hope that clears some things up.

[hoopster]

Football coach won 3 out of 8  in conference 37% win percentage .Jones is at 60% in Big Sky.......  Pretty much should fire both tennis coaches, golf coach, baseball coach, cross country coaches, swimming coach...all doing worse than Jones

[jdub27]

some people are simply satisfied with being Division I without any expectations for success attached (which I think makes all the time and money spent on the transition a waste). 

 

I honestly believe this part to be absolutely false.  I don't think there is anyone, regardless of opinion, that doesn't want and expect success for UND.  The transition means that the type of success that is realistically attainable isn't the same as it was in D-2 in a lot of sports, but there isn't anyone who doesn't want UND to be successful.  There are realities and constraints that do come into play, whether us as fans like it or even realize it.  Despite that, I still expect UND to be a place where a student athlete is given a chance to excel on and off the field.

[UND1983]

Football coach won 3 and 5 in conference 37% win percentage .Jones is at 60% in Big Sky.......  Pretty much should fire both tennis coaches, golf coach, baseball coach, cross country coaches, swimming coach...all doing worse than Jones

 

Let's give Bubba nine more years and see if can achieve a winning record.  If not, he is gone. 

 

Those other coaches, they don't stand a chance.  Too cold, right?  

[fightingsioux4life]

I honestly believe this part to be absolutely false.  I don't think there is anyone, regardless of opinion, that doesn't want and expect success for UND.  The transition means that the type of success that is realistically attainable isn't the same as it was in D-2 in a lot of sports, but there isn't anyone who doesn't want UND to be successful.

I do not expect national titles in basketball at the D-I level.  I do expect us to be annual contenders for the MBB Big Sky autobid and to make occasional trips to the NCAA tournament in March like the WBB team did last season; which brings all sorts of positive media attention to our school and team.  I do expect us to compete for Big Sky tournament titles in VB as well.  I do expect us to compete for conference and national titles in FCS football and I do think Bubba is the man to take us there.  I hope that clears up my positions on those sports.

[Shawn-O]

Football coach won 3 out of 8  in conference 37% win percentage .Jones is at 60% in Big Sky.......  Pretty much should fire both tennis coaches, golf coach, baseball coach, cross country coaches, swimming coach...all doing worse than Jones

 

Selfish, .475 basketball.   That's what we'll continue to get.   That said, I think it would take along the lines of a 2-16 Big Sky campaign to get Faison to even think about it.  Oh, oops.  Did I just say that out loud?  Don't want to turn off any potential recruits.  

[Goon]

Despite the extreme cold, Lack of money...team has to play a bunch of road games to afford trip to Italy next summer, cannot afford a video board that some high schools teams have, lack of In state talent , Hockey School, NDSU is a more attractive in state program higher RPI  conference, bigger metropolitan area, And Basketball not an after thought to other sports.  Do not be stupid enough to compare NDSU football to UND hockey NDSU football is a 2nd tier Sport at NCAA level UND Hockey plays at the TOP NCAA level. The fact that UND has been one of the TOP 3 big sky teams since joining is amazing!!!  Since Joining the Big Sky 2 years ago UND has finished 2nd and 3rd.  I guess there are 9 other coaches doing worse that need to be fired!  Heck 80% of the College basketball coaches in the USA have done worse in their  conference the last 2 years....Might as well fire 80% of all the coaches out there!   The 20 % of the coaches who do not deserve to be fired yet  UND can offer them a 1.5 Million a year to coach the team.  Amazing

 

Also, is UND status as a Mid Major something to look at, too? It's not like any of the schools in the BSC would be able make a run at the ACC or Big Ten Title.

[GeauxSioux]

The Weekly Live Chat should be interesting this afternoon.

[Goon]

I do not expect national titles in basketball at the D-I level.  I do expect us to be annual contenders for the MBB Big Sky autobid and to make occasional trips to the NCAA tournament in March like the WBB team did last season; which brings all sorts of positive media attention to our school and team.  I do expect us to compete for Big Sky tournament titles in VB as well.  I do expect us to compete for conference and national titles in FCS football and I do think Bubba is the man to take us there.  I hope that clears up my positions on those sports.

IRC UND lost to Weber State in the BSC championship title game last year. In what their second season? I would say that's being pretty successful. If I am not mistaken, I thought I heard coach Jones say that his team was banged up right now. I did watch the game UMN and UND game on ESPN and it wasn't all that close. The announcers were pretty complimentary towards coach Jones.

[Shawn-O]

Also, is UND status as a Mid Major something to look at, too? It's not like any of the schools in the BSC would be able make a run at the ACC or Big Ten Title.

 

Who is suggesting they should?  

[fightingsioux4life]

IRC UND lost to Weber State in the BSC championship title game last year. In what their second season? I would say that's being pretty successful. If I am not mistaken, I thought I heard coach Jones say that his team was banged up right now. I did watch the game UMN and UND game on ESPN and it wasn't all that close. The announcers were pretty complimentary towards coach Jones.

I think UND reaching the BSC championship game is analogus to the FB team winning a share of the Great West title in 2011 with that comeback win over USD at home.  In other words, not necessarily a sign of progress and better things to come.

[UNDBIZ]

These are the 2013 numbers but take them with a grain of salt because of how college athletics accounting works.  I'm also not 100% sure how the "cost" of a scholarship is figured into the expenses, especially when related to in-state, out-of-state, etc (the total for Men's Athletic Aid is $1,975K and Women's is $1,908K).  And with the large amount of unallocated funds, its safe to say the numbers aren't completely accurate but it at least give somewhat of an idea of costs.  Regardless, this is how the expenses were reported:

 

Non-Revenue

Baseball: $469K                                                    -$469K

Men's Golf: $101K

Women's Golf: $264K

Women's Hockey: $1,252K $802K                    -$450K

Soccer: $503K

Softball: $457K

Men's S/D: $298K

Women's S/D: $435K

Men's Tennis: $81K

Women's Tennis: $227K

Men's T/F: $372K

Women's T/F: $556K

 

Revenue

MBB: $1,028K $1,325K                                        +$297K

WBB: $1,109K $1,375K                                        +$266K

Football: $3,100K $3,300K                                  +$200K

Men's Hockey: $4,629K

VB: $624K $780K                                                  +$156K

 

Unallocated - $6,340K

 

AD for a day.....

[gfhockey]

Id take women's hockey lower

There's been no return on investment

[ArtVandalay]

I think UND reaching the BSC championship game is analogus to the FB team winning a share of the Great West title in 2011 with that comeback win over USD at home. In other words, not necessarily a sign of progress and better things to come.

Aren't you contradicting what you said 1 post earlier?

[UNDBIZ]

Id take women's hockey lower

There's been no return on investment

 

I wouldn't argue against that.

[hoopster]

Let's give Bubba nine more years and see if can achieve a winning record.  If not, he is gone. 

 

Those other coaches, they don't stand a chance.  Too cold, right?  

Give jones 9 years to get a winning record... oh.oh  he got it in season 3, oh Jones has had 4 consecutive conference winning season in a row.   All coaches with less than 5 straight winning conference records in a row must get fired ...That means  about 85% of coaches should get fired...that makes perfect sense....

[fightingsioux4life]

Aren't you contradicting what you said 1 post earlier?

No because I think reaching the BSC title game last year was a fluke for the MBB team, a fluke that I do not think will be repeated in the coming years under Jones.

[Goon]

Who is suggesting they should?  

 

Looking at the Standings, UND has a 3-6 non-conference record and of the 12 teams in the BSC only four teams have a record above .500 right now. Weber State, last year dance participant, is also 3-6. I guess I don't see the grounds for firing the coach who has put a respectable team on the hard wood. The Big Sky is a pretty tough conference and I don't think last year run was a fluke.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Goon

[Shawn-O]

Looking at the Standings, UND has a 3-6 non-conference record and of the 12 teams in the BSC only four teams have a record above .500 right now. Weber State, last year dance participant, is also 3-6. I guess I don't see the grounds for firing the coach who has put a respectable team on the hard wood. The Big Sky is a pretty tough conference and I don't think last year run was a fluke.

 

I'm not advocating a firing as of today.  And I don't see it happening barring a complete disaster in conference, which I don't see coming and certainly don't wish for. That said, I think it's a legitimate discussion to talk about other coaching options out there.  It's a discussion board.  If Hakstol was .100 OOC road during his run I wonder what tune you'd be whistling? 

[GeauxSioux]

Take a look through some old box scores and I bet you will find that UND gets outscored in the second half, more often than not.  Other teams make adjustments, where UND does not seem to.

[fightingsioux4life]

Looking at the Standings, UND has a 3-6 non-conference record and of the 12 teams in the BSC only four teams have a record above .500 right now. Weber State, last year dance participant, is also 3-6. I guess I don't see the grounds for firing the coach who has put a respectable team on the hard wood. The Big Sky is a pretty tough conference and I don't think last year run was a fluke.

Going to have to disagree on the bolded statement above.  The BSC is not a good MBB conference.

[UND1983]

Give jones 9 years to get a winning record... oh.oh  he got it in season 3, oh Jones has had 4 consecutive conference winning season in a row.   All coaches with less than 5 straight winning conference records in a row must get fired ...That means  about 85% of coaches should get fired...that makes perfect sense....

 

What is his record as a coach?

 

Listen, I like UND basketball.  I really do having followed it for over 25 years now.  But, this groundhogs day scenario crap is getting old.  There is a reason that USD fired Meierkort after his 6-5 season.  They saw that play already and knew what the ceiling was.  Why Nebraska fired Pelini...they had seen 9-4 year after year and realized that was the ceiling.  These are proven firings, not hypotheticals.  Pelini couldn't beat any good teams, only inferior one's.  Ring a bell?

 

They guy has been here nine years and had a losing record overall.  Why would anything change in the next nine years?  

[fightingsioux4life]

What is his record as a coach?

 

Listen, I like UND basketball.  I really do having followed it for over 25 years now.  But, this groundhogs day scenario crap is getting old.  There is a reason that USD fired Meierkort after his 6-5 season.  They saw that play already and knew what the ceiling was.  Why Nebraska fired Pelini...they had seen 9-4 year after year and realized that was the ceiling.  These are proven firings, not hypotheticals.  Pelini couldn't beat any good teams, only inferior one's.  Ring a bell?

 

They guy has been here nine years and had a losing record overall.  Why would anything change in the next nine years?  

Don't forget Glen Mason at Minnesota.  He loaded up on a soft non-conference schedule, which allowed him to get to 6 wins and be bowl eligible even while getting destroyed by the B1G elite.  But he forgot one little detail; you must win the crappy bowl game you get or else.  That is what doomed him in the end.  Now they are building a better program with Jerry Kill.