President Kennedy Message on Athletics

[SiouxVolley]

Huge cutbacks in funding can either galvanize an athletic program, or bring then down further.  Look at the example of W Kentucky.  In the 1990's, the state cut back funding to WKU athletics by over $6 million, which was a monstrous cut then.  WKU admin wanted to cut football.  But at the time, WKU had a coach named Jack Harbaugh, the dAD of Jim and John.  Jack proposed keeping the program with reduced cost and the program got saved.  He kept building it until they won an FCS championship, even though WKU was clearly a basketball school.

Then WKU moved to FBS, even though it had only a 8k stadium with stands on one side.  It built on the other side, got in the Belt and out of the MVFC, and had a few losing seasons where they were seemingly hopeless.  They perservered, starting winning, and are now the class of CUSA and have won several bowl games.   WKU can teach us alot.

[homer]

20 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Huge cutbacks in funding can either galvanize an athletic program, or bring then down further.  Look at the example of W Kentucky.  In the 1990's, the state cut back funding to WKU athletics by over $6 million, which was a monstrous cut then.  WKU admin wanted to cut football.  But at the time, WKU had a coach named Jack Harbaugh, the dAD of Jim and John.  Jack proposed keeping the program with reduced cost and the program got saved.  He kept building it until they won an FCS championship, even though WKU was clearly a basketball school.

Then WKU moved to FBS, even though it had only a 8k stadium with stands on one side.  It built on the other side, got in the Belt and out of the MVFC, and had a few losing seasons where they were seemingly hopeless.  They perservered, starting winning, and are now the class of CUSA and have won several bowl games.   WKU can teach us alot.

They could teach us a lot but they can't change our location.  

[SIOUXFAN97]

9 minutes ago, homer said:

They could teach us a lot but they can't change our location.  

with that mentality we might as well drop to d3 and play the cobbers!! didn't know that spokane was a hotbed for basketball

[UND1983]

13 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

with that mentality we might as well drop to d3 and play the cobbers!! didn't know that spokane was a hotbed for basketball

Hotbed for recruiting has nothing to do with it.  

Who are we going to play, what conference, and how much does it cost the other schools to travel here?  Oh, alot?  

There is your difference.

[ringneck28]

15 hours ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

Here's a question.  Why cut S&D if cutting women's hockey alone made the financial goal?

The reason they cut S&D was because the summit league does not have S&D. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

8 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Hotbed for recruiting has nothing to do with it.  

Who are we going to play, what conference, and how much does it cost the other schools to travel here?  Oh, alot?  

There is your difference.

with that mentality we might as well drop to naia?? bring on jamestown!!

[UND1983]

5 minutes ago, ringneck28 said:

The reason they cut S&D was because the summit league does not have S&D. 

Really?

[jdub27]

2 minutes ago, ringneck28 said:

The reason they cut S&D was because the summit league does not have S&D. 

Why does this keep popping up? The Big Sky does not sponsor swimming and diving but the Summit definitely does.

[dlsiouxfan]

23 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Compare USAFA MLAX travel to UND WSD travel. 
http://www.goairforcefalcons.com/sports/m-lacros/sched/afa-m-lacros-sched.html
http://www.undsports.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=6396&SPSID=58621&DB_OEM_ID=13500

Or DU MLAX to UND MSD
http://www.undsports.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=6398&SPSID=58636&DB_OEM_ID=13500
http://www.denverpioneers.com/sports/m-lacros/sched/denv-m-lacros-sched.html

Roster sizes? Similar. 

Difference? The potential for a gate. <-- There's real revenue; and as the sport grows, camp revenues. (Don't forget Canadians are LAX bonkers right after hockey bonkers.) 

But now is not the right time. The house must be put in order first. 

I don't get why you think UND would generate revenue out of this.  The market that you keep citing as a potential market for players and fans (MSP) just had a professional lacrosse team fold only two years ago (the Swarm).  If they can't make it cash flow, why would a program at UND be any different?  Like women's hockey, there is a reason that most institutions won't touch lacrosse with a ten foot pole.  There is no market there. 

[cberkas]

1 hour ago, ringneck28 said:

The reason they cut S&D was because the summit league does not have S&D. 

Actually they do sponsor swimming and diving.

http://www.thesummitleague.org/sports/swimdive/index

[SiouxVolley]

48 minutes ago, dlsiouxfan said:

I don't get why you think UND would generate revenue out of this.  The market that you keep citing as a potential market for players and fans (MSP) just had a professional lacrosse team fold only two years ago (the Swarm).  If they can't make it cash flow, why would a program at UND be any different?  Like women's hockey, there is a reason that most institutions won't touch lacrosse with a ten foot pole.  There is no market there. 

The athletic department doesn't cash flow but the U comes close to it because lax players pay at least 3/4 ers of tuition  at private schools with high tuition, schools are lined up to add it.  It will lose a lot less than football.  Women's lax is a very popular add now, more than doubling teams at all levels in the past 20 years.  Men's lax is popular at under DI levels because of the enrollment blip.

For UND, that means more kids from the burbs, which is what enrollment gurus say we need.

[homer]

2 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

with that mentality we might as well drop to naia?? bring on jamestown!!

What FBS conference do you see UND joining for football?  Honest question.  

You compare WKU to UND, the glaring difference at the start is location.  Like it or not it does make things a lot easier.  

[cberkas]

2 minutes ago, homer said:

What FBS conference do you see UND joining for football?  Honest question.  

You compare WKU to UND, the glaring difference at the start is location.  Like it or not it does make things a lot easier.  

That was SiouxVolley not SIOUXFAN97.

[SWSiouxMN]

Swim and Dive is a Summit sport, however only 5 Summit teams on the Men's side and 6 Summit teams on the women's side have Swim and Dive.  It is the smallest participating sport in the conference.

So I am wondering if during last month's meetings and the whole penalty article floating around during that time, did the two parties come to an understanding on what UND could cut and avoid anymore fees? 

*They do have an affilidate for both in EIU, but I'm only counting the Summit teams

[southpaw]

On 4/1/2017 at 1:22 PM, The Sicatoka said:

Compare USAFA MLAX travel to UND WSD travel. 
http://www.goairforcefalcons.com/sports/m-lacros/sched/afa-m-lacros-sched.html
http://www.undsports.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=6396&SPSID=58621&DB_OEM_ID=13500

Or DU MLAX to UND MSD
http://www.undsports.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=6398&SPSID=58636&DB_OEM_ID=13500
http://www.denverpioneers.com/sports/m-lacros/sched/denv-m-lacros-sched.html

Roster sizes? Similar. 

Difference? The potential for a gate. <-- There's real revenue; and as the sport grows, camp revenues. (Don't forget Canadians are LAX bonkers right after hockey bonkers.) 

But now is not the right time. The house must be put in order first. 

One of those schools doesn't charge for attendance and averages fewer than 400 fans per game during the 5 home games each year.  Right now, the Academy shows a big 0 for gate for lacrosse.

Denver, a recent national champion averages close to 2,500 people per game, depending on weather.  At $15 a pop for their 8-9 home games, that's a very generous $300,000 in attendance for a sport that features one opponent (AF) within 1,000 miles. 

UND's closest opponent would be 650 miles away and only two teams under 1,000 miles.

[homer]

1 hour ago, cberkas said:

That was SiouxVolley not SIOUXFAN97.

He made the comment of dropping to D3 if we have the mentality of location being a factor.  Like it or not it will always be a factor.  Maybe not for UND but for sure for conferences looking at any school in the Dakotas.  

[cberkas]

22 minutes ago, homer said:

He made the comment of dropping to D3 if we have the mentality of location being a factor.  Like it or not it will always be a factor.  Maybe not for UND but for sure for conferences looking at any school in the Dakotas.  

I thought you were talking about the WKU stuff.

[SIOUXFAN97]

3 hours ago, homer said:

What FBS conference do you see UND joining for football?  Honest question.  

You compare WKU to UND, the glaring difference at the start is location.  Like it or not it does make things a lot easier.  

going fbs should be a goal of und...but some people don't have the vision. i think pres kennedy might tho..he's getting stuff done...not quick but getting things that have been put off for years done...

[SiouxVolley]

Womens lax is NDSU's obvious next add if they go add a women's team for Title IX.  They don't have a swimming facility, won't add WIH, wont build a tennis facility, and haven't shown interest in women's equestrian like SDSU.  Of course it's a few years down the road, but UND could have monster facilities compared to them.  The Fargo Dome turf isn't big enough for lax.

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

going fbs should be a goal of und...but some people don't have the vision. i think pres kennedy might tho..he's getting stuff done...not quick but getting things that have been put off for years done...

Will be interesting to see if Wichita St does add fcs fb as their President has talked about in the past.  FBS would be several years down the road, but the AAC wouldn't add their FB as a bottom feeder.  If WSU adds fb, Mo St would want their FB at the same level.  Could see them withdraw from the MVFC too.  Again, several years down the road.

Sam Houston St and Lamar both have been interested in going FBS by way of the Sun Belt, but have been turned down.  There is no shortage of schools wanting FBS if a group goes together, as FBS G5 conferences max out payments at 10, making the G5 conferences completely uninterested in further expansion.

[southpaw]

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

...and haven't shown interest in women's equestrian like SDSU.

So just to be clear, despite showing no interest in women's lacrosse, it's the obvious add?  Yet when they show no interest in equestrian it means they're definitely not adding it?

[SiouxVolley]

34 minutes ago, southpaw said:

So just to be clear, despite showing no interest in women's lacrosse, it's the obvious add?  Yet when they show no interest in equestrian it means they're definitely not adding it?

Well, NDSU has both as club teams.  But SDSU spent more then $1 mill back in 2010 on its equestrian team and probably more now.  NDSU seems to need more facilities for it, more horses instead of sheep and cattle, and doesn't have that kind of money now.  Equestrian athletes often get barn duty, so if the school has an existing horse population, they have to spend long days there training and cleaning.   Some NDSU posters have stated the NCAA might do away with women's equestrian, so would NDSU hang themselves out like that?

The main hangup for NDSU women's lax besides affiliation is that there is not another school yet to work as a local travel partner. Lax teams like to get two games on a weekend trip like wbb, so UND and NDSU would be ideal travel partners for the MPSF which will be looking for teams as the PAC12 is splitting off or a future Midwest oriented single sport lax league.

Lax would easily be cheaper.  Might as well be argumentative about NDSU WIH, as it has a club team too, and arguments, not information, seem to be your specialty.

[Rebel_Sioux]

On Saturday, April 01, 2017 at 10:12 PM, The Sicatoka said:

Because they needed to reallocate resources toward fully funding seven sports when they move to the Summit League. 

I'd recommend going to UNDSports.com and reading the full release. It spells it out reasonably well. 

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=211538211 

That article really doesn't cover why those two sports were chosen over any other sports. The simple answer is that they were the two most expensive sports. But considering they were both much more successful than tennis, soccer and softball...I still question the choice to cut both programs.

I don't blame Kennedy for this he inherited a mess and it got worse once he got here, and he had to make a tough choice. I just want to know the other options he realistically had and what reasoning he ultimately used to make his choice.

[SWSiouxMN]

13 minutes ago, Rebel_Sioux said:

That article really doesn't cover why those two sports were chosen over any other sports. The simple answer is that they were the two most expensive sports. But considering they were both much more successful than tennis, soccer and softball...I still question the choice to cut both programs.

I don't blame Kennedy for this he inherited a mess and it got worse once he got here, and he had to make a tough choice. I just want to know the other options he realistically had and what reasoning he ultimately used to make his choice.

Tennis is a core sport in the Big Sky, so cutting that could have hurt UND by not being able to compete for conference championships (deemed ineligible in all sports). 

While softball and soccer are not core sports, the Summit could have "recommended" at the conference meeting in early March that they keep them when they move in 2018 or face a $300,000 penalty. Also with soccer, they just hired a new coach recently.

Truthfully: I don't think UND had any other choice.  The two articles below is where I got my info.

http:/http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/4221443-und-may-face-summit-league-penalty-fees-if-cutting-sports

www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4241417-und-athletics-teams-brace-budget-cut-announcement

 

[Rebel_Sioux]

7 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

Tennis is a core sport in the Big Sky, so cutting that could have hurt UND by not being able to compete for conference championships (deemed ineligible in all sports). 

While softball and soccer are not core sports, the Summit could have "recommended" at the conference meeting in early March that they keep them when they move in 2018 or face a $300,000 penalty. Also with soccer, they just hired a new coach recently.

Truthfully: I don't think UND had any other choice.  The two articles below is where I got my info.

http:/http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/4221443-und-may-face-summit-league-penalty-fees-if-cutting-sports

www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4241417-und-athletics-teams-brace-budget-cut-announcement

 

Forgot about golf. Could have cut that too.

Good info. Although it really only would have prevented us from championship games for one year. We would have still been eligible for the NIT/WNIT with regular season wins and football would get an at large bid. So such a penalty would have hurt volleyball the most. 

Longterm still might have worked out better. 

 

Not sure the penalty to Summit applies or not since we haven't technically started playing there yet. I'm sure Kennedy and Faison would know that information though.