UND FIGHTING HAWKS vs. DU Pioneers - SATURDAY Gameday

[Irish]

Im not positive on this, but I have read that the defense dictates wether you carry it in or dump and chase. Maybe the speed of the offense this season changes the defense? 

If this simple change would give success verses not changing, why would Hak not do it? In other words, no way this is because of a coaching decision only, IMO.

I feel you are partially correct in that you need to take steps to counter what the defense gives you.  However, I find it hard to believe that the same teams we have been playing for years all of a sudden have as a group changed their defenses.  If you think in basketball terms, some teams are much more of a fast-break type than others even though we all know that offenses need to match the defense (zone, man-to man, press).  If an up-tempo team and a controlled team play against the same opponent you will see very different games.  Same in hockey.  

[burd]

I think they still dump and chase, and they still keep the puck to the perimeter in the D zone and first pass out.   But they seem to be forechecking in a different way, though I obviously don't have an informed explanation of how.  Interested in hearing what those on here with substantial coaching experience have to say.  

[fightingsioux4life]

Im not positive on this, but I have read that the defense dictates wether you carry it in or dump and chase. Maybe the speed of the offense this season changes the defense? 

If this simple change would give success verses not changing, why would Hak not do it? In other words, no way this is because of a coaching decision only, IMO.

Why wouldn't Hakstol do it? Because he refused to budge from his "Baseline Defensive System" no matter what. Under Hakstol, we almost always did the "dump-chase-cycle-cycle-cycle" routine when we got to the blue line. Under Berry, they are carrying the puck across the blue line whenever they can and doing the dump and chase when it is appropriate. I noticed it right away in the Manitoba game. That puts pressure on the opposing teams defensemen and goaltender. That also helps create scoring chances. And as we saw this weekend, you can have a dynamic offense and still play solid team defense. And with a former defenseman in charge of the program (Berry), I don't think defense will ever be a problem for this team.

Even if you promote an assistant coach to take over a program, you will have some changes in how the team plays. Two of the biggest I have noticed are carrying the puck across the blue line and shooting more on the Power Play. I think both have been good for this team.

[choyt3]

Really? We are going to turn this into a "bash Hakstol" discussion? 

Yes, let's hear from coaches on this topic. 

FS4L, Hakstol was also a defenseman when he played. What's your take that?

[AZSIOUX]

In what way, exactly, AZ?    

I would say in overall freedom to make plays. The break out seems faster and this teams skating and utilizing that to bring the puck in rather than ringing it around. Not saying Hak ran a bad system cause what the hell do I know just seems more freedom to make plays and guys moving without the puck more often.  Fun team to watch. Guess we will all see how it shakes out hopefully in Tampa come April. Hak was a hell of a coach. Berry has had a nice start. 

Edited December 6, 2015 by AZSIOUX

[Irish]

Really? We are going to turn this into a "bash Hakstol" discussion? 

Yes, let's hear from coaches on this topic. 

FS4L, Hakstol was also a defenseman when he played. What's your take that?

Who's bashing Hak - there is a difference in style of play and it is noticeable and being discussed.  I thought that was a pretty accurate description of Hak's system/.

[fightingsioux4life]

Really? We are going to turn this into a "bash Hakstol" discussion? 

Yes, let's hear from coaches on this topic. 

FS4L, Hakstol was also a defenseman when he played. What's your take that?

Bashing? I was merely comparing what looks like two different styles and admitting my preference for one over the other. My comment on Berry being a former D-Man was to make the point that you can have a dynamic offense and still play good defense; you don't have to give up one for the other.

There always are style and system differences when you replace one head coach with another. I saw it with the Blais to Hakstol transition and I am seeing it with the Hakstol to Berry transition.

The important thing is, we are winning and we are looking good doing so.

[Oxbow6]

I posed this in the '15-'16 Season thread:   Is this team 14-2-2 right now if Hak is still coach?

Simple question?  (Channeling my inner gfhockey)

[Oxbow6]

Berry is letting the players make plays. There is no shove the "square peg in the round hole" from what I have seen with him.

[burd]

I posed this in the '15-'16 Season thread:   Is this team 14-2-2 right now if Hak is still coach?

Simple question?  (Channeling my inner gfhockey)

No way of knowing, but Hak did have some teams that got me excited in a similar way.   All I care about is that it is a privilege to watch this team, and I intend to enjoy it while it lasts, banner or no banner.  

[scpa0305]

I posed this in the '15-'16 Season thread:   Is this team 14-2-2 right now if Hak is still coach?

Simple question?  (Channeling my inner gfhockey)

I don't think there would be any difference to me.  This team's D-core is so good that other teams are having problems doing anything against them.  They come out of the corners with the puck, their first pass out of the Dzone is awesome, they give other teams 0 time and space, and they are playmakers in the Ozone.  I can't remember the last time I've seen this deep of a D core in college hockey, it's been awhile.  Couple that with some offensive playmakers and a steady goalie and any coach is going to have a bunch of wins.

If they can get some secondary scoring on a consistent basis they should easily have top seed come tourney time.

Edited December 6, 2015 by scpa0305

[burd]

I don't think there would be any difference to me.  This team's D-core is so good that other teams are having problems doing anything against them.  They come out of the corners with the puck, their first pass out of the Dzone is awesome, they give other teams 0 time and space, and they are playmakers in the Ozone.  I can't remember the last time I've seen this deep of a D core in college hockey, it's been awhile.  Couple that with some offensive playmakers and a steady goalie and any coach is going to have a bunch of wins.

If they can get some secondary scoring on a consistent basis they should easily have top seed come tourney time.

This makes a lot of sense to me. 

[Let'sGoHawks!]

I'm watching last night's UND game and to a non-Hawks fan, one would think Jake Brandt is the biggest homer announcer but to me, I absolutely love his enthusiasm and energy! He was so fired up with the team's play, particularly Schmaltz's defensive stick play!

He is like a die hard in the stands talking to his buddy about the game, I like it a lot.

[fightingsioux4life]

He is like a die hard in the stands talking to his buddy about the game, I like it a lot.

That is what we used to have in the FB radio broadcast booth with Tony "The Cogswell Cannon" Stein. And I think Brandt is much better than Scott Koberinski was.

 

 

[Siouxman]

One thing that is clear to me are the stick skills of the current team.  Their ability to control or steal pucks in traffic is unbelievable.  I am used to seeing Denver teams have good stick skills, but UND made them look like rookies this weekend.  Whatever exercises they are doing to improve those skills are clearly working.  Some of the rest of the difference is player development.  While Cags had some highlight reel goals last year, he needed space.  This year he is very adept at creating his own space and controlling the puck even when he doesn't have space.  There were many plays this weekend when UND did not score, but the demonstrated skill just made you sit back and go "WOW!"

 

Two guys sat next to me who normally do not go to many games.  The skill level of the UND defensemen carrying the puck into the zone and deep into the zone, skating around Denver players, amazed them.  They couldn't believe these guys were defensemen and not forwards.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Siouxman

[bigskyvikes]

I don't think there would be any difference to me.  This team's D-core is so good that other teams are having problems doing anything against them.  They come out of the corners with the puck, their first pass out of the Dzone is awesome, they give other teams 0 time and space, and they are playmakers in the Ozone.  I can't remember the last time I've seen this deep of a D core in college hockey, it's been awhile.  Couple that with some offensive playmakers and a steady goalie and any coach is going to have a bunch of wins.

If they can get some secondary scoring on a consistent basis they should easily have top seed come tourney time.

This is knowledge here..^^^...and I agree. I don't have the knowledge to point this out, but I sure see and agree with what you are saying.

 

Fs4l, you were debunked on this, dump and chase theory of yours from many of the players after Hak left. How they stated  so many people thought Hak stuck to the plan no matter what and they said that was simply not true. If i remember right some on here already gave you links of the interviews, after one of your...its all Haks fault rants.

If they were mediocre, you would say its because these are Haks recruits, if they do good, its because Hak is gone, I don't get it?

I think Hak is a great coach, $10 mill reasons proves this. I also think if this team keeps it up we are going to the promise land!

Couldnt be more excited about Sioux.......Hawks hockey!

[fightingsioux4life]

This is knowledge here..^^^...and I agree. I don't have the knowledge to point this out, but I sure see and agree with what you are saying.

 

Fs4l, you were debunked on this, dump and chase theory of yours from many of the players after Hak left. How they stated  so many people thought Hak stuck to the plan no matter what and they said that was simply not true. If i remember right some on here already gave you links of the interviews, after one of your...its all Haks fault rants.

If they were mediocre, you would say its because these are Haks recruits, if they do good, its because Hak is gone, I don't get it?

I think Hak is a great coach, $10 mill reasons proves this. I also think if this team keeps it up we are going to the promise land!

Couldnt be more excited about Sioux.......Hawks hockey!

Well, I guess we'll find out in the next couple of years. A lot of coaches in the NHL get fired for reasons beyond their control. Of course, Hakstol will get his money either way.

[I Ranger]

Why wouldn't Hakstol do it? Because he refused to budge from his "Baseline Defensive System" no matter what. Under Hakstol, we almost always did the "dump-chase-cycle-cycle-cycle" routine when we got to the blue line. Under Berry, they are carrying the puck across the blue line whenever they can and doing the dump and chase when it is appropriate. I noticed it right away in the Manitoba game. That puts pressure on the opposing teams defensemen and goaltender. That also helps create scoring chances. And as we saw this weekend, you can have a dynamic offense and still play solid team defense. And with a former defenseman in charge of the program (Berry), I don't think defense will ever be a problem for this team.

Even if you promote an assistant coach to take over a program, you will have some changes in how the team plays. Two of the biggest I have noticed are carrying the puck across the blue line and shooting more on the Power Play. I think both have been good for this team.

This is my biggest pet peeve on this site. So many posters on here act as if Hak coached the team to dump and chase the puck even if they had an odd-man rush or a breakaway. Every team will dump and chase many times throughout a game. That's just the way the game is played unless you want the other team storming at your defenseman constantly throughout the game since you never get the puck in deep and keep turning it over at the red or blue lines. I don't disagree that Berry may coach with more offensive freedom but the dump and chase is all dictated by the opposition and numbers. If you don't have numbers or keep getting stood up at the blue line, the puck will need to be dumped. Berry would not be happy if our forwards kept trying to stick handle through defenseman and kept turning the puck over leading to odd-mans the other way.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

This is my biggest pet peeve on this site. So many posters on here act as if Hak coached the team to dump and chase the puck even if they had an odd-man rush or a breakaway. Every team will dump and chase many times throughout a game. That's just the way the game is played unless you want the other team storming at your defenseman constantly throughout the game since you never get the puck in deep and keep turning it over at the red or blue lines. I don't disagree that Berry may coach with more offensive freedom but the dump and chase is all dictated by the opposition and numbers. If you don't have numbers or keep getting stood up at the blue line, the puck will need to be dumped. Berry would not be happy if our forwards kept trying to stick handle through defenseman and kept turning the puck over leading to odd-mans the other way.

FYI the 2nd goal on Saturday night was scored by "ringing the puck around the boards" to enter the zone that everyone seems so against and it was on a powerplay too.  The situation dictates what a player does at the line. 

Edited December 7, 2015 by InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

[bigskyvikes]

This is my biggest pet peeve on this site. So many posters on here act as if Hak coached the team to dump and chase the puck even if they had an odd-man rush or a breakaway. Every team will dump and chase many times throughout a game. That's just the way the game is played unless you want the other team storming at your defenseman constantly throughout the game since you never get the puck in deep and keep turning it over at the red or blue lines. I don't disagree that Berry may coach with more offensive freedom but the dump and chase is all dictated by the opposition and numbers. If you don't have numbers or keep getting stood up at the blue line, the puck will need to be dumped. Berry would not be happy if our forwards kept trying to stick handle through defenseman and kept turning the puck over leading to odd-mans the other way.

Amen!!

[bigskyvikes]

FYI the 2nd goal on Saturday night was scored by "ringing the puck around the boards" to enter the zone that everyone seems so against and it was on a powerplay too.  The situation dictates what a player does at the line. 

Hopefully fs4l and cratter read these posts...

[Cratter]

Hopefully fs4l and cratter read these posts...

Reading comprehension getting in the way again? LOL

I've never said one thing about "dump and chase."

[fightingsioux4life]

This is my biggest pet peeve on this site. So many posters on here act as if Hak coached the team to dump and chase the puck even if they had an odd-man rush or a breakaway. Every team will dump and chase many times throughout a game. That's just the way the game is played unless you want the other team storming at your defenseman constantly throughout the game since you never get the puck in deep and keep turning it over at the red or blue lines. I don't disagree that Berry may coach with more offensive freedom but the dump and chase is all dictated by the opposition and numbers. If you don't have numbers or keep getting stood up at the blue line, the puck will need to be dumped. Berry would not be happy if our forwards kept trying to stick handle through defenseman and kept turning the puck over leading to odd-mans the other way.

You obviously didn't read my post; I said this team dumps it in the zone WHEN APPROPRIATE. And no, we didn't dump it in if we had a breakaway under Hakstol or any other coach, that would be boneheaded. However, I have seen many instances this season where one of our guys carried the puck into the zone with two defensemen in front of him. Under Hakstol, he would have dumped it in. Under Berry, he carries it in and it usually leads to some scoring changes. And it wreaks absolute havoc on the opposition as they scramble to protect their goal crease. Putting pressure on your opponent also leads to turnover and mistakes, which can lead to goals.

I have never said dump and chase is ALWAYS bad, sometimes it is the only play available and sometimes it is just the right play in that circumstance. This whole conversation started when someone had the unmitigated gall to point out that there are some differences between Hakstol and Berry in terms of offensive tactics. That led to all these defensive comments by some people complaining about "Hak Bashing". THAT, my friend, is MY biggest pet peeve on this site.

I do like what this team is doing and I hope they keep on doing it.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

You obviously didn't read my post; I said this team dumps it in the zone WHEN APPROPRIATE. And no, we didn't dump it in if we had a breakaway under Hakstol or any other coach, that would be boneheaded. However, I have seen many instances this season where one of our guys carried the puck into the zone with two defensemen in front of him. Under Hakstol, he would have dumped it in. Under Berry, he carries it in and it usually leads to some scoring changes. And it wreaks absolute havoc on the opposition as they scramble to protect their goal crease. Putting pressure on your opponent also leads to turnover and mistakes, which can lead to goals.

I have never said dump and chase is ALWAYS bad, sometimes it is the only play available and sometimes it is just the right play in that circumstance. This whole conversation started when someone had the unmitigated gall to point out that there are some differences between Hakstol and Berry in terms of offensive tactics. That led to all these defensive comments by some people complaining about "Hak Bashing". THAT, my friend, is MY biggest pet peeve on this site.

I do like what this team is doing and I hope they keep on doing it.

I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong but do you have specific examples of what you're talking about. Like, at X:XX of the 1st period Player A carried the puck in as opposed to dumping it which I think would've been encouraged with Hakstol.

Again, not saying you're incorrect, but speaking in generalities just doesn't convince me of your point quite yet. 

[bigskyvikes]

Reading comprehension getting in the way again? LOL

I've never said one thing about "dump and chase."

Right, you got me...

Maybe you never said in this thread.