Attendance Issues

[Cratter]

UND supports their teams better than any other school in FCS as measured by attendance to their athletic teams events. People only have so much money, time, and energy to invest in an athletic department.

[darell1976]

The Betty is perfect for VB. Except it can use video boards too.

Women's soccer has their offices there too. Maybe the women's hockey coaches need new offices. Or start synchronized skating as a competitive sport like Maimi has done.

What was capacity of the Hyslop? I imagine it was bigger than the Betty.

[UND Fan]

What was capacity of the Hyslop? I imagine it was bigger than the Betty.

 

The official capacity was 4,500; however, attendance was often well into the 5,000's.  We led the nation with 4,943 in '91-'92.  I think the highest attendance reported was about 6,100.

[Cratter]

The official capacity was 4,500; however, attendance was often well into the 5,000's. We led the nation with 4,943 in '91-'92. I think the highest attendance reported was about 6,100.

First game was 7,000 against Montana State.

[darell1976]

Basketball attendance:

 

Dakota 4 2013-14 season:

 

UND 1839  17-17

NDSU 3308 26-7

SDSU 2661 19-13

USD 1796  12-18

 

Dakota 4 2012-13 season:

 

UND 1625  16-17

NDSU 2906  24-10 

SDSU 3625  25-10

USD 1846   10-20

 

Dakota 4 2011-12 season:

 

UND 2045    17-15

NDSU 3156  17-14

SDSU 3320  27-8

USD 1701    10-18

 

Dakota 4 2014-15 season:

 

UND 1903  3-6  (one home game vs Mayville St)

NDSU 2010 (at Scheels Arena)  6-4

SDSU 1942  6-3

USD 1990 (including a game in Sioux Falls)  3-8

[Oxbow6]

NDSU's decline this season can be completely attributed to games being off campus.

[darell1976]

In 2011-12 we averaged 2045, that was because 7169 at the NDSU game at the REA. 

[gfhockey]

The crowd at the Betty isn't getting any younger

[Oxbow6]

The crowd at the Betty isn't getting any younger

They still show up thinking Boschees, Vonesh, Gulseth, et al are going come running out on the floor...

[jdub27]

They still show up thinking Boschees, Vonesh, Gulseth, et al are going come running out on the floor...

 

Would have been an big improvement on Saturday, regardless of what kind of shape they are currently in.

[bincitysioux]

Unless the City of Fargo is appropriating money to NDSU from their general fund, I don't know what difference that should make.  Grand Forks and UND have a much closer and much more symbiotic relationship than Fargo does with NDSU.  Grand Forks businesses have always massively supported UND, as the campus is such a vital part of the vitality and sustainability of Grand Forks.  And GF is growing thanks to residual impacts of the western oil boom and the emerging UAS industry, so that should help both UND and GF.

 

I do agree with your second point however; the leadership simply isn't there at UND right now.  Once Kelley retires and Faison either steps up or ships out, we can start making progress around here.

 

I think his point is that the Fargo metro is 3 times the size of GF.  It is growing probably 5 times faster than GF.  That results in significantly higher sources to draw corporate dollars from, and NDSU is doing a good job of getting those corporate dollars.  They have better attendance at alot of their sporting events, not only because they've been successful in recent years, but also because they have a much larger population base to draw fans from nearby.  They get 10,000 more people to football games than does UND.  That equates roughly $900,000 more in revenue over a six game season.  The last few seasons they've gotten about 1,300 mor per game for basketball.  That's another $200,000 a year in revenue over what we get.  Again, they have been very good the last few years so that is a big part, but so is their location. 

[fightingsioux4life]

I think his point is that the Fargo metro is 3 times the size of GF.  It is growing probably 5 times faster than GF.  That results in significantly higher sources to draw corporate dollars from, and NDSU is doing a good job of getting those corporate dollars.  They have better attendance at alot of their sporting events, not only because they've been successful in recent years, but also because they have a much larger population base to draw fans from nearby.  They get 10,000 more people to football games than does UND.  That equates roughly $900,000 more in revenue over a six game season.  The last few seasons they've gotten about 1,300 mor per game for basketball.  That's another $200,000 a year in revenue over what we get.  Again, they have been very good the last few years so that is a big part, but so is their location. 

I seem to recall a bunch of empty seats in the FFD when the Bison were 2-8 back in 2002 and 3-8 back in 2009.  Winning draws fans, makes money and pays the bills.  Losing does the opposite of those things.  If NDSU FB has a couple of subpar seasons (7-4, 6-5), a lot of bandwagon fans are going to jump ship.  Also, NDSU does a much better job at marketing than UND does and it's been this way for years.  And it needs to stop.  I am sick and tired of UND being invisible compared to the media bullhorns that NDSU has at its disposal (KFGO and KVLY in case you were wondering).

 

And if we are going to use the "Fargo is 3 times the size of Grand Forks" excuse, then we might as well give up right now because there is nothing we can do about that.  Based on that logic, our hockey program should be small potatoes compared to the Gophers, who are located in a metro area of about 3 million.  And if small, private schools like Gonzaga and Butler can make big splashes on the Division I Men's BB stage, then we can and should and must do better in MBB ourselves.  We cannot continue to come up with more and more excuses why we can't do this and can't do that and start making things happen.  And it's Faison and Kelley and the Alumni Association's job to do that.  It all starts at the top with a winning, forward-thinking, positive approach to all sports.  That is what is missing and that is what must change.

[bincitysioux]

I didn't say it can't be done or that we should give up or that we can't be successful, rather I was pointing out why there are more dollars available in Fargo.

 

You are right, winning does draw fans.  Just look at attendance numbers at the Alerus from 2001-2007 vs 2008-2014.  And the extra revenue generated from increased attendance would go a long ways toward sustaining and improving revenue.

[fightingsioux4life]

I didn't say it can't be done or that we should give up or that we can't be successful, rather I was pointing out why there are more dollars available in Fargo.

 

You are right, winning does draw fans.  Just look at attendance numbers at the Alerus from 2001-2007 vs 2008-2014.  And the extra revenue generated from increased attendance would go a long ways toward sustaining and improving revenue.

Okay, didn't mean to put words into your mouth.  I am just sick and tired of the "can't do" attitude surrounding UND athletics outside of Men's Hockey.  Once we moved up to D-I in all sports, we gave up the luxury of running D-II sports on shoestring budgets and still having lots of success.  But some people on this forum and in the UND athletic department haven't figured that out yet.  Just venting my frustrations.

[UND-FB-FAN]

I think his point is that the Fargo metro is 3 times the size of GF. It is growing probably 5 times faster than GF. That results in significantly higher sources to draw corporate dollars from, and NDSU is doing a good job of getting those corporate dollars. They have better attendance at alot of their sporting events, not only because they've been successful in recent years, but also because they have a much larger population base to draw fans from nearby. They get 10,000 more people to football games than does UND. That equates roughly $900,000 more in revenue over a six game season. The last few seasons they've gotten about 1,300 mor per game for basketball. That's another $200,000 a year in revenue over what we get. Again, they have been very good the last few years so that is a big part, but so is their location.

You do realize that many of NDSU's donors do not live in Fargo, right? It's all about reaching out and having a plan, which is something UND's athletic department is lacking in comparison to NDSU.

[CMSioux]

What is Hakstol's record before tournament play?  What is Hakstol's non-conference record?  Are fans lining up in droves to see the product that Jones puts on the floor like they do to see the product that Hakstol puts on the ice?

Oh come on - really. Now you're comparing hockey attendance to basketball attendance at a hockey school that has the best college facilities on the planet? 

[bincitysioux]

Oh come on - really. Now you're comparing hockey attendance to basketball attendance at a hockey school that has the best college facilities on the planet?

Cratter is the one that compared Jones to Hakstol, not me. I don't think it is too far fetched to think that the Sioux Center could be full every night if there was a quality product on the floor every season. It only holds 3,000 people. We used to draw that back in the early 2000's.........

[Cratter]

Cratter is the one that compared Jones to Hakstol, not me. I don't think it is too far fetched to think that the Sioux Center could be full every night if there was a quality product on the floor every season. It only holds 3,000 people. We used to draw that back in the early 2000's.........

Was that during the double header days?

Wouldn't that be equivalent to attendance now for both combined?

And more Friday Saturday games vs Thursday Saturday.

[bincitysioux]

Was that during the double header days?

Wouldn't that be equivalent to attendance now for both combined?

I suppose if you believe that 1,500 people came for the women's game, left when it was over, and a different 1,500 came for the men's game 20 minutes later.  I guess I think it is probably most of the same fans that attend the women's and men's games plus or minus 300-500 that are exclusive to one or the other.  Maybe I'm wrong I don't know. 

 

What I do know is that Grand Forks loves a winner.  In the case of football they set the attendance record in 2008 coming off of a 10 year stretch of unprecedented success for the program.  Fast forward 6 years and attendance is down 30% after suffering through years of abysmal play.

 

Men's basketball hasn't won a conference title since 1995.  That's a long time considering where this program once was at.

[CMSioux]

I suppose if you believe that 1,500 people came for the women's game, left when it was over, and a different 1,500 came for the men's game 20 minutes later.  I guess I think it is probably most of the same fans that attend the women's and men's games plus or minus 300-500 that are exclusive to one or the other.  Maybe I'm wrong I don't know. 

 

What I do know is that Grand Forks loves a winner.  In the case of football they set the attendance record in 2008 coming off of a 10 year stretch of unprecedented success for the program.  Fast forward 6 years and attendance is down 30% after suffering through years of abysmal play.

 

Men's basketball hasn't won a conference title since 1995.  That's a long time considering where this program once was at.

I'd like to see numbers when basketball played to a full house. I do remember doubleheaders where 1/3 came for the women and 2/3 came later for the men but it was never close to a full house for regular season games and that was teams that were regionally familiar - tough to compare Sacramento State to South Dakota State. (I have to shake my head how this site has become a combination of trolls and coach firing arguments - no matter what the season). 

[fightingsioux4life]

I'd like to see numbers when basketball played to a full house. I do remember doubleheaders where 1/3 came for the women and 2/3 came later for the men but it was never close to a full house for regular season games and that was teams that were regionally familiar - tough to compare Sacramento State to South Dakota State. (I have to shake my head how this site has become a combination of trolls and coach firing arguments - no matter what the season). 

Towards the end of the Glas regime, people would come to watch the women's team play (this was during their D-II power years) and then leave as the men's teams started warming up.  When both were good, I think people came for both except maybe on Friday nights when some people weren't off work soon enough to get to the women's game (which usually started at 6pm).

[bincitysioux]

I'd like to see numbers when basketball played to a full house. I do remember doubleheaders where 1/3 came for the women and 2/3 came later for the men but it was never close to a full house for regular season games and that was teams that were regionally familiar - tough to compare Sacramento State to South Dakota State. (I have to shake my head how this site has become a combination of trolls and coach firing arguments - no matter what the season). 

 

There is attendance data going back to 1992 for the men in the wiki.  Obviously the crowds were great in the early 90's when UND was getting to the Elite Eight during those years. 

 

Personally, I don't think averaging 2,500 a game in today's age for DI basketball in Grand Forks would be out of the realm of possibilities.  Assuming of course there is a consistent and quality product on the court.  I wouldn't expect a big crowd for Dickinson on Friday no matter what.  I'm guessing losing the two previous games (on television to boot) by a combined 65 points won't do much for the game day walk up either.

[UND92,96]

10 years ago, UND basketball had an average attendance of 2791 per game. A game at the Ralph against NDSU certainly helped that average, as did doubleheaders with the women's team, but nevertheless 2500-plus per game was achieved many times over the years at Hyslop. This year, the average is 1717. It has ranged from around 1600 to around 2000 for several years now. Obviously the transition really hurt things, but aren't we getting to the point where the transition is far enough in the past that it's not really an excuse anymore? Is the inability to get back to 2500 or more per game mostly the fault of Jones, Faison or both? Or is it not realistic to expect UND basketball to draw as well as it did 10-plus years ago?

[UNDBIZ]

10 years ago, UND basketball had an average attendance of 2791 per game. A game at the Ralph against NDSU certainly helped that average, as did doubleheaders with the women's team, but nevertheless 2500-plus per game was achieved many times over the years at Hyslop. This year, the average is 1717. It has ranged from around 1600 to around 2000 for several years now. Obviously the transition really hurt things, but aren't we getting to the point where the transition is far enough in the past that it's not really an excuse anymore? Is the inability to get back to 2500 or more per game mostly the fault of Jones, Faison or both? Or is it not realistic to expect UND basketball to draw as well as it did 10-plus years ago?

 

To compound things.... what has student enrollment done in the past 10 years.......

[southpaw]

10 years ago, UND basketball had an average attendance of 2791 per game. A game at the Ralph against NDSU certainly helped that average, as did doubleheaders with the women's team, but nevertheless 2500-plus per game was achieved many times over the years at Hyslop. This year, the average is 1717. It has ranged from around 1600 to around 2000 for several years now. Obviously the transition really hurt things, but aren't we getting to the point where the transition is far enough in the past that it's not really an excuse anymore? Is the inability to get back to 2500 or more per game mostly the fault of Jones, Faison or both? Or is it not realistic to expect UND basketball to draw as well as it did 10-plus years ago?

 

Why is blame only limited to Faison or Jones?  Why can't the fans be to blame for not showing up?