fightingsioux4life Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 So how did the Gophers and Denver do it back to back and BC ..... well you know. It's all luck.....c'mon Irish, haven't you learned that yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ringo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I am sick and tired of this example being used; it's pure apples and oranges. Jerry York took over a putrid Boston College program and had to rebuild it while competing with the likes of Maine and BU for talent. Of course it took him a long time to get to the level he is right now. They are the team of the 2000's. Dave Hakstol took over a program with basically a full cupboard and has underachieved with it. Just like Doug Woog did with the Goofs back in the 1980's thru the mid 1990's. Face the facts.....Hakstol hasn't gotten the job done. With all this "parity", how has Boston College won four titles since 2001 (about one every three years)? And shouldn't all that "parity" give us just as much chance to win a natty as anyone else? But Haktsol's teams have underachieved in the NCAA tournament (especially at the Frozen Four) and it is just getting old. With FU winning 3 consecutive FCS football titles, we need to do something to change the narrative around here. Winning #8 would do just that and it would have a positive impact on the campus as a whole. That is another angle that is not talked about enough. It certainly helps when your placed in the Northeast regional every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 It certainly helps when your placed in the Northeast regional every year. Don't disagree, but that has zero to do with them kicking our butts in the Frozen 4 year after year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 So how did the Gophers and Denver do it back to back and BC ..... well you know. Skill, luck, some good leadership by upper classmen, in some cases some favorable opportunities such as BC playing regionals in their backyard and Minnesota playing a Frozen 4 in their home town. Some of the same reasons that UND has won titles in the past. You named 3 other schools that belong in the same elite college hockey group as UND (along with Michigan and maybe Wisconsin). UND has won multiple titles in a relatively short period of time 3 times. 1959 and 63; 80, 82 and 87; 97 and 2000. Denver did it in 58, 60, and 61; 68 and 69; 04 and 05. Minnesota did it 74, 76, and 79; 02 and 03. BC did it in 08, 10 and 12. Michigan did it multiple times in the 50's along with 96 and 98. Other schools like Wisconsin and Lake Superior State have also won multiple titles in short periods. This tells me that when a team wins a title there is a pretty good chance of winning another pretty quickly. That's how Minnesota, Denver and BC won more than 1 in a short time. UND's turn will come again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Skill, luck, some good leadership by upper classmen, in some cases some favorable opportunities such as BC playing regionals in their backyard and Minnesota playing a Frozen 4 in their home town. Some of the same reasons that UND has won titles in the past. You named 3 other schools that belong in the same elite college hockey group as UND (along with Michigan and maybe Wisconsin). UND has won multiple titles in a relatively short period of time 3 times. 1959 and 63; 80, 82 and 87; 97 and 2000. Denver did it in 58, 60, and 61; 68 and 69; 04 and 05. Minnesota did it 74, 76, and 79; 02 and 03. BC did it in 08, 10 and 12. Michigan did it multiple times in the 50's along with 96 and 98. Other schools like Wisconsin and Lake Superior State have also won multiple titles in short periods. This tells me that when a team wins a title there is a pretty good chance of winning another pretty quickly. That's how Minnesota, Denver and BC won more than 1 in a short time. UND's turn will come again. Sorry, but I can't make any sense of the idea that championships come in bunches other than thinking that these programs had great talent during these times. We've had great talent but no championships lately (see Toews, Oshie, Duncan, Parise, etc). What are you saying that that makes me believe that we will win a bunch soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Skill, luck, some good leadership by upper classmen, in some cases some favorable opportunities such as BC playing regionals in their backyard and Minnesota playing a Frozen 4 in their home town. Some of the same reasons that UND has won titles in the past. You named 3 other schools that belong in the same elite college hockey group as UND (along with Michigan and maybe Wisconsin). UND has won multiple titles in a relatively short period of time 3 times. 1959 and 63; 80, 82 and 87; 97 and 2000. Denver did it in 58, 60, and 61; 68 and 69; 04 and 05. Minnesota did it 74, 76, and 79; 02 and 03. BC did it in 08, 10 and 12. Michigan did it multiple times in the 50's along with 96 and 98. Other schools like Wisconsin and Lake Superior State have also won multiple titles in short periods. This tells me that when a team wins a title there is a pretty good chance of winning another pretty quickly. That's how Minnesota, Denver and BC won more than 1 in a short time. UND's turn will come again. By the way, what did we make of the favorable opportunity of having a regional at the Ralph and having Holy Cross upset the Gophs in the first round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Same thing as BC did after winning the regional in Worchester, MA in 2006, they lost in the Frozen 4. BC repeated that by winning a regional in Manchester, NH in 2007 and losing in the Frozen 4. Both of those times were better than last year when they lost to Union in the first round of a regional in Providence, RI. Of course, the years they won titles in 2008, 2010 and 2012 were all years that they also played regionals in Worchester. BC played a regional in their own backyard 6 out of the last 8 years and won a national title half of the time. The only time they went away from home they lost in the regional. Playing a regional near home seems to be very helpful toward winning a national title, but it isn't a guarantee. BC did it half the time. Let me know when UND has had an opportunity at least 3 times without winning a title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes unrealistic. As Big A said, you can't compare the different eras. NCAA hockey has changed. More teams playing at a more similar level. Different type of play. As Schlossman pointed out in his column today, scoring is down significantly from when Gino and Blais coached, which means less room for error. But I realize that you don't accept any of this as the truth, you live in a world where UND is entitled to win national titles on a regular basis. I would hope we all live in the world where we expect some championships from UND - not entitled, but earned by the best team in college hockey. Anything less is a lowering of expectations. I see a lot of that around here lately. Pretty good is getting to be good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I would hope we all live in the world where we expect some championships from UND - not entitled, but earned by the best team in college hockey. Anything less is a lowering of expectations. I see a lot of that around here lately. Pretty good is getting to be good enough. Best team in college hockey by what definition? Others have more or the same number of national titles. Others have more total wins. Others have a better winning percentage. Other than a parochial view of college hockey, how are you defining best team in college hockey, and how does that earn UND more titles? It has nothing to do with lowering of expectations. It is a realization that there are other teams in a similar class, and that teams normally at a lower level also win titles from time to time. UND will win titles again in the future because they compete at the top level on a regular basis and their turn will come again as long as they continue to compete at that top level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thanks for shooting down all my duckies and bunnies that were covered in glitter............ Are we out of unicorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A HG Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 By the way, what did we make of the favorable opportunity of having a regional at the Ralph and having Holy Cross upset the Gophs in the first round? Don't forget, Wisconsin, who won that year, played both their regional and the Frozen Four in the state of Wisconsin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yababy8 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Agreed - If we added in a respectible power play we might be hard to beat. I agree. I think the path to a respectable power play is gaining the zone in good stead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yababy8 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 ahhh....you might want to rethink that one. Alright, I'll bite. Give me your team and I'll give you my comparison. Oh and I'll be judging your sportsmenship as well, so pick '07-'08 if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Here is what I have come to learn in the thread that is needed to win a Natty so far: Luck>>era of hockey>>coaching>>avoiding east regional>>more luck>>hosting a regional>>dump and chase >>skill. And if all those things fall into line you are golden and expect at least 2 Nattys within in 2-3 years. "Can't wait"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ringo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Let's just hire Scotty Bowman and be done with it:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ringo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Don't disagree, but that has zero to do with them kicking our butts in the Frozen 4 year after year I agree. I thought the St Louis FF was the one that got away. ..The next year in Denver was the most disappointing loss of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Minnesota - lucky enough to have a Frozen Four in St Paul, a nice no-call slash on Adam Hauser in OT five seconds before Maine is called for a penalty that ultimately decides the game AND... ...lucky enough to have UNH's best player injure himself in the semi-final game and not be available for the title game in year two of the back-to-back. Denver - lucky enough to miss the WCHA Final Five and STILL make the NCAA tournament. A week to rest up and get healthy while the rest of the league dukes it out in a barn-burner Final Five playoff. Wisconsin - lucky enough to have a regional in Green Bay and a Frozen Four in Milwaukee. Didn't even have to leave the state of WIsconsin. And who says some luck ISN'T needed to win a national championship? Don't forget, Wisconsin, who won that year, played both their regional and the Frozen Four in the state of Wisconsin. Were you channeling your inner "Fire Hak" thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxTupa Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I would hope we all live in the world where we expect some championships from UND - not entitled, but earned by the best team in college hockey. Anything less is a lowering of expectations. I see a lot of that around here lately. Pretty good is getting to be good enough. I think we can all agree that the winner of the Frozen 4 rarely indicates the best team in college hockey. To win a title, you have to win 4 games in a row against good competition. Was Yale the best team in the country last season? UMD in 2011? That's where a bit of luck is involved. This years team differs a little from the past few because they have a full contingent of puck-moving defensemen. They can all skate very well, and moving the puck out of the zone is more consistent as a result. The forward crew is definitely missing the likes of Miller, Matteau, and Koules. But where they lack high end skill, by the end of their college career I hope they make up for it in heart and work ethic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes unrealistic. As Big A said, you can't compare the different eras. NCAA hockey has changed. More teams playing at a more similar level. Different type of play. As Schlossman pointed out in his column today, scoring is down significantly from when Gino and Blais coached, which means less room for error. But I realize that you don't accept any of this as the truth, you live in a world where UND is entitled to win national titles on a regular basis. BC is having no trouble scoring....they seem to just be getting better. Similar to how UND was when Dean took over. I agree it's tough to compare Hak to Dean because Dean was so great. However, as one poster mentioned Hak inherited great teams and great recruits. Not to say that Hak hasn't built some darn good teams however he hasn't been able to win the big one yet. Hopefully we can get lucky sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 iftheres so much parity hows gopher have 2 nattys since Sioux last won one hows du have 2 nattys since since last won one between bc and those 2 that's 6 nattys in 13 years or almost 50 ^ some parity that is you lose I win AGAIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm feeling the need to start a new thread in the hopes of having something good to read as an alternative to the fire hak-keep hak threads that seem to be the only mid-week threads which have been getting activity recently. I'm not against fire the coach debates, it's just that it seems like the wrong time to be so focused on that now. If it was either the off-season or this year was in the tank-sure, but when we are bidding for first place in our conference, in the middle of a really impressive winning streak and in the top 14 in the nation having 'fire the coach' as the only choice for good reading on here is kind of lame. So I'll take it upon myself to remedy it. :-) There are so many things worthy of discussion going on with this years team. I've kept no secrets about the promise I see in this team. We have a bunch of guys showing really impressive play lately. Here are a couple of discussion topics that come to my mind: The make-up of our defensive core is unique in a few different ways. Our offense is driven in many ways by our blue liners. Our forwards are all developing very well. You could throw out quite a few names in a discussion about impressive development. ...So what does this team need to do to win it all. We are all gunning for #8 right? This is how I see it.. My three keys to a championship 1. Goal tending. Gothberg is the man. He needs to make a decision that he is not going to be scored on no matter what. He can get there but what does he need to get him there. Maybe Prpich should come back to town and give him a beat-down marine style and build him back up with an edge?? Hey it's a thought what can I say.. 2. Ok here is a cliche, Play with a fast pace, smart, creative, aggressive and attacking style all of the time. Chips, give and go's, forechecking, 360 spin-o-Rama's, all of it. This team is impressive pretty much all of the time when they are playing this way. When they sit back they struggle. Therefore this team should NEVER move into any kind of prevent style no matter how ahead they get in a game. Hak always talks about how the team needs to be playing on their toes and not their heels. This has never been more true than this years team. This is where some emotion is needed. I think Hak lacks the emotional offering to the team sometimes. Maybe Purp can pay him a visit too. How bout that alleged Brooks speech he gave his team back in 1980. Do you think Hak would say the "f" word?? I digress.. 3. Obtain possession in the offensive zone. Grimaldi and Mark Mac do well in the breakaway realm, as do Parks and Cags but this is not the nuts and bolts of our offensive capability. As I mentioned before, this offense is driven by its defensemen. Once we gain the zone we are good. It's getting there that the coaches and players need to perfect. We saw what can happen when we fail at this during the Sat game against Omaha. I have to offer a bonus key; When to pinch? One of the key components of our offense is pinching the defensemen up to keep the zone. We have been doing it well mostly. The challenge will be how to manage this when we play the best teams in the country in the tournament. i.e. BC and Minnesota. We haven't had to deal to much with getting burned. Omaha did it to us but that is about it. The problem is if we chose not to pinch against a great offensive team then we f-up #3 above and that would not be good. In other words the pinch is a part of what we need to accomplish #2 and #3. So what do we do? That is a tough one.. There you go. Some "stuff" to stimulate some stimulating discussion. Am I fired?? All good arguments...I'd like to add one: 4. gfhockey being named extra-special associate head coach. Let's face it...his keen insight of the game and clear knowledge of how to win championships, along with his ability to relate to the young players by teaching them the basics of jager bombs and keg stands, is what we need to put this team over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 iftheres so much parity hows gopher have 2 nattys since Sioux last won one hows du have 2 nattys since since last won one between bc and those 2 that's 6 nattys in 13 years or almost 50 ^ some parity that is you lose I win AGAIN Hilarious how you make that 2000 Sioux title sound like it happened in the era of black and white TV and wool hockey jerseys...but constantly rant about the Gopher back-to-backs of 2002 and 2003 like they happened in the last two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 iftheres so much parity hows gopher have 2 nattys since Sioux last won one hows du have 2 nattys since since last won one between bc and those 2 that's 6 nattys in 13 years or almost 50 ^ some parity that is you lose I win AGAIN Your spelling and grammar are so bad I doubt that it is simply because you are typing from your phone, however you did make a decent point there with actual facts. slightly impressed. Also, did Wisconsin win two as well or was that only one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 everyone is trying to make the argument that there is so much parity since the Sioux last won one im just arguing against it with FACTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 so I just used FACTS since the Sioux last wonone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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