UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[darell1976]

Maybe UND is looking into what Cal Poly and UC Davis is doing with football in the BSC and have all other sports in another conference. If the MVFC isn't an option (as of now) this may be a way to save money. Football in the Big Sky and all others in the Summit League.

[The Sicatoka]

5 hours ago, lawkota said:

He didn't say that, as least not how you've spun it.  "[R]ight now, for this institution, we are committed to having football".  It was in the context of conference affiliation; the gist being that when they look at conference affiliation, right now, they have to have a home for football. 

I just listened to Faison with Heitkamp (there's 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back) and what lawkota transcribes above is the quote. And the context. 

There is a world of difference between "right now" and "for now". One states the current position going forward (funding football); the other is a hedge if you think a change might happen in the near future.

Faison stated the position and then stated what comes with it (need for a football conference).  

[ArchyAlum11]

4 hours ago, darell1976 said:

Maybe UND is looking into what Cal Poly and UC Davis is doing with football in the BSC and have all other sports in another conference. If the MVFC isn't an option (as of now) this may be a way to save money. Football in the Big Sky and all others in the Summit League.

A lot of speculation but no doubt that a move to MVFC and Sumit would be a decent cost saving measure, The geographical foot print for both those confrences is mostly within bus distance from UND, and having all the Dakota Schools in the same conferance  would be good. Would be a lot easier if one of the Minnesota Schools moved up to D1 FCSthat way the conferance is still at an even number.

[SiouxVolley]

Look at a change of conference from a pure business standpoint.

The WAC and Big Sky each pay out about $1.8 million from its basketball autobid.  

But the WAC pays $257 k per member from its autobid because it only has seven members.

The BSC pays $150 k per member from its autobid as it has 12 members.

A redistributed BSC / WAC would pay out $200 k per every team (assumes Chicago St will drop out).

The NCAA pays out more than that in other assistance, but those would be approximately equal if the WAC sponsors FCS again.

If a WAC  / BSC is realigned to an approximate east / west configuration, travel costs for each would go down, probably on the order of $100 k per school.  

The WAC needs more teams now, otherwise any school losses will result in it losing its autobid.  Why wouldn't the BSC "give" six teams to the WAC in exchange for four teams to the BSC.  Each league can even have some interlocking schedules, so rivalries would not be lost.  The WAC needs schools now for its survival and the BSC would benefit financially to swap schools with them.

This hasn't even been brought up by the media and it is poo-pooed by the trolls, who refuse to acknowledge it as a possibility.

There would be no entrance or exit fees, so a conference change with the WAC would be free.  Contrast that with UND attempting to get in the Slummit/MVC and out of the Big Sky.  The price of the change could be almost $2 million in fees, which would take nearly a decade to recoup.

A financial analysis will prove these numbers, and Kennedy undoubtedly already has them.

UND will not bring up the subject of FBS until it's in the WAC.  Bringing FBS up now would bring on the wrath of Rob Port and the legislature.

UND will want a heavy research conference.  A league of UMKC, NMSU, UTRGV, MSU, UM, and UI will be greater than whats in the current BSC.

UND and other BSC schools moving to the WAC, with west coast WAC schools moving to the BSC, are almost a certainty from a business and financial perspective.  It's time this board face those facts.

[SiouxVolley]

One other thing:  the art of negotiation doesn't include making statements to the press on what you want before it's negotiated. That is an absolutely foolish thing to do if you want a bargain prices.  Kennedy knows that, as he is not negotiating, but merely putting a rubber stamp on a move too the WAC with a committee.  If he truly wanted another conference like the MVFC or Slummit, he would keep his mouth shut and not send out public emails broadcasting negotiations.

The WAC isn't a negotiation, as it has already happened.

[Siouxperman8]

4 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

One other thing:  the art of negotiation doesn't include making statements to the press on what you want before it's negotiated. That is an absolutely foolish thing to do if you want a bargain prices.  Kennedy knows that, as he is not negotiating, but merely putting a rubber stamp on a move too the WAC with a committee.  If he truly wanted another conference like the MVFC or Slummit, he would keep his mouth shut and not send out public emails broadcasting negotiations.

The WAC isn't a negotiation, as it has already happened.

A serious question - do you have any basis for saying this is going on or do you think this is what should happen?

[JohnboyND7]

1 hour ago, Siouxperman8 said:

A serious question - do you have any basis for saying this is going on or do you think this is what should happen?

Jubilee

[UNDBIZ]

Is UTRGV even a school we'd want to associate with?  It's 1 year old and its "campus" is spread across 6 cities.

[SiouxVolley]

31 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Is UTRGV even a school we'd want to associate with?  It's 1 year old and its "campus" is spread across 6 cities.

It's has an average ACT would not get into UND, but it is a part of University of Texas, which is highly esteemed as a system.  As a combination now of UTPA and UT-BROWNSVILLE, it has serious enrollment numbers.  It has a med school, law school, and engineering school and the U Texas system has an enormous funding capacity.

[Gothmog]

13 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

So you are going on record that UND wants the MVFC.

You will be highly disappointed when it you learn that UND isn't even pushing for it behind the scenes.

I'm not on the record saying that. Your AD is.

[SiouxVolley]

2 hours ago, Siouxperman8 said:

A serious question - do you have any basis for saying this is going on or do you think this is what should happen?

A President that wants to get out of the situation cheaply will not broach the subject before, unless he knows competing conferences will offer or, unless he wants to go P5, which takes a lot of political manuevers.  Now, a scenario like Chapman begging the Big Sky on a bid is not possible, because NDSU would not have gone DI without an offer.

The WAC is a case where all those negotiation rules are set aside, because the WAC and Big Sky have an existing relationship and membership swaps will be free.

 

[Gothmog]

27 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

A President that wants to get out of the situation cheaply will not broach the subject before, unless he knows competing conferences will offer or, unless he wants to go P5, which takes a lot of political manuevers.  Now, a scenario like Chapman begging the Big Sky on a bid is not possible, because NDSU would not have gone DI without an offer.

The WAC is a case where all those negotiation rules are set aside, because the WAC and Big Sky have an existing relationship and membership swaps will be free.

 

So your answer is: No, I have no basis for saying that these things are actually going on.

[SiouxVolley]

1 minute ago, Gothmog said:

So your answer is: No, I have no basis for saying that these things are actually going on.

No amount of reason would assuage you troĺls.  How is UND going to pay exit and entranice fees ?  You still haven't answered that.  

[SiouxVolley]

34 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

I'm not on the record saying that. Your AD is.

He is not going on record to bad mouth the Slummit or MVFC.  Of course he would say good things about them.  That is hardly an endorsement to go there.

[Gothmog]

12 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

No amount of reason would assuage you troĺls.  How is UND going to pay exit and entranice fees ?  You still haven't answered that.  

Try some actual evidence. You have none.

[SiouxVolley]

4 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Try some actual evidence. You have none.

Pure logical arguments don't work with trolls, which have no logic.  In contrast, Presidents and AD'S do for the most part.

You have not answered the exit and entrance fee question, because you have zilch.

[UNDBIZ]

3 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Pure logical arguments don't work with trolls, which have no logic.  In contrast, Presidents and AD'S do for the most part.

You have not answered the exit and entrance fee question, because you have zilch.

Hasn't it already been stated that the BSC exit fee will be minimal as long as UND gives adequate notice?  Shouldn't be too hard to get the Summit to waive most if not all of their entrance fee either, as that league will take whatever it can get.

[Gothmog]

6 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Pure logical arguments don't work with trolls, which have no logic.  In contrast, Presidents and AD'S do for the most part.

You have not answered the exit and entrance fee question, because you have zilch.

I don't know, I guess I tend to believe the AD of the university over some guy making wild assertions on an internet message board that he can't back up with any evidence.

Once again, facts have caught up with you. Brian Faison's interview on KFGO refutes your ridiculous theories.

[SIOUXFAN97]

15 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Hasn't it already been stated that the BSC exit fee will be minimal as long as UND gives adequate notice?  Shouldn't be too hard to get the Summit to waive most if not all of their entrance fee either, as that league will take whatever it can get.

I think that was before Idaho made und being a member a stipulation in their agreement...and yes on the other hand the slummit will soon be paying d2 schools to join their conference.

[SiouxVolley]

21 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Hasn't it already been stated that the BSC exit fee will be minimal as long as UND gives adequate notice?  Shouldn't be too hard to get the Summit to waive most if not all of their entrance fee either, as that league will take whatever it can get.

Adequate notice is two years.  Why would the Slummit waive fees when Kennedy has broadcast that a conference change could save dollars?  So a committee will look at conference change and advice.  When has that ever been done in history, unless it was already decided?

This board makes an assumption that the Big Sky vision for a research "division" and two FCS bids in separate "divisions" has failed.  It has not failed, but it is only started to get implemented.  There is a big difference.  The WAC was always part of that vision, but that part was never explicitly stated but by me..

[Gothmog]

1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

Adequate notice is two years.  Why would the Slummit waive fees when Kennedy has broadcast that a conference change could save dollars?  So a committee will look at conference change and advice.  When has that ever been done in history, unless it was already decided?

This board makes an assumption that the Big Sky vision for a research "division" and two FCS bids in separate "divisions" has failed.  It has not failed, but it is only started to get implemented.  There is a big difference.  The WAC was always part of that vision, but that part was left out.

Again, more wild assertions based on zero evidence.

[SiouxVolley]

2 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Again, more wild assertions based on zero evidence.

Wild assertions are flying around by you and others but they don't bother you.

Logic and finances will prevail.

The Big Sky'schools plans are in play, but you deny they even exist.

[Gothmog]

3 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Wild assertions are flying around by you and others but they don't bother you.

Logic and finances will prevail.

The Big Sky'schools plans are in play, but you deny they even exist.

Facts will prevail ... you have none.

[SiouxVolley]

I'm going to retire from this thread for a month or until the WAC option is plainly revealed.  The illogic here among the trolls is frightening, and many SS.come posters accept their illogic.

[JohnboyND7]

12 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

I think that was before Idaho made und being a member a stipulation in their agreement...and yes on the other hand the slummit will soon be paying d2 schools to join their conference.

I would think Idaho has nowhere else to go, and the Big Sky knows that. They can threaten to leave, but they have nowhere left to go.