UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[Bulk Truck]

Two chances slim and none! And by golly slim just left town!

[SiouxVolley]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/wayne-nelson-unds-second-year-big-sky-has-been-mixed-bag

And it’s worth noting that the Big Sky may be at the forefront of another potential shift in the college football landscape.

If the so-called Power 5 conferences — Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12 and Pac-12 — gain more autonomy and continue to distance themselves from the existing FBS ranks, a reconfiguration for the rest of college football may be in the works.

And the Big Sky ultimately could find itself at the top of the next level, joining ranks with the secondary FBS leagues — the Mountain West, the American Athletic Conference, the MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt.

Fullerton himself endorses this thread:

“The top quadrant of the FCS schools already spends more on athletics than the bottom quadrant of FBS schools right now,” Fullerton said. “We’ve already passed them.”

[SiouxVolley]

NDSU isn't out of the question to join the Big Sky, at least according to Fullerton.

Fullerton said the league is always considering expansion for the 12-team league (13 for football).

“There are some schools out there that we monitor,” he said. “And if we’re ever able to create that merger piece, I think we might get to 16 schools.”

Well, that leads to this possibility: Would one of those schools be North Dakota State?

The Big Sky turned down NDSU once before. It won’t do it again.

[darell1976]

NDSU isn't out of the question to join the Big Sky, at least according to Fullerton.

BV would explode if NDSU dumped the MVFC for the Big Sky. Travel expenses would be outrageous, even though that was not an issue when they tried the first two times to get in.

[JohnboyND7]

BV would explode if NDSU dumped the MVFC for the Big Sky. Travel expenses would be outrageous, even though that was not an issue when they tried the first two times to get in.

Rather sneak into the MVC just like any school would. But football drives the bus...The Big Sky would probably accept NDSU considering the current environment.

[darell1976]

Rather sneak into the MVC just like any school would. But football drives the bus...The Big Sky would probably accept NDSU considering the current environment.

NDSU will never get into the MVC. There are schools ahead of you they would choose before you guys...like your rivals to the south of you to name one.

[dmksioux]

Fullerton said the league is always considering expansion for the 12-team league (13 for football).

“There are some schools out there that we monitor,” he said. “And if we’re ever able to create that merger piece, I think we might get to 16 schools.”

In the above excerpt from the Herald article, Fullerton says "if we're ever able to complete that merger piece, I think we might be able to get to 16 schools."

What merger piece is he referring to? Is it SiouxVolley's theory on the Sunbelt? Is he looking at a merger with another FCS conference? Am I reading to much into that comment?

[Bulk Truck]

NDSU will never get into the MVC. There are schools ahead of you they would choose before you guys...like your rivals to the south of you to name one.

Never is a pretty strong word, but even a blind pig can find an acorn once in awhile so even though I have disagreed with darell and my other brother Darell many times, I have to say he nailed it on his comment about NDSU in the MVC. That's not a long term solution to anything it's primary focus is basketball. NDSU and SDSU have taken bold steps before on a unified basis. They no longer HAVE to be linked at the hip in order to move forward.

[Bulk Truck]

Fullerton said the league is always considering expansion for the 12-team league (13 for football).

“There are some schools out there that we monitor,” he said. “And if we’re ever able to create that merger piece, I think we might get to 16 schools.”

In the above excerpt from the Herald article, Fullerton says "if we're ever able to complete that merger piece, I think we might be able to get to 16 schools."

What merger piece is he referring to? Is it SiouxVolley's theory on the Sunbelt? Is he looking at a merger with another FCS conference? Am I reading to much into that comment?

Fullerton is in large measure a big bag of wind and likes to hear himself talk. The former AD from Montana Jim O'Day would

make a far better commissioner of the BSC.

[NDSU grad]

Fullerton said the league is always considering expansion for the 12-team league (13 for football).

“There are some schools out there that we monitor,” he said. “And if we’re ever able to create that merger piece, I think we might get to 16 schools.”

In the above excerpt from the Herald article, Fullerton says "if we're ever able to complete that merger piece, I think we might be able to get to 16 schools."

What merger piece is he referring to? Is it SiouxVolley's theory on the Sunbelt? Is he looking at a merger with another FCS conference? Am I reading to much into that comment?

I think he's referring to a merger between FCS and the G5.

[Bulk Truck]

I think he's referring to a merger between FCS and the G5.

NDSU grad? Now there is a contradiction in terms in the eyes of some! There will only be movement between the have nots in FBS and the upper echelon in FCS if it is driven by the number of scholarships. 63 to 85, 85 to 75, or something along that line. Now this is IMO only, not gospel as darell would espouse.

[#MACtion]

http://www.grandfork...-been-mixed-bag

Fullerton himself endorses this thread:

http://www.grandfork...-been-mixed-bag

Fullerton himself endorses this thread:

Fullerton can say whatever he wants, but he is sorely mistaken if he thinks the Mountain West doesn't want to distance themself from the Big Sky in the same manner that the PAC12 does with the MWC.

[#MACtion]

http://www.usatoday....ID=mog1rtu2y0m6

The Big Sky compares favorably in revenues to Sun Belt and MAC schools but yet is FCS. Going FBS isn't that much of a stretch, if some stadiums can be brought up to 18-20,000.

Not really...

[UNDColorado]

Not really...

I have looked at athletic budgets from MAC schools and they do not look much different from most Big Sky Schools...These numbers were from USA Today so trying to refute them is pointless.

[darell1976]

Not really...

Maybe he should have said the BSC compares favorably in football attendance to the MAC.

[SiouxVolley]

Fullerton can say whatever he wants, but he is sorely mistaken if he thinks the Mountain West doesn't want to distance themself from the Big Sky in the same manner that the PAC12 does with the MWC.

Of course the MWC wouldn't want an FBS Big Sky. But a PAC12 would love to see a Big Sky FBS conference for the same reason the Big10 has formalized a scheduling agreement with the MAC. The Big10 needs to MAC to provide 7th home games. The PAC12 needs a league that it can get home FBS games routinely. If the MAC wasn't in the Big 10 footprint, the Big 10 never would have proposed banning FBS/FCS games. The MAC serves as a little brother to the Big10 and the PAC12 needs its own little brother for scheduling.

The MWC and AAC don't provide scheduling services at the prices the SEC/ACC/Big12/Pac12 want, so the PAC12 views the MWC more as an irritant.

[#MACtion]

Of course the MWC wouldn't want an FBS Big Sky. But a PAC12 would love to see a Big Sky FBS conference for the same reason the Big10 has formalized a scheduling agreement with the MAC. The Big10 needs to MAC to provide 7th home games. The PAC12 needs a league that it can get home FBS games routinely. If the MAC wasn't in the Big 10 footprint, the Big 10 never would have proposed banning FBS/FCS games. The MAC serves as a little brother to the Big10 and the PAC12 needs its own little brother for scheduling.

The MWC and AAC don't provide scheduling services at the prices the SEC/ACC/Big12/Pac12 want, so the PAC12 views the MWC more as an irritant.

PAC12 and others are choosing to no longer play FCS conferences such as the Big Sky because it hurts strength of schedule for the College Football Playoff. The MWC, MAC, AAC etc.. are doing the same as we are all working toward the Access Bowl for our champ which pays our conference a huge bonus. FBS will phase out FCS games going forward I think. That is also driving up demand for FBS conferences.

http://msn.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/million-dollars-baby-cost-of-big-ten-opponents-keeps-rising-060414

Arkansas State has already stated they will not and the AAC is also talking of making a conference rule on it. The G5 teams are also worried about strength of schedule as much as the P5 conferences as we are all fighting for the $18 million "Access Bowl" (Fiesta, Cotton, Peach) that is awarded to the highest ranked G5 team. FCS teams will largely only be playing other FCS teams moving forward.

The G5 has plenty of OOC scheduling options that don't include anymore FCS teams. First, G5 is also considering 9-game conference models. Secondly, the P5 are all knocking on our doors to schedule us and bidding up the price because they can no longer schedule FCS teams going forward. Lastly, G5 teams can schedule each other easily. SOS will drive this.

Terry Mohajir also told the Gazette that Arkansas State will not schedule FCS teams moving forward due to strength of schedule concerns.

“It’s about the ratings at the end of the year,” Mohajir said. “The way the new selection committee is going to work, if you have an FCS win, it won’t help you. It can hurt you, especially when they’re getting down to comparing schedules. If you lose to one, it’ll kill you.”

http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/05/arkansas-state-iowa-state-schedule-2024-25-football-series/

How will the teams that are not in the playoff be selected for the other bowls that make up this new arrangement?

The highest ranked champion of the other five Football Bowl Subdivision conferences (the American Athletic, Conference-USA, Mid-American, Mountain West and Sun Belt), as determined by the selection committee, will play in one of the six New Year's bowls

Among the many factors the committee will consider are win-loss record, strength of schedule, head-to-head results, comparison of results against common opponents and conference championships.

http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/story?id=10328143

The same selection committee that determines the top 4 teams for the College Football Playoff also selects the top G5 team for the "Access" Bowl. The payout for that bowl is somewhere around $18 million payed to the conference who sends the team to the Fiesta/Cotton/Peach Bowl, so the conferences (MAC, SBC, AAC, MWC, CUSA) have incentive to increase SOS or make rules regarding SOS just as the BIG/SEC/ACC/B12/PAC are concentrating on SOS. Same Committee, same criteria, lots of money at stake.

Before NIU lost in the MAC Championship game this year to Bowling Green, there was a lot of discussion if NIU or Fresno State deserves to be ranked higher and go to Fiesta Bowl. The first time a G5 Champ narrowly gets snubbed for the $12 million Fiesta Bowl because the excuse is made they had a weaker schedule than all out-of-conference scheduling will be examined and scrutinized both at the individual school and conference level. There is only 1 strip of bacon at the breakfast table for 5 conferences and we are all fighting over it.

As far as the Big Sky and MWC ever being on equal ground, that just isn't going to happen and why would it? The MWC and MAC and AAC have invested too much money and sweat-equity to ever contemplate dropping down for charity and the BSC already had its chance to merge with the WAC and your schools said no to playing FBS and investing the money in capital and 44 additional scholarships (Title IX).

NIU has proven two years straight if you win in the MAC you'll be rated higher than the AAC (UCF) and MWC (Fresno).

[SiouxVolley]

PAC12 and others are choosing to no longer play FCS conferences such as the Big Sky because it hurts strength of schedule for the College Football Playoff. The MWC, MAC, AAC etc.. are doing the same as we are all working toward the Access Bowl for our champ which pays our conference a huge bonus. FBS will phase out FCS games going forward I think. That is also driving up demand for FBS conferences.

http://msn.foxsports...s-rising-060414

Arkansas State has already stated they will not and the AAC is also talking of making a conference rule on it. The G5 teams are also worried about strength of schedule as much as the P5 conferences as we are all fighting for the $18 million "Access Bowl" (Fiesta, Cotton, Peach) that is awarded to the highest ranked G5 team. FCS teams will largely only be playing other FCS teams moving forward.

The G5 has plenty of OOC scheduling options that don't include anymore FCS teams. First, G5 is also considering 9-game conference models. Secondly, the P5 are all knocking on our doors to schedule us and bidding up the price because they can no longer schedule FCS teams going forward. Lastly, G5 teams can schedule each other easily. SOS will drive this.

Terry Mohajir also told the Gazette that Arkansas State will not schedule FCS teams moving forward due to strength of schedule concerns.

“It’s about the ratings at the end of the year,” Mohajir said. “The way the new selection committee is going to work, if you have an FCS win, it won’t help you. It can hurt you, especially when they’re getting down to comparing schedules. If you lose to one, it’ll kill you.”

http://www.fbschedul...ootball-series/

How will the teams that are not in the playoff be selected for the other bowls that make up this new arrangement?

The highest ranked champion of the other five Football Bowl Subdivision conferences (the American Athletic, Conference-USA, Mid-American, Mountain West and Sun Belt), as determined by the selection committee, will play in one of the six New Year's bowls

Among the many factors the committee will consider are win-loss record, strength of schedule, head-to-head results, comparison of results against common opponents and conference championships.

http://www.collegefo...ory?id=10328143

The same selection committee that determines the top 4 teams for the College Football Playoff also selects the top G5 team for the "Access" Bowl. The payout for that bowl is somewhere around $18 million payed to the conference who sends the team to the Fiesta/Cotton/Peach Bowl, so the conferences (MAC, SBC, AAC, MWC, CUSA) have incentive to increase SOS or make rules regarding SOS just as the BIG/SEC/ACC/B12/PAC are concentrating on SOS. Same Committee, same criteria, lots of money at stake.

Before NIU lost in the MAC Championship game this year to Bowling Green, there was a lot of discussion if NIU or Fresno State deserves to be ranked higher and go to Fiesta Bowl. The first time a G5 Champ narrowly gets snubbed for the $12 million Fiesta Bowl because the excuse is made they had a weaker schedule than all out-of-conference scheduling will be examined and scrutinized both at the individual school and conference level. There is only 1 strip of bacon at the breakfast table for 5 conferences and we are all fighting over it.

As far as the Big Sky and MWC ever being on equal ground, that just isn't going to happen and why would it? The MWC and MAC and AAC have invested too much money and sweat-equity to ever contemplate dropping down for charity and the BSC already had its chance to merge with the WAC and your schools said no to playing FBS and investing the money in capital and 44 additional scholarships (Title IX).

NIU has proven two years straight if you win in the MAC you'll be rated higher than the AAC (UCF) and MWC (Fresno).

The PAC12 is not forbidding their schools from playing FCS ones. Utah and Washington have upcoming games against UND, so unless the Big Sky moves to FBS, UND will be FCS when they play. The PAC12 needs a scheduling conference like the Big 10 has with the MAC, so the PAC12 will support a Big Sky move to FBS.

I've never stated that the Big Sky will be "equal" to the MWC, any more that I stated the MAC is equal to the Big 10. What is true is that the Big 10 will protect the MAC's FBS status because the Big 10 needs MAC schools as their 7th home games. The Big 10 would have never proposed dropping FCS schools from the schedule, because the MAC serves as a high FCS conference when it is an FBS conference in name.

No Ill will leave the MAC for a better conference as soon as it gets a chance (it left before and it will leave again like Marshall). I am in no way slamming the MAC and have a high degree of respect for Miami's football history as the cradle of coaches. But many of the schools in the MAC (Ball St, Bowling Green, EMU, Kent St) will be for the forseeable future just placeholders for Big 10 games and are just shells of their past. North Dakota will soon be the per capita national leader in income and will gain a lot of people and academic wealth. UCF, USF,UTSA, Charlotte, et al will not forbidden to move to FBS, and that will be true to UND and the Big Sky. The NCAA behaves to accommodate wealth: thirty years ago North Dakota was a backwater state and now its at the forefront of change.

[FSSD]

Not really...

UND's books look much better than Miami or NIU..

UND Total Revenue - $22 m - $11 m from subsidy NOTE: Ticket Sales - $4 m

UM Total Revenue - $28 m - $20 m from subsidy NOTE: Ticket Sales - $1.2 m

N. Ill Total Revenue - $26 m - $17.5 m from subsidy NOTE: Ticket Sales - $2.2 m

[Bulk Truck]

The longer out into the future any FCS football program schedules an FBS team the greater the potential risk of a buyout of the contract. UND's overall financial picture is unlike many other programs unless they have hockey. Their football picture is down somewhat now so that isn't a fair component in making comparisons either. UND's hockey program is comparable or above any hockey program in the NCAA. It deserves the best. IMO!

[Bulk Truck]

The PAC12 is not forbidding their schools from playing FCS ones. Utah and Washington have upcoming games against UND, so unless the Big Sky moves to FBS, UND will be FCS when they play. The PAC12 needs a scheduling conference like the Big 10 has with the MAC, so the PAC12 will support a Big Sky move to FBS.

I've never stated that the Big Sky will be "equal" to the MWC, any more that I stated the MAC is equal to the Big 10. What is true is that the Big 10 will protect the MAC's FBS status because the Big 10 needs MAC schools as their 7th home games. The Big 10 would have never proposed dropping FCS schools from the schedule, because the MAC serves as a high FCS conference when it is an FBS conference in name.

No Ill will leave the MAC for a better conference as soon as it gets a chance (it left before and it will leave again like Marshall). I am in no way slamming the MAC and have a high degree of respect for Miami's football history as the cradle of coaches. But many of the schools in the MAC (Ball St, Bowling Green, EMU, Kent St) will be for the forseeable future just placeholders for Big 10 games and are just shells of their past. North Dakota will soon be the per capita national leader in income and will gain a lot of people and academic wealth. UCF, USF,UTSA, Charlotte, et al will not forbidden to move to FBS, and that will be true to UND and the Big Sky. The NCAA behaves to accommodate wealth: thirty years ago North Dakota was a backwater state and now its at the forefront of change.

I am in full agreement with the third to the last sentence and the last sentence in the final paragraph.

[SIOUXFAN97]

UND's books look much better than Miami or NIU..

UND Total Revenue - $22 m - $11 m from subsidy NOTE: Ticket Sales - $4 m

UM Total Revenue - $28 m - $20 m from subsidy NOTE: Ticket Sales - $1.2 m

N. Ill Total Revenue - $26 m - $17.5 m from subsidy NOTE: Ticket Sales - $2.2 m

love it when people use facts...

[#MACtion]

love it when people use facts...

We were talking MAC vs Big Sky and nearly all of UND's $ is NCHC related.

[UNDColorado]

We were talking MAC vs Big Sky and nearly all of UND's $ is NCHC related.

Nearly all? Care to break that blanket statement down?

[#MACtion]

Nearly all? Care to break that blanket statement down?

North Dakota

Men's Teams - Women's Teams - Total

Basketball $1,078,927 $1,088,751 $2,167,678

Football $3,181,952 $3,181,952

Total Revenues of all Sports, Except Football and Basketball, Combined $4,058,721 $4,439,199 $8,497,920

Total Revenues Men's and Women's Teams $8,319,600 $5,527,950 $13,847,550

Not Allocated by Gender/Sport $6,586,381

Grand Total for all Teams (includes by team and not allocated by gender/sport)

$20,433,931

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

There is no GAAP for individual public schools that I'm aware of except for some state rules like in Virginia where the marching band, cheerleading expenses etc.. must be included in athletic budgets where most place else don't include that, but we can get an idea from the data. This information filed says "revenue" but it is really a small number of ticket sales for football and basketball and then subsidy and student fees plugging the hole to make up the rest of the "revenue". UND hockey (NCHC) falls into the "other revenue except football and basketball" and represents $4 million which is probably true ticket revenue (10,000 average fans per game x $30 ticket x home games roughy $4 million). The other $6.5 million not allocated to a sport is likely capital buildings and maintenance etc... that is likely related to the Ralph and hockey stuff in the majority.

The $1 million for basketball and $3 million for football is typical for and related to Big Sky and is much lower that typical MAC which is $3 million for basketball and $7 million for football. Half of UND's athletic budget is going toward Hockey.