What conference will the other Dakotas be in 2015?

[bincitysioux]

BREAKING NEWS ABOUT THE DAKOTA SCHOOLS FROM THE GF HERALD!!!!!!!!!

Dakota schools forming new athletic conference

[North Dakota]

BREAKING NEWS ABOUT THE DAKOTA SCHOOLS FROM THE GF HERALD!!!!!!!!!

Dakota schools forming new athletic conference

HAHA you got me! I suppose the legislature may try to force UND and NDSU into NAIA to renew the rivalry!

[The Sicatoka]

BREAKING NEWS ABOUT THE DAKOTA SCHOOLS FROM THE GF HERALD!!!!!!!!!

Dakota schools forming new athletic conference

... any port in a storm.

[SiouxVolley]

Reading BIsonville is just hilarious. Some SDSU fans there are saying that UND fans are the ones making up issues about how the Summit has major problems, yet these same SDSU fans weren't even aware that the Summit is already in the grace period for baseball (and the Summit has to have six full DI teams in baseball and men's soccer to continue as an NCAA conference, as well as seven DI full members).

So if Oakland is going to the Horizon for next season ...

the the Summit will be down to four DI baseball teams (NDSU, SDSU, WIU, and IPFW, as Omaha won't count for two more years), which means ...

The Summit's grace period for baseball becomes forfeited, as no conference can fall two teams below the minimum and be eligible for a grace period ....

Which means the Summit becomes officially defunct in the eyes of the NCAA after July 1st.

Which means by July 1 the Summit has to either offer NJIT full membership to get back to 5, or get down on hands and knees and beg UND to join for baseball only. Maybe UND can demand a few goodies: like all baseball travel paid for by the Summit and all of NDSU/SDSU/USD must agree to a permanent arrangement for football scheduling in order for UND to join for baseball only and save the Summit.

[jdub27]

Reading BIsonville is just hilarious. Some SDSU fans there are saying that UND fans are the ones making up issues about how the Summit has major problems, yet these same SDSU fans weren't even aware that the Summit is already in the grace period for baseball (and the Summit has to have six full DI teams in baseball and men's soccer to continue as an NCAA conference, as well as seven DI full members).

So if Oakland is going to the Horizon for next season ...

the the Summit will be down to four DI baseball teams (NDSU, SDSU, WIU, and IPFW, as Omaha won't count for two more years), which means ...

The Summit's grace period for baseball becomes forfeited, as no conference can fall two teams below the minimum and be eligible for a grace period ....

Which means the Summit becomes officially defunct in the eyes of the NCAA after July 1st.

Which means by July 1 the Summit has to either offer NJIT full membership to get back to 5, or get down on hands and knees and beg UND to join for baseball only. Maybe UND can demand a few goodies: like all baseball travel paid for by the Summit and all of NDSU/SDSU/USD must agree to a permanent arrangement for football scheduling in order for UND to join for baseball only and save the Summit.

Are you sure that one sport losing its autobid defuncts a conference? I haven't saw the NCAA rule that explains that part, just what is needed to keep an autobid.

[Bison Dan]

Reading BIsonville is just hilarious. Some SDSU fans there are saying that UND fans are the ones making up issues about how the Summit has major problems, yet these same SDSU fans weren't even aware that the Summit is already in the grace period for baseball (and the Summit has to have six full DI teams in baseball and men's soccer to continue as an NCAA conference, as well as seven DI full members).

So if Oakland is going to the Horizon for next season ...

the the Summit will be down to four DI baseball teams (NDSU, SDSU, WIU, and IPFW, as Omaha won't count for two more years), which means ...

The Summit's grace period for baseball becomes forfeited, as no conference can fall two teams below the minimum and be eligible for a grace period ....

Which means the Summit becomes officially defunct in the eyes of the NCAA after July 1st.

Which means by July 1 the Summit has to either offer NJIT full membership to get back to 5, or get down on hands and knees and beg UND to join for baseball only. Maybe UND can demand a few goodies: like all baseball travel paid for by the Summit and all of NDSU/SDSU/USD must agree to a permanent arrangement for football scheduling in order for UND to join for baseball only and save the Summit.

If I was you I'd worry more about the poor performance of all your sports it's first year in the BSC.

[zonadub]

Reading BIsonville is just hilarious. Some SDSU fans there are saying that UND fans are the ones making up issues about how the Summit has major problems, yet these same SDSU fans weren't even aware that the Summit is already in the grace period for baseball (and the Summit has to have six full DI teams in baseball and men's soccer to continue as an NCAA conference, as well as seven DI full members).

So if Oakland is going to the Horizon for next season ...

the the Summit will be down to four DI baseball teams (NDSU, SDSU, WIU, and IPFW, as Omaha won't count for two more years), which means ...

The Summit's grace period for baseball becomes forfeited, as no conference can fall two teams below the minimum and be eligible for a grace period ....

Which means the Summit becomes officially defunct in the eyes of the NCAA after July 1st.

Which means by July 1 the Summit has to either offer NJIT full membership to get back to 5, or get down on hands and knees and beg UND to join for baseball only. Maybe UND can demand a few goodies: like all baseball travel paid for by the Summit and all of NDSU/SDSU/USD must agree to a permanent arrangement for football scheduling in order for UND to join for baseball only and save the Summit.

Unless NDSU (or one of their conference-mates) renames their teams after an indigenous people, the NCAA will look the other way as long as the Summit has anyone even sniffing to join the league. Like the minimum attandance rule for FBS football (see Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan & Idaho), the NCAA will not de-commission someone who is already in place. The threat will hang over the Summit's collective heads and warnings will be issued, but nothing will happen. The Summit will survive if they want to, or will merge with someone like the WAC or split into pieces to join multiple conferences.

[SiouxVolley]

Are you sure that one sport losing its autobid defuncts a conference? I haven't saw the NCAA rule that explains that part, just what is needed to keep an autobid.

A multisports conference has to sponsor either (a) men's basketball and men's football, or (b) men's basketball and two other men's team sports (like soccer, baseball, lacrosse, volleyball, hockey, water polo). Men's individual sports like cross country, track, wrestling, golf, tennis, even if they have team scores, can't count. If basketball drops to five full DI members, or the other two designated men's sports drop to four full DI members, the conference automatically loses it's recognition, as grace periods are not given for having two schools beneath the minimum (being one short of the minimum allows a two year grace period). The Summit could still get an autobid for men's soccer, and the women's teams sports, but lose its basketball bid and baseball autobid.

[SiouxVolley]

Unless NDSU (or one of their conference-mates) renames their teams after an indigenous people, the NCAA will look the other way as long as the Summit has anyone even sniffing to join the league. Like the minimum attandance rule for FBS football (see Central Michigan, Idaho), the NCAA will not de-commission someone who is already in place. The threat will hang over the Summit's collective heads and warnings will be issued, but nothing will happen. The Summit will survive if they want to, or will merge with someone like the WAC or split into pieces to join multiple conferences.

I think the big schools want to get rid of a few of the smaller conferences, as the Big East splitting takes one more at-large bid away. What the big schools want, they get. In an earlier time, I think you'd be right, but in this case it would mean more $'s to the big conferences. They want to squeeze that money turnip dry. Keeping Eastern Michigan and Idaho in FBS is actually advantageous, as it supplies more teams that will accept guarantee games, lowering the price.

The NCAA enforced the grace rule against the CHA (only five schools are needed for an autobid in hockey, and the CHA couldn't get back to 5 schools), so its not like there isn't precedent.

[SiouxVolley]

If I was you I'd worry more about the poor performance of all your sports it's first year in the BSC.

When you are conference-less, exactly how well will recruiting go? But, I forget, buttfootball. That's all that matters. If all you had was the MVFC, you'd be fine with that I'm sure.

[UNDBIZ]

If I was you I'd worry more about the poor performance of all your sports it's first year in the BSC.

You're right, if only we'd finished 2nd in MBB instead of 3rd.... then we'd be a great success. Sorry your conference is falling apart, you can head on back to bville now.

[darell1976]

You're right, if only we'd finished 2nd in MBB instead of 3rd.... then we'd be a great success. Sorry your conference is falling apart, you can head on back to bville now.

Butt2009dance, buttrpi, buttDouple. Lol!!

[FargoBison]

The rule Siouxvolley is talking is not a set in firm thing, if you are showing progress you can get more leeway.

I do disagree with some of what has been said at Bisonville. I'm not very satisfied with the Summit right now if Oakland does indeed leave, if it happens the league is in no way better than the Big Sky which some fans seem to be convinced of over there.

[SiouxVolley]

Here's an interesting story of how NCAA rules force conferences to make absurd geographical moves. The illustration is the DIII Great South conference, but it proves how even minor conferences in DIII have to go to extreme lengths to protect their autobids (the NCAA isn't interested in giving exemptions or extending grace periods). The Summit League had options later last year, prior to UTPA, Bakersfield, UVA, and Chicago St all being absorbed into the WAC, but now only NJIT can be their savior.

http://deadspin.com/5978363/how-the-ncaa-causes-gigantism-the-story-of-the-small-regional-conference-that-swallowed-up-the-continent

[SiouxVolley]

The rule Siouxvolley is talking is not a set in firm thing, if you are showing progress you can get more leeway.

Losing Oakland in baseball is not progress, so don't see how the Summit can argue for more leeway. NJIT or some one else playing baseball needs to be on board by July 1st.

I do disagree with some of what has been said at Bisonville. I'm not very satisfied with the Summit right now if Oakland does indeed leave, if it happens the league is in no way better than the Big Sky which some fans seem to be convinced of over there.

Really admire your courage for stating this, but me thinks you'll be torn apart by SDSU fans. They just seem oblivious to the problems the Summit faces. NJIT could well be an answer, but they might have other options before the whole cascade of the Big East splitting hits other smaller conferences.

[GeauxSioux]

FYI... Live Chat has started... http://undhockey.areavoices.com/?p=94301

[darell1976]

Losing Oakland in baseball is not progress, so don't see how the Summit can argue for more leeway. NJIT or some one else playing baseball needs to be on board by July 1st.

Really admire your courage for stating this, but me thinks you'll be torn apart by SDSU fans. They just seem oblivious to the problems the Summit faces. NJIT could well be an answer, but they might have other options before the whole cascade of the Big East splitting hits other smaller conferences.

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/65690/

Douple said Northern Colorado was discussed more on a league-wide basis.

“One of the concerns with Northern Colorado was the distance, it scared some of our members to add them as an affiliate,” Douple said.

If the SL teams don't want to travel to Greeley they won't want to travel to NJIT or Utah Valley. Of course people do things out of desperation.

[Dagger]

With the losses the Summit have taken like Oral Roberts and probably Oakland, and the slippery slope the Summit is standing on, the Bison fans who ridicule the Big Sky might want to be a little careful. Their statements might come back to bite them. The perception they have about how much better the Summit is over the Big Sky might need a little reevaluating.

[darell1976]

With the losses the Summit have taken like Oral Roberts and probably Oakland, and the slippery slope the Summit is standing on, the Bison fans who ridicule the Big Sky might want to be a little careful. Their statements might come back to bite them. The perception they have about how much better the Summit is over the Big Sky might need a little reevaluating.

They are mad that their former conference mates are moving to greener pastures while they, the Jacks, and the Yotes are missing the trail. They got pissed when UNC went to the BSC and they didn't, they got mad they didn't get chosen for the MVC. Seems the whole we are a mighty football school so you must kneel to us, doesn't work in a non-football conference (Horizon, MVC).

[FargoBison]

The SD schools are infatuated with Summit because of the tournament being in SF. That does nothing for any other school in the league but it is a big deal for them because they have been trying to build up their presence in Sioux Falls ever since going DI. The Summit has way more value to them than any other conference.

I do think the league has a plan in place so it won't lose its autobid but the conference cannot lose another school besides Oakland.

[darell1976]

The SD schools are infatuated with Summit because of the tournament being in SF. That does nothing for any other school in the league but it is a big deal for them because they have been trying to build up their presence in Sioux Falls ever since going DI. The Summit has way more value to them than any other conference.

I do think the league has a plan in place so it won't lose its autobid but the conference cannot lose another school besides Oakland.

I think GT has a plan too and it doesn't include being connected with SDSU at the hip. If NDSU had a chance to bolt and if they (the new conference) didn't want SDSU, the Bison would drop Douple and the Jacks in a heartbeat.

[bincitysioux]

With UMKC and Oakland leaving, and the possibility that the Horizon may take a couple more schools down the road, doesn't the Summit really need to reach out to Chicago St.? I know they are terrible, both athletically and academically, but they have baseball, they are full-fledged DI school, geographically they are about as close to the center of the footprint as a school can get, located at a major airport hub. I know they recently committed to the WAC, but surely CSU is not looking forward to the travel that will require.

As of now, the Summit will be an 8 team league including Denver. DU will be joining its third conference in 3 years this season. I doubt that the conference brass is counting on them being a member for the long term.

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but at this point, even the most ardent XDSU fan has to admit that Douple really screwed the pooch when he filed North Dakota's application in his desk drawer at the same time that he accepted USD's. Back then, UND would have been all over the Summit, even without the MVFC offer.

[SiouxVolley]

Guess I was bored tonight so looked up issues around the Grace Period for Summit League baseball. The NCAA regulations clearly state that the Summit League will lose its auto bid for baseball if it falls below five members. When Oakland leaves, that means that the Summit League has to have another baseball member in place before July 1st, 2013. If the Summit League doesn't have a fifth baseball team in place by July 1st, the Summit League will also be in violation of not meeting the requirements of a Multisport conference (not having two men's team championships other than basketball that compete for NCAA autobids), which means the conference could lose their right to a men's basketball bid.

31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements, Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball.

31.3.4.4.1 Multi-Sport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particular

sport, a multi-sport conference (see Bylaw 20.02.5) must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and

must include six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together. (Revised:

4/27/00, 10/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 8/5/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

31.3.4.4.2 Single-Sport Conference. To be considered for automatic qualification in a particular sport,

a single-sport member conference for a sport sponsored by less than 50 percent of the Division I membership must include six institutions that have conducted conference competition together the preceding two years in the sport in question at the Division I level. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years

following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

So if baseball drops to four, Summit baseball no longer has an autobid, and the Summit League now is put on the clock for its men's basketball autobid.

Here's the definition of a multi-sport conference, which the Summit League would no longer meet because of baseball.

20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this

section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven

active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that

sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted:

1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;

(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In

addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A

minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor

five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and

c) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball.

In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A

minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor

five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an

emerging sport for women).

At best, the Summit League would have two years of grace to correct the lack of baseball (or it could offer another men's sport like hockey) or it could take football in house and add two more teams, otherwise the Summit League would be defunct in the eyes of the NCAA.

20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years

following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

[darell1976]

Guess I was bored tonight so looked up issues around the Grace Period for Summit League baseball. The NCAA regulations clearly state that the Summit League will lose its auto bid for baseball if it falls below five members. When Oakland leaves, that means that the Summit League has to have another baseball member in place before July 1st, 2013. If the Summit League doesn't have a fifth baseball team in place by July 1st, the Summit League will also be in violation of not meeting the requirements of a Multisport conference (not having two men's team championships other than basketball that compete for NCAA autobids), which means the conference could lose their right to a men's basketball bid.

So if baseball drops to four, Summit baseball no longer has an autobid, and the Summit League now is put on the clock for its men's basketball autobid.

Here's the definition of a multi-sport conference, which the Summit League would no longer meet because of baseball.

At best, the Summit League would have two years of grace to correct the lack of baseball (or it could offer another men's sport like hockey) or it could take football in house and add two more teams, otherwise the Summit League would be defunct in the eyes of the NCAA.

If Oakland leaves that drops the league to 4....that means the SL would have a 2 year grace period so don't they have til 2015 to fill the void?

[SiouxVolley]

If Oakland leaves that drops the league to 4....that means the SL would have a 2 year grace period so don't they have til 2015 to fill the void?

That would mean they have through 2014-15 to fill the void, assuming that they don't lose more schools or add more schools. Adding DII schools won't do them any good. Omaha's baseball when it becomes eligible would only get them to 5, which wouldn't add them any time.

Right now, the whole situation can be corrected by adding two baseballs school by July 1st.

If the Horizon adds either WIU or IPFW, then not only would baseball be down to three, but the Summit league would be down to six DI active teams and be on a grace period for that reason too. Losing two more members without any kind of replacement would kill the league.

If the Summit can add Chicago St and NJIT, it would avoid any kind of grace period and provide a lot more insurance that the Summit can survive with at least 7 members by the time Omaha is fully DI. The Summit really is in a bind unless it can add Big Sky or WAC members.