Question on the D

[watchmaker49]

Do you think that maybe the problem with the d is that they are not suited to what Bubba is trying to do? Better words when he has a hand in recruiting new d will they be more in line with his style? Makes sense but I would like to hear other's thoughts on this.

[Snake]

Hard to say, but I'd think he should be able to fit the system to the talent for the time being until he gets "his type" of guys in there. The trouble with the "doesn't have his guys" theory is what about the incoming recruits? He didn't have a hand in them, either. This could be a 3-4 year process if that's how we want to look at it.

There is plenty of evidence that these guys can play sound D. One would only need to pull up some film from last season to see what might work. To me it's up to the coach to put the players in the best position to be successful.

[yzerman19]

Good D is about gap management, clearing out the front of the net, solid boards play, and making excellent outlet passes.

You hold your own blue line against attacking forwards, and you hold the offensive zone from the point.

[90siouxfan]

I don't know a lot about hockey "systems" but what would Brad's and Cary's system consist of? How are they different?

[Wilbur]

Hard to say, but I'd think he should be able to fit the system to the talent for the time being until he gets "his type" of guys in there. The trouble with the "doesn't have his guys" theory is what about the incoming recruits? He didn't have a hand in them, either. This could be a 3-4 year process if that's how we want to look at it.

There is plenty of evidence that these guys can play sound D. One would only need to pull up some film from last season to see what might work. To me it's up to the coach to put the players in the best position to be successful.

Good points. What type of defenseman is a Bubba defenseman? Do we need trees or do we need quick puck management guys?

[yzerman19]

Good points. What type of defenseman is a Bubba defenseman? Do we need trees or do we need quick puck management guys?

I've always believed you need both...

Ideally your 3 pairs are:

1. A skilled offensive defenseman with a decent all around dman

2. A shutdown pairing

3. One puck mover and one body mover

[yzerman19]

We have one shutdown guy in Mac

We have two decent all around guys in Simpson and Forbert

We have two weak offensive dmen in Gleason and Mattson

We have a rookie who currently is best described as a weak offensive dman in Schmaltz

We have a body mover who is a 6th dman at best in Panzo

We don't have the right parts...

[siouxforce19]

I sure hope you all don't think D is the main problem with this team.

[yzerman19]

Not the main problem, but a problem in terms of poor outlet passes and starting the breakout. We are way too easily pinned deep, and we succumb to the forecheck too easily.

Agree that our problem last night was a failure to score goals, not giving up two.

Good offense starts with the d...

[Snake]

I sure hope you all don't think D is the main problem with this team.

I certainly don't. I've stated in the game thread that it seems to me the overall play by the forward group, particularly their inability to sustain pressure, is the most glaring issue.

[Irish]

Actually, I think the issue is the lack of development and improvement from our returners not named Kristo, Knight, or MacWilliam. We returned a solid group of defensemen from last years team and a solid corps of forwards (who I felt won on discipline and guts last year). We expected big things this year being we has such a nice run last year and got Gerimaldi back as well as a highly rated D-man (first rounder Jordan Schmaltz). While we have an ok record, we have seen almost unbelievable lackluster play at times given the number of veterans we have back. In addition, we can't seem to get it together - we score goals and give up easy ones back or we get great goaltending and can't score to save our butts. Overall, I expected much better from a lot of returners. No one has seemed to make the jump this year. When we are bad our entire play is disrupted and it is extremely frustrating to watch. This team is surprisingly easy to knock off their game.

[choyt3]

This season has been a clusterf#ck since the rookie party. Time for someone, anyone, to step up and redeem themselves. Play for the program tonight, boys.

I've wondered if maybe Hak and co. are a bit reluctant to put Rocco on line with Kristo and Knight because they aren't very effective in own end defensively? With space in a power play situation, they are great. That's not something Berry developing or not developing d can control.

I also wonder what it says about some of our other d when #20 is on top pp pairing. It would be much less painful to watch if he would (could?) one-time a pass he receives. He can't stop the puck movement for 10 seconds each time he gets it. I like what he brings to the team overall, but just don't see him as a pp type of player.

And, eff the weather.

[yababy8]

We have one shutdown guy in Mac

We have two decent all around guys in Simpson and Forbert

We have two weak offensive dmen in Gleason and Mattson

We have a rookie who currently is best described as a weak offensive dman in Schmaltz

We have a body mover who is a 6th dman at best in Panzo

We don't have the right parts...

Yzerman I usually agree with most of what you say and for the most part I think your observations here are spot on except for line two above.

Simpson is the third best player on the team: 1. Kristo 2. Knight 3. Simpson. He has been very consistent over the second half. He is an awesome outlet passer, a top notch offensive zone passer, a high end skater who finds space, a very intelligent decision maker, great at jumping in on the play in the offensive zone. A smart and accurate shooter. He is "decent against the puck carrier defensively. He is becoming our best offensive defensemen since Hale(with honorable mention to Chorney).

Forbort has been very disappointing in my eyes. He had a very good second half his freshmen year, a decent second half last year but this year he has been very sub par. If I was the coach I would strongly consider benching him after last night. He refused to engage the puck carrier. He had at least three passes directly to the stick of a Tech player. He isn't making smart decisions with the puck. Here is an example that most people would miss; at one point in the game he carried the puck into the zone with speed and had forwards breaking with him. He made the decision to shoot it which I liked but he further decided to crank the crap out of it and pretty much whiffed it. Now I just don't understand why he would try a full power shot at high speed when all you need to do is throw the puck at the net and hope for the rebound to be where the forwards are going to be at that moment. Heck, had he gotten all of the shot and the goalie given up the rebound it most likely would have bounced all the way back to the blue line. This is a little thing I guess and by no means the bulk of the criticism I had toward him last night but it is an example of poor decision making and thinking during play. While alternatively I am usually very impressed with Simpsons decisions.

Now I really want to go off about Mitch Mac and Rowney. Mich Mac should not be playing and Rowney needs to be on a checking line. And the common between these two mistakes is that they are as a combination seriously costing Knight, Kristo, Grimaldi and Mark Mac in procutivily. While Rowney is one of our better players in some areas having him center Parks and Mark Mac is simply taking away opportunity after opportunity for these time and space players to get offensive chances. Mich should not be in the lineup. He is taking a spot from Sinkbiel, Caggiula and Chysyk all three of which are as or more productive and are faster or have better decision making or vision.

The only thing more frustrating to me than thinking about the sillyness of the "Parks-Rowney-MacMillan line of last year" arguments as to why we should have Rowney up with Parks is the MacMillan brothers productivity in the BCHL. But I guess it is St. Patty's weekend and we should embrace rainbow chasing..

Also Gaarder has been to quiet to keep in the line up so here it is:

21 Rocco Grimaldi –10 Corban Knight–7 Danny Kristo

19 Brendan O’Donnell–16 Mark MacMillan–15 Michael Parks

11 Derek Rodwell –27 Carter Rowney –9 Drake Caggiula

8 Senkbiel–28 Stephane Pattyn–17 Colten St. Clair

The only one I'm not sure on is O'donnell. In a situation like this when I get to the point of writing a post like this it is only after I have seen something many times and in a sense validated my theory so to speak. O'Donnell is a player that I don't have a good feel for yet. So I will leave that alone with Chyzyk in mind as well.

[geaux_sioux]

Yzerman I usually agree with most of what you say and for the most part I think your observations here are spot on except for line two above.

Simpson is the third best player on the team: 1. Kristo 2. Knight 3. Simpson. He has been very consistent over the second half. He is an awesome outlet passer, a top notch offensive zone passer, a high end skater who finds space, a very intelligent decision maker, great at jumping in on the play in the offensive zone. A smart and accurate shooter. He is "decent against the puck carrier defensively. He is becoming our best offensive defensemen since Hale(with honorable mention to Chorney).

Forbort has been very disappointing in my eyes. He had a very good second half his freshmen year, a decent second half last year but this year he has been very sub par. If I was the coach I would strongly consider benching him after last night. He refused to engage the puck carrier. He had at least three passes directly to the stick of a Tech player. He isn't making smart decisions with the puck. Here is an example that most people would miss; at one point in the game he carried the puck into the zone with speed and had forwards breaking with him. He made the decision to shoot it which I liked but he further decided to crank the crap out of it and pretty much whiffed it. Now I just don't understand why he would try a full power shot at high speed when all you need to do is throw the puck at the net and hope for the rebound to be where the forwards are going to be at that moment. Heck, had he gotten all of the shot and the goalie given up the rebound it most likely would have bounced all the way back to the blue line. This is a little thing I guess and by no means the bulk of the criticism I had toward him last night but it is an example of poor decision making and thinking during play. While alternatively I am usually very impressed with Simpsons decisions.

Now I really want to go off about Mitch Mac and Rowney. Mich Mac should not be playing and Rowney needs to be on a checking line. And the common between these two mistakes is that it is seriously costing Knight, Kristo, Grimaldi and Mark Mac in procutivily. While Rowney is one of our better players in some areas having him center Parks and Mark Mac is simply taking away opportunity after opportunity for these time and space players to get offensive chances. Mich should not be in the lineup. He is taking a spot from Sinkbiel and Chysyk both of who are much more productive.

The only thing more frustrating to me than thinking about the sillyness of the "Parks-Rowney-MacMillan line of last year" arguments as to why we should have Rowney up with Parks is the MacMillan brothers productivity in the USHL. But I guess it is St. Patty's weekend and we should embrace rainbow chasing..

Also Gaarder has been to quite to keep in the line up so here it is:

21 Rocco Grimaldi –10 Corban Knight–7 Danny Kristo

19 Brendan O’Donnell–16 Mark MacMillan–15 Michael Parks

11 Derek Rodwell –27 Carter Rowney –9 Drake Caggiula

8 Senkbiel–28 Stephane Pattyn–17 Colten St. Clair

The only one I'm not sure on is O'donnell. In a situation like this when I get to the point of writing a post like this it is only after I have seen something many times and in a sense validated my theory so to speak. O'Donnell is a player that I don't have a good feel for yet. So I will leave that alone with Chyzyk in mind as well.

Simpson and high end skater used in the same sentence is blasphemy

[as15]

Simpson and high end skater used in the same sentence is blasphemy

No kidding, its basically him or Pattyn for worst skater on the team. Simpson is good, but best offensive defenseman since Hale? Did you miss Genoway's five years here? Which Hale? I hope its not David Hale, who had a career high of 9 points at UND.

[geaux_sioux]

No kidding, its basically him or Pattyn for worst skater on the team. Simpson is good, but best offensive defenseman since Hale? Did you miss Genoway's five years here? Which Hale? I hope its not David Hale, who had a career high of 9 points at UND.

I thought Chorney and Marto were both far better and both were excellent skaters

[Wilbur]

No kidding, its basically him or Pattyn for worst skater on the team. Simpson is good, but best offensive defenseman since Hale? Did you miss Genoway's five years here? Which Hale? I hope its not David Hale, who had a career high of 9 points at UND.

Boy were there times when Deano wanted to jump on the ice and kill the kid. Dave didn't have the best of careers at UND. Had the illness, dealing with the passing of his mother.....and some of his on ice decisions didn't sit well with the head guy.

[yzerman19]

To be clear, I am pleased with Simpson's play this year and believe he is much improved. I am talking ideal state. In an ideal state, Simpson would be paired with a top end offensive dman- think Travis Roche or Keith Ballard or even Chay.p, and they'd be the top pairing.

Mac would be paired with another shutdown man like a Matt Greene or Matt Jones

Forbert and Schmaltz could be the third pairing.

[yababy8]

No kidding, its basically him or Pattyn for worst skater on the team. Simpson is good, but best offensive defenseman since Hale? Did you miss Genoway's five years here? Which Hale? I hope its not David Hale, who had a career high of 9 points at UND.

Sorry brain fart, I meant Nick Naumenko, I always incorrectly switch Naumenko's name for Hale. Hale was the player who got the immune sickness who was from Colorado Springs. He was very good but didn't do all he could because of his medical problems.

As far as Genoway goes, if I hadn't watched Greg Johnson play for the Sioux I might argue that Genoway was the best skater I have ever seen in a Sioux uniform but overall I had some pretty strong criticisms of Genoway play. I was at the game against B.C. at the Pepsi center in 08 and would sit down with anyone and watch that game and invite them to tell me he was anything other than a liability in that game. He got schooled all of the time in the defensive zone. He would fit well on this team the way they are currently playing defense. I really liked Genoway as a "Sioux" as did many others so I don't like speaking bad of his play so I will say no more about

[sprig]

Yzerman I usually agree with most of what you say and for the most part I think your observations here are spot on except for line two above.

Simpson is the third best player on the team: 1. Kristo 2. Knight 3. Simpson. He has been very consistent over the second half. He is an awesome outlet passer, a top notch offensive zone passer, a high end skater who finds space, a very intelligent decision maker, great at jumping in on the play in the offensive zone. A smart and accurate shooter. He is "decent against the puck carrier defensively. He is becoming our best offensive defensemen since Hale(with honorable mention to Chorney).

Forbort has been very disappointing in my eyes. He had a very good second half his freshmen year, a decent second half last year but this year he has been very sub par. If I was the coach I would strongly consider benching him after last night. He refused to engage the puck carrier. He had at least three passes directly to the stick of a Tech player. He isn't making smart decisions with the puck. Here is an example that most people would miss; at one point in the game he carried the puck into the zone with speed and had forwards breaking with him. He made the decision to shoot it which I liked but he further decided to crank the crap out of it and pretty much whiffed it. Now I just don't understand why he would try a full power shot at high speed when all you need to do is throw the puck at the net and hope for the rebound to be where the forwards are going to be at that moment. Heck, had he gotten all of the shot and the goalie given up the rebound it most likely would have bounced all the way back to the blue line. This is a little thing I guess and by no means the bulk of the criticism I had toward him last night but it is an example of poor decision making and thinking during play. While alternatively I am usually very impressed with Simpsons decisions.

Now I really want to go off about Mitch Mac and Rowney. Mich Mac should not be playing and Rowney needs to be on a checking line. And the common between these two mistakes is that they are as a combination seriously costing Knight, Kristo, Grimaldi and Mark Mac in procutivily. While Rowney is one of our better players in some areas having him center Parks and Mark Mac is simply taking away opportunity after opportunity for these time and space players to get offensive chances. Mich should not be in the lineup. He is taking a spot from Sinkbiel, Caggiula and Chysyk all three of which are as or more productive and are faster or have better decision making or vision.

The only thing more frustrating to me than thinking about the sillyness of the "Parks-Rowney-MacMillan line of last year" arguments as to why we should have Rowney up with Parks is the MacMillan brothers productivity in the USHL. But I guess it is St. Patty's weekend and we should embrace rainbow chasing..

Also Gaarder has been to quiet to keep in the line up so here it is:

21 Rocco Grimaldi –10 Corban Knight–7 Danny Kristo

19 Brendan O’Donnell–16 Mark MacMillan–15 Michael Parks

11 Derek Rodwell –27 Carter Rowney –9 Drake Caggiula

8 Senkbiel–28 Stephane Pattyn–17 Colten St. Clair

The only one I'm not sure on is O'donnell. In a situation like this when I get to the point of writing a post like this it is only after I have seen something many times and in a sense validated my theory so to speak. O'Donnell is a player that I don't have a good feel for yet. So I will leave that alone with Chyzyk in mind as well.

Didn't really follow most of the run on sentence with the portion bolded, but McMillans in the USHL? Is that what you meant?

[yababy8]

Simpson and high end skater used in the same sentence is blasphemy

He is not world class like Genoway but it high end fits. The skating skill I see is with respect to his ability to allude a defender keeping the puck and moving to find space to get his eyes up and make a smart play. Please give me a list of players on this team that do that as good or better than him? here is my list:

Kristo

Knight

Grimaldi

MacMillan

Parks

Maybe St.Clair, Gleason, and O'Donnell.

As far as skating to find open space I think I would put Simpson right about MacMillan spot at 4 or 5 on the team and I sure hope this Fighting Sioux team can call a half dozen of its players "high end" skaters... I don't care if he looks awkward doing it skating to get time and space is just about the only thing that matters with regard to skating well in hockey.

[yzerman19]

Didn't really follow most of the run on sentence with the portion bolded, but McMillans in the USHL? Is that what you meant?

They played in the BCHL

[sprig]

They played in the BCHL

I know they did, just wondering if yababy did.

[yababy8]

Didn't really follow most of the run on sentence with the portion bolded, but McMillans in the USHL? Is that what you meant?

oops fixed it, wasn't pertinent to my point but wrong non the less.. Didn't he play on Hextalls old BCHL team?

[geaux_sioux]

He is not world class like Genoway but it high end fits. The skating skill I see is with respect to his ability to allude a defender keeping the puck and moving to find space to get his eyes up and make a smart play. Please give me a list of players on this team that do that as good or better than him? here is my list:

Kristo

Knight

Grimaldi

MacMillan

Parks

Maybe St.Clair, Gleason, and O'Donnell.

As far as skating to find open space I think I would put Simpson right about MacMillan spot at 4 or 5 on the team and I sure hope this Fighting Sioux team can call a half dozen of its players "high end" skaters... I don't care if he looks awkward doing it skating to get time and space is just about the only thing that matters with regard to skating well in hockey.

Gleason Forbort and Mattson are better skaters than he is. You missed those three