Sioux_FF Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I think you first have to understand that there is passion and support or nobody would be commenting one way or the other. I think most of us are frustrated with the lack of passion from our coaching staff and tired of watching the program go south. You can call it "fair weather", but who wouldn't get tired of going to games that we get blown out in and see players screwing around on the sideline while we are getting out butts kicked. I think what CMSioux is getting at is all the negativity, and the commenting about the temperament and abilities of the staff. To imply that our coaches, with 10, 20, 30 years of experience as college football players and as coaches have a "lack of passion", or don't care, or aren't aware of the problems is just silly. That goes beyond simple passion or support. It's criticizing them personally, while having 2% of the facts of the situation. By watching their sideline demeanor, or how they come off in media interviews, commenters on here can tell about their passion for the game? Wow, what amazing talent to have.....The staff are people that live UND football year round. Scouting, recruiting, practicing, teaching, parenting at times and ensuring these kids are going to class and keeping their noses clean. They have families and houses and careers. Not passionate??? You might not like the results we are seeing. But, it's not due to the staff being passionless. It just might be due to UND's 2013 team being not quite as good as the best teams in a very good conference yet. YET. Simply, some of these teams are much better than us, not all, but some. A tough, front loaded schedule and a success story 75 miles to our south exasperated this, but it's not due a lack of passion by our coaching staff. Montana and MSU didn't have D backs that ran stride for stride with Greg Hardin all day long because of a lack of passion by our staff, they did it because they are better than us right now. It's easy to be nattering nabobs of negativity all the time. And it's OK to be upset with results. But, anonymously calling for people's heads or questioning their passion with basically no facts or knowledge of the inner workings of establishing an FCS program is silly. Just my 2 cents. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I love watching the 'new' UND football program and attending the games with the other 6000 people. It's okay if we get blown out at home by the 'top' conference teams we play, because, well, they're good. We've only had losing seasons 2 of the last 3 years and will hopefully be only 1 game below .500 this year! Something might be wrong with that optimistic statement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Any news on recruiting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoHawks! Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Any news on recruiting? Will the blowout and poor fan turnout hurt badly today? Or, does it show players that they can come in and make a difference right away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 UND should be an easy sell. There is always an angle to work on recruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 maybe they should take football recruits to the volleyball game and then girls hockey instead of the football game??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux24/7 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Looks like Jake Robson from Red River is here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I think what CMSioux is getting at is all the negativity, and the commenting about the temperament and abilities of the staff. To imply that our coaches, with 10, 20, 30 years of experience as college football players and as coaches have a "lack of passion", or don't care, or aren't aware of the problems is just silly. That goes beyond simple passion or support. It's criticizing them personally, while having 2% of the facts of the situation. By watching their sideline demeanor, or how they come off in media interviews, commenters on here can tell about their passion for the game? Wow, what amazing talent to have.....The staff are people that live UND football year round. Scouting, recruiting, practicing, teaching, parenting at times and ensuring these kids are going to class and keeping their noses clean. They have families and houses and careers. Not passionate??? You might not like the results we are seeing. But, it's not due to the staff being passionless. It just might be due to UND's 2013 team being not quite as good as the best teams in a very good conference yet. YET. Simply, some of these teams are much better than us, not all, but some. A tough, front loaded schedule and a success story 75 miles to our south exasperated this, but it's not due a lack of passion by our coaching staff. Montana and MSU didn't have D backs that ran stride for stride with Greg Hardin all day long because of a lack of passion by our staff, they did it because they are better than us right now. It's easy to be nattering nabobs of negativity all the time. And it's OK to be upset with results. But, anonymously calling for people's heads or questioning their passion with basically no facts or knowledge of the inner workings of establishing an FCS program is silly. Just my 2 cents. Without going into any detail, I do have much more than 2% of the facts. Secondly, by "passion" I mean taking care of every single detail when it comes to your football team. Players acting appropriately on the sidelines, working hard in the classroom, making sure they know their playbook and executing on game day. I don't mind losing if you are playing hard and get beat by a better team, but losing to a inferior team is unacceptable. Also, I personally don't care if they own a home or live in the community, this isn't 5th grade football, this is NCAA D-1AA and they are getting paid to perform. Just as they get a contract extension with more money for doing well, they are also aware that the "axe" may fall if they do not perform well. I am not trying to be negative, I am pointing out the obvious short comings of the staff and as part of their job, they need to figure out how to correct the problem. If they can't, then we need to bring someone in that can sell everything that UND has to offer including the proud football tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjbison Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I don't know if anyone is really interested in this, but someone on this thread asked a while back about ND players on NDSU's roster and whether they were scholarship or walk-on. I've been on an internet research kick the last couple days, so I put together the info. I included a separate category for ND kids who were recruited but left the team for one reason or another(if I could find out why). I can't be sure I got everybody, especially unrecruited walk-ons who left the program. They can appear and disappear without fanfare. I also don't know if the scholarships were full or partial, and if/when players recruited as walk-ons were given scholarships. I have no thoughts about the info, just passing the time on a wet and dreary Friday. NDSU players from ND Sr Ryan Smith - Scholarship Andrew Grothmann - Scholarship Ryan Drevlow - Scholarship Danny Luecke - Walk-on Jr Esley Thorton - Scholarship Travis Beck - Scholarship Zac Johnson - VCSU transfer Nate Moody - Walk-on So Carson Wentz - Scholarship Dylan Dunn - Walk-on Brock Russell - Bemidji St transfer Alex Fontaine - Walk-on RFr MJ Stumpf - Scholarship Zachary Baker - Walk-on Jack Plankers - Scholarship Landon Lechler - Scholarship Justin Arp - Walk-on Fr Keenan Hodenfield - Walk-on Peter Saintal - Walk-on Jeff Illies - Scholarship Bryce Messner - Walk-on No longer with team 2009: Logan Hushka(W-Injury) 2010: Tyler Gefroh(S-Injury) 2011: Andrew Okland(S-?), Brandon Chrest(W-?), Leighton Talmadge(W-Transferred to Mary) 2012: none so far Beck is a Senior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Beck is a Senior JR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 now that is funny stuff - two Bison trolls fact checking. Who knows maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks. Baby steps, keep it up - you can do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 now that is funny stuff - two Bison trolls fact checking. Who knows maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks. Baby steps, keep it up - you can do it! Just here to support Muss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Just here to support Muss. wrong thread - this is for recruiting. I think Muss needs your support in the fire Muss thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux_FF Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Without going into any detail, I do have much more than 2% of the facts. Secondly, by "passion" I mean taking care of every single detail when it comes to your football team. Players acting appropriately on the sidelines, working hard in the classroom, making sure they know their playbook and executing on game day. I don't mind losing if you are playing hard and get beat by a better team, but losing to a inferior team is unacceptable. Also, I personally don't care if they own a home or live in the community, this isn't 5th grade football, this is NCAA D-1AA and they are getting paid to perform. Just as they get a contract extension with more money for doing well, they are also aware that the "axe" may fall if they do not perform well. I am not trying to be negative, I am pointing out the obvious short comings of the staff and as part of their job, they need to figure out how to correct the problem. If they can't, then we need to bring someone in that can sell everything that UND has to offer including the proud football tradition. Of course you won't go into details. Unless you are in the program you don't have them. Rumors and stories aren't facts. Also, they have been playing hard and getting beat by better teams, which is what you said you wouldn't mind. Which of the losses were to "inferior" teams? None of them in my opinion. The redshirts were in sweats and sitting in the west stands as a group yesterday...... I think that was telling them a message. But, maybe you're right. This is already our second year in the Big Sky. Why we aren't beating these established teams in the top 10 of FCS at this advanced point is unforgiveable. Why our coaches allow players to fumble or throw interceptions or miss tackles is just awful coaching. Passion as a fan is fine on your part. Just needs to be mixed with reality. Claiming to know other's passion isn't reality. Also, I don't see Mussman being let go after this year because of the way UND runs the program. They lost Lennon at least partially over money. He signed at SIU for 200k a year for 5 years in '07. UND extended Mussman for only 114k, years later. That is at least in part due to how UND values the football program. They could have went out for a big time coach, but they haven't. When the coordinator positions were open last year, they could have went and hired BCS\FCS experienced coaches from the outside and paid some serious dollars. They did not, they promoted from within at a fraction of the cost. This is apparently how the UND administation wants it to be financially. If Mussman is let go, at best it will be one of the far less experienced coaches currently on staff getting promoted. If you are worried about setting UND football back a decade, watch it happen if they do that. It will come down to $$$$, and they have shown over the last decade that big time money won't be thrown at football staff. We have a young team and a young staff. It's going to be a steady improvement if we have a little patience. For me I will continue to support UND football- the kids, the staff, the program and the school as I have every year since attending my first games in the early 60's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Of course you won't go into details. Unless you are in the program you don't have them. Rumors and stories aren't facts. Also, they have been playing hard and getting beat by better teams, which is what you said you wouldn't mind. Which of the losses were to "inferior" teams? None of them in my opinion. The redshirts were in sweats and sitting in the west stands as a group yesterday...... I think that was telling them a message. But, maybe you're right. This is already our second year in the Big Sky. Why we aren't beating these established teams in the top 10 of FCS at this advanced point is unforgiveable. Why our coaches allow players to fumble or throw interceptions or miss tackles is just awful coaching. Passion as a fan is fine on your part. Just needs to be mixed with reality. Claiming to know other's passion isn't reality. Also, I don't see Mussman being let go after this year because of the way UND runs the program. They lost Lennon at least partially over money. He signed at SIU for 200k a year for 5 years in '07. UND extended Mussman for only 114k, years later. That is at least in part due to how UND values the football program. They could have went out for a big time coach, but they haven't. When the coordinator positions were open last year, they could have went and hired BCS\FCS experienced coaches from the outside and paid some serious dollars. They did not, they promoted from within at a fraction of the cost. This is apparently how the UND administation wants it to be financially. If Mussman is let go, at best it will be one of the far less experienced coaches currently on staff getting promoted. If you are worried about setting UND football back a decade, watch it happen if they do that. It will come down to $$$$, and they have shown over the last decade that big time money won't be thrown at football staff. We have a young team and a young staff. It's going to be a steady improvement if we have a little patience. For me I will continue to support UND football- the kids, the staff, the program and the school as I have every year since attending my first games in the early 60's. No matter how you try to spin it, getting blown out at home against conference opponents is unacceptable and an embarrassment. The president and athletic director flux that was going on in 2007 is largely the reason Mussman was promoted, and that decision may go down as one of the worst management decisions in the history of UND athletics. I fully expect Faison to bring in new leadership at the end of this season, and it's desperately needed. If leadership decides to go the complacent and ultimately unproductive route at the end of the season and retain Mussman, I will be furious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Of course you won't go into details. Unless you are in the program you don't have them. Rumors and stories aren't facts. Also, they have been playing hard and getting beat by better teams, which is what you said you wouldn't mind. Which of the losses were to "inferior" teams? None of them in my opinion. The redshirts were in sweats and sitting in the west stands as a group yesterday...... I think that was telling them a message. But, maybe you're right. This is already our second year in the Big Sky. Why we aren't beating these established teams in the top 10 of FCS at this advanced point is unforgiveable. Why our coaches allow players to fumble or throw interceptions or miss tackles is just awful coaching. Passion as a fan is fine on your part. Just needs to be mixed with reality. Claiming to know other's passion isn't reality. Also, I don't see Mussman being let go after this year because of the way UND runs the program. They lost Lennon at least partially over money. He signed at SIU for 200k a year for 5 years in '07. UND extended Mussman for only 114k, years later. That is at least in part due to how UND values the football program. They could have went out for a big time coach, but they haven't. When the coordinator positions were open last year, they could have went and hired BCS\FCS experienced coaches from the outside and paid some serious dollars. They did not, they promoted from within at a fraction of the cost. This is apparently how the UND administation wants it to be financially. If Mussman is let go, at best it will be one of the far less experienced coaches currently on staff getting promoted. If you are worried about setting UND football back a decade, watch it happen if they do that. It will come down to $$$$, and they have shown over the last decade that big time money won't be thrown at football staff. We have a young team and a young staff. It's going to be a steady improvement if we have a little patience. For me I will continue to support UND football- the kids, the staff, the program and the school as I have every year since attending my first games in the early 60's. Where you are wrong is that I do have information that I can't discuss in a public forum. I do agree with some of your points but the excuse that we are only 2 years in is just a excuse. As for your sarcasm ("Why our coaches allow players to fumble or throw interceptions or miss tackles is just awful coaching"), it in fact is a coaches responsibility to teach ball security, reading defenses and proper tackling technique. If a QB or WR make the wrong read, that falls directly on the coaching staff.and they need to spend more time with those players to ensure that everyone is on the same page. This also goes for offensive linemen who don't adjust to blitzing LB's or anyone else on the field. Coaching is teaching and if you feel that we have the talent to compete at a high level and aren't, then the only other problem is that players are not understanding what their coach is teaching. I too will support UND football, just as I have for the past 35 years, but I am frustrated with how poorly we have performed in recent years, along with some of the questionable recruiting. I think it speaks volumes that we have made 60 offers thus far and have zero verbals (shows we are not the 1st choice for anyone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 A lot of the higher end guys won't commit until late. An example would be Aeron Carr or Norberg. It'd be nice to have some commits now but I'm fine with waiting for some good ones. What scares me to death is watching Harris and Chris Brown. They are worse than Mackey. Harris is as slow as molasses in January. They won't cut it. We need to bring in a couple juco corners or we will be screwed. I want to see Konalowski play because he looked like the second best cb. Either way we need a couple good cbs in this class that can play right away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 seems like every teams CBs sucks look at the Vikings lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geaux_sioux Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 seems like every teams CBs sucks look at the Vikings lol Rhodes will be a good player for them. I don't remember the last time they've had two good corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux24/7 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Tim Gordon is my hopes to help fix a CB spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux_FF Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Where you are wrong is that I do have information that I can't discuss in a public forum. I do agree with some of your points but the excuse that we are only 2 years in is just a excuse. As for your sarcasm ("Why our coaches allow players to fumble or throw interceptions or miss tackles is just awful coaching"), it in fact is a coaches responsibility to teach ball security, reading defenses and proper tackling technique. If a QB or WR make the wrong read, that falls directly on the coaching staff.and they need to spend more time with those players to ensure that everyone is on the same page. This also goes for offensive linemen who don't adjust to blitzing LB's or anyone else on the field. Coaching is teaching and if you feel that we have the talent to compete at a high level and aren't, then the only other problem is that players are not understanding what their coach is teaching. I too will support UND football, just as I have for the past 35 years, but I am frustrated with how poorly we have performed in recent years, along with some of the questionable recruiting. I think it speaks volumes that we have made 60 offers thus far and have zero verbals (shows we are not the 1st choice for anyone). Yeah, I bet. I was told 4 or 5 different rumors known to be "factual" while tailgating and at halftime by people in the know yesterday. I guarantee there is not one football player on the roster, when after missing a block or tackle; or making a poor choice or inaccurate throw; or having the ball stripped while they are fighting for yards; or taking a dumb penalty thinks to himself "if only I had been coached better" or "if only the coaches had stressed to me more not to do that". As a great fan of the program recently said, this isn't 5th grade football. They know they blew it in spite of knowing what to do. You honestly don't think they preach and coach about all those things continually??? Even the kids will tell you those mistakes are on them. I didn't say that the second year in the BSC was an excuse. I just stated it as reality. That can be hard sometimes. So, yes I do think it's the players not getting the job done. I believe most of them would say the same thing. We aren't an elite team yet in terms of overall talent and depth, so against solid teams the players have to play mistake free. But, we are competing at a high level and 2 of these games could have went the other way if key mistakes could have been avoided and players made a few more plays. Again, I believe the players would honestly agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Of course you won't go into details. Unless you are in the program you don't have them. Rumors and stories aren't facts. Also, they have been playing hard and getting beat by better teams, which is what you said you wouldn't mind. Which of the losses were to "inferior" teams? None of them in my opinion. The redshirts were in sweats and sitting in the west stands as a group yesterday...... I think that was telling them a message. But, maybe you're right. This is already our second year in the Big Sky. Why we aren't beating these established teams in the top 10 of FCS at this advanced point is unforgiveable. Why our coaches allow players to fumble or throw interceptions or miss tackles is just awful coaching. Passion as a fan is fine on your part. Just needs to be mixed with reality. Claiming to know other's passion isn't reality. Also, I don't see Mussman being let go after this year because of the way UND runs the program. They lost Lennon at least partially over money. He signed at SIU for 200k a year for 5 years in '07. UND extended Mussman for only 114k, years later. That is at least in part due to how UND values the football program. They could have went out for a big time coach, but they haven't. When the coordinator positions were open last year, they could have went and hired BCS\FCS experienced coaches from the outside and paid some serious dollars. They did not, they promoted from within at a fraction of the cost. This is apparently how the UND administation wants it to be financially. If Mussman is let go, at best it will be one of the far less experienced coaches currently on staff getting promoted. If you are worried about setting UND football back a decade, watch it happen if they do that. It will come down to $$$$, and they have shown over the last decade that big time money won't be thrown at football staff. We have a young team and a young staff. It's going to be a steady improvement if we have a little patience. For me I will continue to support UND football- the kids, the staff, the program and the school as I have every year since attending my first games in the early 60's. So we are just supposed to accept mediocrity and 5-6 seasons and (if we are all good little boys and girls) a few winning seasons thrown in there (6-5 or at best 7-4) because it isn't "feasible" to pay what it takes to bring in leadership that will lead us to greatness and that's just the way it is and la de da de da!!! Well my friend, you and I have very different visions of what being a Division I FCS institution can and should be. And fans like you are part of the problem here. Mediocrity breeds apathy with breeds more mediocrity and so on. The more you and others like you make excuses and rationalize every bad decision, the worse things get. In another discussion, someone said that nobody is using "transition" as an excuse for our problems. Well, you just proved that person wrong. This is Mussman's team, Mussman's staff, Mussman's show. And as head coach of the program, everything that happens is a reflection of him and his body of work. Yesterday's better-than-expected performance notwithstanding, that body of work doesn't look too impressive from what I am sitting. And if you think that "not being in the room" means we don't know anything about anything, then I will have to disagree with you about that as well. I would rather not have to start over from scratch, but after this season is over, Faison will have his first really tough decision to make as Athletic Director. That decision will have both short-term and long-term consequences for the FB program. And it will impact recruiting one way or the other. Every fan of this program should be concerned about recruiting right now. And if you aren't, you are living in fantasy land. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 So we are just supposed to accept mediocrity and 5-6 seasons and (if we are all good little boys and girls) a few winning seasons thrown in there (6-5 or at best 7-4) because it isn't "feasible" to pay what it takes to bring in leadership that will lead us to greatness and that's just the way it is and la de da de da!!! Well my friend, you and I have very different visions of what being a Division I FCS institution can and should be. And fans like you are part of the problem here. Mediocrity breeds apathy with breeds more mediocrity and so on. The more you and others like you make excuses and rationalize every bad decision, the worse things get. In another discussion, someone said that nobody is using "transition" as an excuse for our problems. Well, you just proved that person wrong. This is Mussman's team, Mussman's staff, Mussman's show. And as head coach of the program, everything that happens is a reflection of him and his body of work. Yesterday's better-than-expected performance notwithstanding, that body of work doesn't look too impressive from what I am sitting. And if you think that "not being in the room" means we don't know anything about anything, then I will have to disagree with you about that as well. I would rather not have to start over from scratch, but after this season is over, Faison will have his first really tough decision to make as Athletic Director. That decision will have both short-term and long-term consequences for the FB program. And it will impact recruiting one way or the other. Every fan of this program should be concerned about recruiting right now. And if you aren't, you are living in fantasy land. I really feel dumber after reading this post! Somebody makes valid points and your response is to attack and say that they are OK with Mediocrity. You didn't argue against his points, you just attacked and basically called him apathetic. Just because somebody thinks it's OK to exercise patience in the situation doesn't mean they are OK with being Mediocre. For me, Mussman seems to take steps forward each year in certain areas, only to go backward in other areas. I think it might be time to replace him but I initially thought he needed three years with playoff eligibility to show what he could do and I will stick to it for now. Right now they will struggle in every game no matter what because they have little to no run game and the QB play is poor. A decent QB would fix a lot of the problems right now, the run game needs more parts to make it go consistently though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 But, we are competing at a high level We are competing at a high level? I don't know what team you've been watching, but it's not this year's UND football team. The reason this season has been such a disappointment is because we haven't been competing! Horrible blowouts at home to conference opponents we're gonna see year after year is unacceptable and not "competing at a high level". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGame Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 We are competing at a high level? I don't know what team you've been watching, but it's not this year's UND football team. The reason this season has been such a disappointment is because we haven't been competing! Horrible blowouts at home to conference opponents were gonna see year after year is unacceptable and not "competing at a high level". They competed well yesterday, just can't have all the turnovers and they are right with a top FCS team. Not the top FCS but a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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