Wilbur Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I'm going to buy the fact that the game against the Vikings will be a wakeup call. Coming off the game against SD mines I think the team will be a bit flat and take a bit to get up to speed. Buy or Sell.....Road win at San Diego State? Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Or return kicks. Anyway stats... Freund Eff.167.68 Cmp-Att-Int 217-302-7 % 71.9 Yds 2379 TD 23 Avg. 237.9 Walker Eff.164.30 Cmp-Att-Int 166-248-10 % 66.9 Yds 2327 TD 20 Avg 211.5 So, those are the senior years. Tell me again how good Walker was. 'Oh it was against harder competition' doesn't count, Freund won at Northern Iowa so I'm pretty sure the stats are legit and would've been similar with NDSU's schedule. And remember those were Freund's numbers after Dressler graduated and after Chappell was ineligible so he had a true freshman at running back instead of one of the greatest in school history at WR and RB like Walker. Northern Iowa didn't even make the playoffs that year. So yes, against harder competition. 2 wins against FBS competition as a senior on the road. Threw for only 52 yards less with 54 fewer attempts. Threw more interceptions though unfortunately. Quote
darell1976 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I'm going to buy the fact that the game against the Vikings will be a wakeup call. Coming off the game against SD mines I think the team will be a bit flat and take a bit to get up to speed. Buy or Sell.....Road win at San Diego State? Sell..I would love to see UND get an FBS win someday, but not getting my hopes up on this game. Quote
FSSD Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Until, they schedule a game - I have moved on to a new target - the Griz. please feel free to continue the debate with the Buffalo fans we don't have enough of those going on.. The only bad part about moving onto the Griz is that they probably look at MSU and EWU as their rivals. That is why I used the word "target" and not "rival" - UND has to build new rivals in the Big Sky and it will take time.. But, until then the "target" for me is the Griz which typically means the top of the Big Sky. Not disrespect is meant toward other teams in the Big Sky and I am looking forward to games against all Big Sky teams. Quote
UNDvince97-01 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Freund won at Northern Iowa so I'm pretty sure the stats are legit and would've been similar with NDSU's schedule. Freund was a great QB at UND, one of the best. But Reed Manke was the stud that led UND to a win at Northern Iowa that day in Cedar Falls. I can't say enough about how underrated Reed Manke was and is as a UND QB. Kid was a flat-out gamer and winner. Quote
geaux_sioux Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Northern Iowa didn't even make the playoffs that year. So yes, against harder competition. 2 wins against FBS competition as a senior on the road. Threw for only 52 yards less with 54 fewer attempts. Threw more interceptions though unfortunately. you forgot to mention that Freund had a ridiculous comp %, over 70% career. And he was mobile. Walker takes a back seat to nobody in NDSU history as an actual QB but does to a few in UND history. Quote
FSSD Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 This is great stuff. It only goes to show that given an opportunity we usually dream big. Johnboy, in my opinion you are both right on and misdirected. 'Right on' in that yes, the Griz probably do look at MSU & EWU as their rivals because for year in and year out those programs have ruled the BSC in football. But FSSD's comment suggests that UND pick the Griz as a rival, or rather make the Griz a focal point in achieving success. The bad part about moving onto the Griz this early in the game is that none of us has proven worthy yet to gain that respect. Case in point - my beloved Blazer fans see the Lakers as our despicable rivals, when in fact the Lakers could give a rat's ass about us. That's not a rivalry, that's like the Kansas City Royals calling out the Yankees! Before we pick a dastardly villain to measure ourselves against, we need to strap it on game after game, season after season, and recreate the scenario. We want those teams looking at us as rivals. Having said that, and getting back to the heart of this thread, Buy or Sell, the game against the Vikings will be a wake up call to UND I understand your point and I was simply saying the "target" is Montana which is typically at the top of the Big Sky. I do think that other programs in the Big Sky are setting themselves up to make a run at the top: PSU - new coach, new stadium Poly - new coach, new stadium, autobid conference, more regional games. MSU - new coach, stadium upgrades It will be interesting to see how the Great West teams do in conference this year. Sell - PSU should be a good game and they have been very competitive in the Big Sky the last couple of years. It will be a good measuring stick. Quote
geaux_sioux Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Freund was a great QB at UND, one of the best. But Reed Manke was the stud that led UND to a win at Northern Iowa that day in Cedar Falls. I can't say enough about how underrated Reed Manke was and is as a UND QB. Kid was a flat-out gamer and winner. I always forget that was 06 and not 07, I'd pick that 07 team over UNI 07 anyway. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 you forgot to mention that Freund had a ridiculous comp %, over 70% career. And he was mobile. Walker takes a back seat to nobody in NDSU history as an actual QB but does to a few in UND history. Ok, playing against who again? Winona? Walker did it against Division 1 teams. Freund did it against D-II teams. Walker may be on his way out as Jensen has done some beautiful things. Quote
geaux_sioux Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Ok, playing against who again? Winona? Walker did it against Division 1 teams. Freund did it against D-II teams. Walker may be on his way out as Jensen has done some beautiful things. Then not only does what Bentrim did not matter but those 8 D2 championships don't either. Can't have it both ways. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Then not only does what Bentrim did not matter but those 8 D2 championships don't either. Can't have it both ways. I would never tell someone that championships don't matter. That said, D-II in the 80's vs. D-II in the 2000's isn't even a competition as to which one had better quality. Look at the scholarship numbers, that is proof enough. That is beside the point. If a D-I guy and a D-II guy have similar numbers, people are going to more than likely go with the D-I guy. Quote
zonadub Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I would never tell someone that championships don't matter. That said, D-II in the 80's vs. D-II in the 2000's isn't even a competition as to which one had better quality. Look at the scholarship numbers, that is proof enough. That is beside the point. If a D-I guy and a D-II guy have similar numbers, people are going to more than likely go with the D-I guy. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I would never tell someone that championships don't matter. That said, D-II in the 80's vs. D-II in the 2000's isn't even a competition as to which one had better quality. Look at the scholarship numbers, that is proof enough. That is beside the point. If a D-I guy and a D-II guy have similar numbers, people are going to more than likely go with the D-I guy. Scholarship numbers mean that more teams are competitive. It also means that there are fewer weak teams. And it doesn't say anything about how talented the players are. Players are bigger and faster now than they were 30 years ago. More DII players are making it to the NFL. The top DII teams of today would probably be competitive with the teams from the 80's, whether you and the faithful at Bville would believe it or not. But you just keep trying to spin things your way as we all know that you will. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Scholarship numbers mean that more teams are competitive. It also means that there are fewer weak teams. And it doesn't say anything about how talented the players are. Players are bigger and faster now than they were 30 years ago. More DII players are making it to the NFL. The top DII teams of today would probably be competitive with the teams from the 80's, whether you and the faithful at Bville would believe it or not. But you just keep trying to spin things your way as we all know that you will. Of course players are bigger and faster now than they have been before. If the Steelers of today played against the Steel Curtain teams, the Steelers of today would probably beat them by 20-30 points. That doesn't mean that they are better than the Steel Curtain was. Notre Dame today, would probably beat the Notre Dame teams that were good once upon a time. You think that teams like Duluth with 30 scholarships or whatever D-II allows now, would be as good as if they were allowed 60 or whatever the scholarship allotment was? Regardless, that is off topic. I said that Walker is better than Freund and based on the information available, it would be hard to say I am wrong. Quote
geaux_sioux Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I would never tell someone that championships don't matter. That said, D-II in the 80's vs. D-II in the 2000's isn't even a competition as to which one had better quality. Look at the scholarship numbers, that is proof enough. That is beside the point. If a D-I guy and a D-II guy have similar numbers, people are going to more than likely go with the D-I guy. So one guy has D1 teammates playing D1 ball the other has D2 teammates playing D2 ball, do you see where I'm going with this? 1 Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 So one guy has D1 teammates playing D1 ball the other has D2 teammates playing D2 ball, do you see where I'm going with this? NAIA qb throws for 4500 yards and 40 touchdowns. Is he better than Freund or Walker? Probably not. Quote
geaux_sioux Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 NAIA qb throws for 4500 yards and 40 touchdowns. Is he better than Freund or Walker? Probably not. name the guy and the rest of the stats, I give you concrete stats and you make stuff up? Not a good way to make a point. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 name the guy and the rest of the stats, I give you concrete stats and you make stuff up? Not a good way to make a point. Ok. I dont need a guy. But for the sake of discussion I will make some up. Joe Schmoe 6' 1" 200 lbs. playing for Jamestown College. 72% percent completion. 2700 yards. 30 touchdowns. 8 interceptions. Quote
sioux24/7 Posted July 8, 2012 Author Posted July 8, 2012 Buy or Sell: NDSU won't come up in this thread again? 2 Quote
geaux_sioux Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Ok. I dont need a guy. But for the sake of discussion I will make some up. Joe Schmoe 6' 1" 200 lbs. playing for Jamestown College. 72% percent completion. 2700 yards. 30 touchdowns. 8 interceptions. You kinda do need a guy since we're talking about guys. Or I could say Randy Schmoe (Joes more athletic cousin) 6'9" 280 lbs playing for UND 98% 9000 yds 100TD 0INT Randy Schmoe is the greatest player in UND history Quote
geaux_sioux Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Buy or Sell: NDSU won't come up in this thread again? I'm gonna sell this one. Buy or sell a 1000 yard rusher next year? Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Of course players are bigger and faster now than they have been before. If the Steelers of today played against the Steel Curtain teams, the Steelers of today would probably beat them by 20-30 points. That doesn't mean that they are better than the Steel Curtain was. Notre Dame today, would probably beat the Notre Dame teams that were good once upon a time. You think that teams like Duluth with 30 scholarships or whatever D-II allows now, would be as good as if they were allowed 60 or whatever the scholarship allotment was? Regardless, that is off topic. I said that Walker is better than Freund and based on the information available, it would be hard to say I am wrong. Actually, it would be hard to prove either way. Different programs playing different competition. No way to actually prove your assertion. And if a team from today would beat a team from years ago it does prove they are better. That is how you determine who is better, by determining who would win the game. That is the biggest problem with comparing teams or players from different eras. The game changes and the players keep getting bigger and faster. It is impossible to really have a fair comparison. You best bet is to compare how they did against other players or teams from the same era. How did the Steelers from the 70's compare against the league during the 70's versus how the Steelers of today compare to the NFL of today. How did Walker compare with other quarterbacks at the same level during the same years versus how Freund compared to other quarterbacks at his level during his years. Go ahead and do the math on that and then you can come back and argue with some ammunition. Right now you sound like a typical Bison fan trying to blow your own horn on someone else's board. Quote
Wilbur Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 I'm gonna sell this one. Buy or sell a 1000 yard rusher next year? I'm going to buy this one. Jake Miller. Buy or Sell.....Garman becomes a featured guy in the offense? Quote
bincitysioux Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Buy or sell: Desmond Howard was a better pro receiver than Jerry Rice because Howard played I-A ball and Rice played I-AA ball Quote
darell1976 Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Buy or sell: Desmond Howard was a better pro receiver than Jerry Rice because Howard played I-A ball and Rice played I-AA ball Buy because NDSU fans are ALWAYS right. Quote
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