SBoHE votes to move ahead with nickname retirement

[Chewey]

I like DaveK. Though I don't always agree with what he says, he has passion and commitment and, quite frankly, balls. To most on here and the utterly sanctimonious save the athletic programs sophistry that was propagandized with effect by so many, I would encourage reflection on the imagery of white sepulchers in Matthew 23:27. Were I ever in a French foxhole, amazing as it sounds now, I'd want Archie Fool Bear, Frank Black Cloud, DaveK, Fetch, JTA, RHHIT, Erich Longie, Watchmaker, David Gipp, Lucy Ganje, etc as opposed to O'Keefe, Faison and Co. As odd as it sounds and as strange as it feels, in defeat, I feel much more kinship with and have much more respect for those with whom I have been diametrically opposed on this issue than with those who used to be allies. May you revel in the marrowless husk of your victory knowing not only that you allowed racism to be perpetuated and native peoples to be abused for $$$$$ but also that even your temporary allies have no respect for you and still consider you "racists." How bittersweet are the workings of irony.

[Chewey]

Watch a more powerful and more corrupt organization fill the void?

Well, what do you do when a corrupt and powerful organization throws its weight around? That's right. Knuckle under, allow the abusive entity to continue throwing its weight around and stop demanding accountablilty from your elected U.S. representatives to allegedly protect $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Wait a minute, that's allowing, enablng and particpating in it. Wow, who'd a thunk it!

[watchmaker49]

I like DaveK. Though I don't always agree with what he says, he has passion and commitment and, quite frankly, balls. To most on here and the utterly sanctimonious save the athletic programs sophistry that was propagandized with effect by so many, I would encourage reflection on the imagery of white sepulchers in Matthew 23:27. Were I ever in a French foxhole, amazing as it sounds now, I'd want Archie Fool Bear, Frank Black Cloud, DaveK, Fetch, JTA, RHHIT, Erich Longie, Watchmaker, David Gipp, Lucy Ganje, etc as opposed to O'Keefe, Faison and Co. As odd as it sounds and as strange as it feels, in defeat, I feel much more kinship with and have much more respect for those with whom I have been diametrically opposed on this issue than with those who used to be allies. May you revel in the marrowless husk of your victory knowing not only that you allowed racism to be perpetuated and native peoples to be abused for $$$$$ but also that even your temporary allies have no respect for you and still consider you "racists." How bittersweet are the workings of irony.

And I with you. I did not even have to get out the dictionary today!

[Chewey]

Lol Watchmaker! I fit the sanctimonious bill quite well on most things but not on this one. I feel more like Nathan excoriating King David after King David sent Uriah into battle on the front lines to be killed so as to continue relations with Bathsheba with less of a guilt factor. I guess that's an image about the fortitude-less invertebrates that we can both appreciate..........

[Siouxperfan7]

I like DaveK. Though I don't always agree with what he says, he has passion and commitment and, quite frankly, balls. To most on here and the utterly sanctimonious save the athletic programs sophistry that was propagandized with effect by so many, I would encourage reflection on the imagery of white sepulchers in Matthew 23:27. Were I ever in a French foxhole, amazing as it sounds now, I'd want Archie Fool Bear, Frank Black Cloud, DaveK, Fetch, JTA, RHHIT, Erich Longie, Watchmaker, David Gipp, Lucy Ganje, etc as opposed to O'Keefe, Faison and Co. As odd as it sounds and as strange as it feels, in defeat, I feel much more kinship with and have much more respect for those with whom I have been diametrically opposed on this issue than with those who used to be allies. May you revel in the marrowless husk of your victory knowing not only that you allowed racism to be perpetuated and native peoples to be abused for $$$$$ but also that even your temporary allies have no respect for you and still consider you "racists." How bittersweet are the workings of irony.

You are mad at the wrong group of people. I, along with most people on here, love the name and all it stands for. None of us agreed with the NCAA policy. The tribes had their chance to make their approval. They did not get it in time and still fully have not gotten it. It came to a point where keeping the name would have hurt the athletic teams that proudly represent them. So we did not vote to retire the name because we are racist. But to save the integrity of the athletic department and all its teams. We all hated to mark the yes bubble on the ballot last Tuesday. We are not the racists. We are the realists.

[Chewey]

You are still accused as racists by your opponents. I don't think you are either but many non-racists or non-this or non-that allow it to be perpetuated by doing nothing or by subscribing to a facially valid but inherently flawed and over-stated and well-propagandized position. The NA's who supported the nickname and logo (the vast, vast majority) did nothing except realize that the SBoHE and other parties were not acting in good faith after months/years of trusting in "the process" and then get organized themselves to fight for their nickname and history and sacred customs only to be sold out by those who claimed that nickname and logo were being used with reverence to honor them. When the time came to truly honor them, the ones who were so good at proclaiming that they were and had been honoring them became all wobbly and sold out displaying how weak their claims of honor and respect always were. Part of me feels ok that it's being retired because the presence of such a symbol of honor, strength, courage, resilience and fortitude is truly out of place given such people and at such an institution. If I were the pro-nickname NA's, I would align myself with JTA, etc and demand that every image of the nickname and logo be expunged from such a place. I did all I could and invested all the time and $$ capital that I could - and then I invested more - to honor them. I can visit with Archie Fool Bear, John Chaske, etc and know this and know that they know this. I could even visit with JTA, RHHIT, Erich Longie David Gipp, Lucy Ganje, etc. as respectful adversaries and engage them knowing that I engaged them and their racist allies at the NCAA with the full of my being, the full of my admittedly limited intellect and the full of my "talents" and with as much of my pocketbook as was within my ability.

[The Sicatoka]

Dear Don "Chewey" Quixote, the windmill you're looking for is in Indianapolis.

PS - Please, eschew polysyllabic profundity and eschew sesquipedalian obfuscation.

[watchmaker49]

Dear Don "Chewey" Quixote, the windmill you're looking for is in Indianapolis.

PS - Please, eschew polysyllabic profundity and eschew sesquipedalian obfuscation.

Dear Don "Chewey" Quixote, the windmill you're looking for is in Indianapolis.

PS - Please, eschew polysyllabic profundity and eschew sesquipedalian obfuscation.

From the guy who was jousting windmills himself not that long ago. At least you have stolen the analogy that I used about windmills to describe you and your friends and now have twisted it to use against someone else.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

You are still accused as racists by your opponents. I don't think you are either but many non-racists or non-this or non-that allow it to be perpetuated by doing nothing or by subscribing to a facially valid but inherently flawed and over-stated and well-propagandized position. The NA's who supported the nickname and logo (the vast, vast majority) did nothing except realize that the SBoHE and other parties were not acting in good faith after months/years of trusting in "the process" and then get organized themselves to fight for their nickname and history and sacred customs only to be sold out by those who claimed that nickname and logo were being used with reverence to honor them. When the time came to truly honor them, the ones who were so good at proclaiming that they were and had been honoring them became all wobbly and sold out displaying how weak their claims of honor and respect always were. Part of me feels ok that it's being retired because the presence of such a symbol of honor, strength, courage, resilience and fortitude is truly out of place given such people and at such an institution. If I were the pro-nickname NA's, I would align myself with JTA, etc and demand that every image of the nickname and logo be expunged from such a place. I did all I could and invested all the time and $$ capital that I could - and then I invested more - to honor them. I can visit with Archie Fool Bear, John Chaske, etc and know this and know that they know this. I could even visit with JTA, RHHIT, Erich Longie David Gipp, Lucy Ganje, etc. as respectful adversaries and engage them knowing that I engaged them and their racist allies at the NCAA with the full of my being, the full of my admittedly limited intellect and the full of my "talents" and with as much of my pocketbook as was within my ability.

Where was the organization 3 years ago? Where were the vast majority of NA nickname supporters when a simple vote at Standing Rock could've prevented all this? You claim to have so passionately fought for the nickname but why were you not camped outside Standing Rock tribal council meetings demanding that a vote of the people be taken? You should be angry with youself for being so late to the party when the deadlines of the settlement were publicized for all to see.

[zonadub]

Where was the organization 3 years ago? Where were the vast majority of NA nickname supporters when a simple vote at Standing Rock could've prevented all this? You claim to have so passionately fought for the nickname but why were you not camped outside Standing Rock tribal council meetings demanding that a vote of the people be taken? You should be angry with youself for being so late to the party when the deadlines of the settlement were publicized for all to see.

Wouldn't have even needed Standing Rock's approval in 2005 - 2007. One tribe (Spirit Lake) would have been enough.

[watchmaker49]

Where was the organization 3 years ago? Where were the vast majority of NA nickname supporters when a simple vote at Standing Rock could've prevented all this? You claim to have so passionately fought for the nickname but why were you not camped outside Standing Rock tribal council meetings demanding that a vote of the people be taken? You should be angry with youself for being so late to the party when the deadlines of the settlement were publicized for all to see.

Where were you and the rest of the supporters? You question Chewey when none of the supporters here calling for a SR vote did nothing but make fun Ron His Horse Is Thunder.

[Siouxperfan7]

Where were you and the rest of the supporters? You question Chewey when none of the supporters here calling for a SR vote did nothing but make fun Ron His Horse Is Thunder.

Not making fun of him. Just wanting him to have a vote to either show that the tribe was in support or it was not. He obviously knew that the vote would be in favor of the name, so he did not allow a vote on the reservation. So people were not making fun of him, just very dissapointed that he would not allow the people he represents to voice their opinion.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

Where were you and the rest of the supporters? You question Chewey when none of the supporters here calling for a SR vote did nothing but make fun Ron His Horse Is Thunder.

I question Chewey because his anger lies with the wrong people. He is clearly very passionate about the nickname and has invested his time in money into fighting to keep it. The problem is, he directs his anger at the leaders at UND when the issue has been largely out of their hands since the settlement agreement with the NCAA. That is the when time and money needed to be invested. It was no secret that the Standing Rock tribal council was against a vote. If the people who supported the nickname till the very end felt so stronly as to invest significant time and money into the fight, it should've been invested trying to convince their leadership to let the people vote. Investing time and money into attacking the leadership at UND was a useless investment because the issue hadn't been theirs to decide for quite some time.

[DamStrait]

Many posters here displayed a level of insanity for 6 years though. It was clear all the way back in 2005 for anyone that did not wear their racist blinders and told themselves, "We're doing it to honor them".

Sure wish Archie Fool Bear et al would remove their racist blinders.

[The Sicatoka]

From the guy who was jousting windmills himself not that long ago. At least you have stolen the analogy that I used about windmills to describe you and your friends and now have twisted it to use against someone else.

I guess I never knew the definition of "unhappy victory" before you demonstrated it so well here.

[Chewey]

Not tilting at windmills necessarily. The majority of people who post here probably aren't familiar with how things are done in Indian Country, except for Scott M and Watchmaker and a few others. Archie Fool Bear will tell you himself that things take a lot longer to wind through the political "processes" (so-called) there. I clerked for the TMBC during the summer of 1993 where we worked to re-codify the tribal consitution and visited at length with tribal elders to incorporate traditions, customs and history in the revised constitution. This was one of the funnest jobs I ever have had and, as a white boy, I got a little kickback - both friendly and maligning -- from some of the natives. But, I got to play golf with the Tribal Council and got to know Jiggers LaFromboise before he was bounced as tribal chairman by Twila. In short, they are not bound by the white man's timetable. If the NCAA and UND had been truly understanding and sensitive to this and had they actually involved the Sioux people, they would have realized this. As it stands, neither party really cared about them or how they do things.

Eunice and Archie and Frank Black Cloud all worked behind the scenes to do what was done. It did not fall within the white man's timeline so they are blamed along with all of the anti-NA's. Like I said and I will happily reiterate here, I would now tell Jody Hodgson and UND to expunge every image and every mention of the nickname and logo from the arena and from campus - just as everyone wants.

What we have now is this entirely expedient hypocrisy by REA and UND and by the Alumni Association and by many right here: We want to get rid of you because it will cost too much and the sacrifice will be too much to keep you (NCAA sanctions). However, we want to keep you because it will cost too much to get rid of you (REA). And, we'll blow smoke in various of your bodily orifices by telling you that we're trying to maintain some respect for the Sioux history and culture by endeavoring not to change REA when the real concern is that it would be too costly to change the REA.

If the imagery at REA was a lot less ornate, how quickly do you think Jody and Tim and Faison and Kelley would have made changes? They would have been made in 2 weeks when Peter Johnson put out the expungment clarion call and any claims of respect for Sioux tradition and history would have been thrown on the dust pile with the nickname and logo. We've seen how much respct they have for these things and a case in point is how they scoffed at the pipe ceremony. Now, after stating this reality, I say again: Is such a school and such an alumni association and such a fanbase worthy of retaining the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname. My response is an emphatic NO. UND is still not in compliance because of the REA. So, be consistent at least and agree to make changes to get compliant. Don't exhibit some grotesque form of fealty to the monster by begging to save $$$$$$$. Personally, I'd hate to see the beautiful imagery go and have that beatiful building defaced at the PC altar but it should stay for the right reasons. I can't divine what people think or feel but I can state the obvious as I've done above and that is indicative of duplicity and hypocrisy. To be sure, it's a more understated and polished form as compared to the form employed by the NCAA and JTA and others with the "racist" tripe but it's still duplicity and hypocrisy.

I am not the grand arbiter and my opinion means squat except to myself but you are complicit in this as are the 3 Congressional members whom you and the Alumni Association let off the hook. I can tell you that from the CUR and SL point of view, Hoeven and Conrad have lost a considerable amount of cred and certainly do not have the moral authority to sit on the Indian Affairs Committee. While a lot more is discussed there than this issue, the heart of this issue is racism -- understated and skulking and shifty racism (the most sinister form) - and they did nothing about it.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

Not tilting at windmills necessarily. The majority of people who post here probably aren't familiar with how things are done in Indian Country, except for Scott M and Watchmaker and a few others. Archie Fool Bear will tell you himself that things take a lot longer to wind through the political "processes" (so-called) there. I clerked for the TMBC during the summer of 1993 where we worked to re-codify the tribal consitution and visited at length with tribal elders to incorporate traditions, customs and history in the revised constitution. This was one of the funnest jobs I ever have had and, as a white boy, I got a little kickback - both friendly and maligning -- from some of the natives. But, I got to play golf with the Tribal Council and got to know Jiggers LaFromboise before he was bounced as tribal chairman by Twila. In short, they are not bound by the white man's timetable. If the NCAA and UND had been truly understanding and sensitive to this and had they actually involved the Sioux people, they would have realized this. As it stands, neither party really cared about them or how they do things.

Eunice and Archie and Frank Black Cloud all worked behind the scenes to do what was done. It did not fall within the white man's timeline so they are blamed along with all of the anti-NA's. Like I said and I will happily reiterate here, I would now tell Jody Hodgson and UND to expunge every image and every mention of the nickname and logo from the arena and from campus - just as everyone wants.

What we have now is this entirely expedient hypocrisy by REA and UND and by the Alumni Association and by many right here: We want to get rid of you because it will cost too much and the sacrifice will be too much to keep you (NCAA sanctions). However, we want to keep you because it will cost too much to get rid of you (REA). And, we'll blow smoke in various of your bodily orifices by telling you that we're trying to maintain some respect for the Sioux history and culture by endeavoring not to change REA when the real concern is that it would be too costly to change the REA.

If the imagery at REA was a lot less ornate, how quickly do you think Jody and Tim and Faison and Kelley would have made changes? They would have been made in 2 weeks when Peter Johnson put out the expungment clarion call and any claims of respect for Sioux tradition and history would have been thrown on the dust pile with the nickname and logo. We've seen how much respct they have for these things and a case in point is how they scoffed at the pipe ceremony. Now, after stating this reality, I say again: Is such a school and such an alumni association and such a fanbase worthy of retaining the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname. My response is an emphatic NO. UND is still not in compliance because of the REA. So, be consistent at least and agree to make changes to get compliant. Don't exhibit some grotesque form of fealty to the monster by begging to save $$$$$$$. Personally, I'd hate to see the beautiful imagery go and have that beatiful building defaced at the PC altar but it should stay for the right reasons. I can't divine what people think or feel but I can state the obvious as I've done above and that is indicative of duplicity and hypocrisy. To be sure, it's a more understated and polished form as compared to the form employed by the NCAA and JTA and others with the "racist" tripe but it's still duplicity and hypocrisy.

I am not the grand arbiter and my opinion means squat except to myself but you are complicit in this as are the 3 Congressional members whom you and the Alumni Association let off the hook. I can tell you that from the CUR and SL point of view, Hoeven and Conrad have lost a considerable amount of cred and certainly do not have the moral authority to sit on the Indian Affairs Committee. While a lot more is discussed there than this issue, the heart of this issue is racism -- understated and skulking and shifty racism (the most sinister form) - and they did nothing about it.

So reservation government doesn't care about the NCAA's timeline and the NCAA doesn't care about the reservation government's timeline, a mutual ignorance. The problem is, the NCAA was the entity in control. They sponsor the events and control UND's membership status. The NCAA made a decision and then settled with UND. It was then up to the tribes to make a statement for or against. If the people of both tribes really care about this issue and support it to the degree that you and other supporters claim they do, they should have done so within the given timeline. You saying that the tribes don't care about the NCAA's timeline is no different than the NCAA saying they don't care about the tribes' timelines. There's no racial discrimination in that statement. It is simply two entities operating in the fashion that they normally do.

[Chewey]

There sure is discrimination in that statement in that one entity is telling the tribes that it's trying to protect them against racial discrimination by implementing an enlightened policy and another entity is telling the tribes that it respects customs, history, etc.

[Chewey]

UND and the Alumni Association have brought forth so many convenient platitudes I think they've done a better dance than JTA, Lucy Ganje, etc. and their switcheroo trying to associate the name and logo with racism.

[iramurphy]

There sure is discrimination in that statement in that one entity is telling the tribes that it's trying to protect them against racial discrimination by implementing an enlightened policy and another entity is telling the tribes that it respects customs, history, etc.

You seem to forget to mention another important factor. There were a number of National Native groups pressuring the NCAA to change the policy before the members voted overwhelmingly to change the policy. The NCAA was responding to lobbying by multiple Native organiizations and individuals rather than dictating to the ANtivNeither Spirit Rock nor Standing Rock spoke up on behalf of UND when it counted. When you do business on the reservation, you adjust to that culture, same as you do when you do business in another country. The cultural differences between tribes is as different as cultural differences between European countries such as French, German, Spanish, Itallian etc. I would expect tribal governments and cultures to adjust to the NCAA timeline when off the reservation and the NCAA to adjust to the individual tribal cultures when they do business with the tribal governments. I believe you have an argument that the polciy to allow other ethnic groups to be represented by names and logos but not Native Americans is discriminatory. I don't agree that makes people involved from either side racist. Maybe ignorant of cultural differences or insensitive at times but I don't believe racist.

Your continued references to UND officials as racist or incompetent is not based on facts. Your information about removal of all logos etc. is also not correct. The agreement allows for some to stay, some to be removed over time and most recently consideration for a different timeline. None of this precludes any of us from working with Native American children to improve educational opportunities. That will do more than the name and logo.

You would do better to drop the name calling. Playing the race card at every opportunity decreases the effectiveness of using it when appropriate. Lastly, I gave up on trying to get Chewey to point out what he thinks our congressional delegation could have gotten UND that other congressional delegates obtained for their schools.

[ScottM]

There sure is discrimination in that statement in that one entity is telling the tribes that it's trying to protect them against racial discrimination by implementing an enlightened policy and another entity is telling the tribes that it respects customs, history, etc.

Like their history of ultimately giving up and moving on to reservations, like Red Cloud, Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse did? Even those great leaders knew when they were up against an unmovable force, and the costs of continued fighting were much higher than any "honor" that might be gleaned from seeing their children and grandchildren dead. I'm not sure why certain people are so selective in their reading of history.

And your continued chirping about "racism" makes Al Sharpton seem lucid.

[Chewey]

The number of Native American groups were not and are not SR and SL and how does that comport with the SI poll showing just the opposite? In any event, the NCAA simply got a feel-good notion in its head and adopted a policy based upon simple hyperbole (that's a charitable reference too) and applied it cumbersomely without doing any investigation as to the various impacted tribes and universities. The issue of racial stereotyping, so-called, is highly nuanced. The NCAA was not smart enough or just didn't care enough to get the fact that such a policy involving such an issue must be applied delicately and with an appreciation for nuance. If one NA group doesn't want it, fine. The minute that group sponsors an NCAA athletic team the NCAA policy can apply to it. Ira, I know you're an educated individual and find what you post to be relevant and enlightening at times. However, don't tell me that you do not think 3 of the most powerful men on the planet (two of them sit on the Indian Affairs Committee) could do nothing. Scott M delineated exactly what they could do earlier if they wanted to take a switch to the NCAA. What could they do? Are you serious about that question? For starters, they could have stated publicly that SR should have allowed for a vote and that the NCAA should withhold application of its policy until one was held. Second, they should have publicly stated that SL supported the nickname and logo and that many on SR did too and that perhaps the NCAA could examine its policy accordingly. Third, they could have told the NCAA that they would call for public hearings as to various issues the NCAA does not want addressed publicly. Don't give me that "what could they do" stuff. Saying this was a state issue and washing one's hands accordingly is a completely disingenuous and simplistic take on it. 3 of the most powerful men on planet earth could do nothing about this? Really? Bunk.

[Chewey]

Like their history of ultimately giving up and moving on to reservations, like Red Cloud, Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse did? Even those great leaders knew when they were up against an unmovable force, and the costs of continued fighting were much higher than any "honor" that might be gleaned from seeing their children and grandchildren dead. I'm not sure why certain people are so selective in their reading of history.

And your continued chirping about "racism" makes Al Sharpton seem lucid.

Even he is lucid at times though I disagree with him on about 99% of what he says. One does not have to be a racist to allow what is a racist effect to metastasize. One is still complicit as to that racist effect accordingly. Expediency. Indifference. Duplicity. These are terms that could be employed more roundly. They should just cut the "we honor your traditions and culture but...." garbage and just state that it's about money. We want to retain you at REA because of the money necessary to remove you. At least one could accept that and know that it's authentic. Weren't you the one complaining previously about being disingenuous about the claims of honor and respect? Well, we're all seeing that displayed by Jody Hodgson and Tim O'Keefe and Grant Shaft among others.

[iramurphy]

The number of Native American groups were not and are not SR and SL and how does that comport with the SI poll showing just the opposite? In any event, the NCAA simply got a feel-good notion in its head and adopted a policy based upon simple hyperbole (that's a charitable reference too) and applied it cumbersomely without doing any investigation as to the various impacted tribes and universities. The issue of racial stereotyping, so-called, is highly nuanced. The NCAA was not smart enough or just didn't care enough to get the fact that such a policy involving such an issue must be applied delicately and with an appreciation for nuance. If one NA group doesn't want it, fine. The minute that group sponsors an NCAA athletic team the NCAA policy can apply to it. Ira, I know you're an educated individual and find what you post to be relevant and enlightening at times. However, don't tell me that you do not think 3 of the most powerful men on the planet (two of them sit on the Indian Affairs Committee) could do nothing. Scott M delineated exactly what they could do earlier if they wanted to take a switch to the NCAA. What could they do? Are you serious about that question? For starters, they could have stated publicly that SR should have allowed for a vote and that the NCAA should withhold application of its policy until one was held. Second, they should have publicly stated that SL supported the nickname and logo and that many on SR did too and that perhaps the NCAA could examine its policy accordingly. Third, they could have told the NCAA that they would call for public hearings as to various issues the NCAA does not want addressed publicly. Don't give me that "what could they do" stuff. Saying this was a state issue and washing one's hands accordingly is a completely disingenuous and simplistic take on it. 3 of the most powerful men on planet earth could do nothing about this? Really? Bunk.

Never said there was nothing they could do. I wanted you to say what it was you wanted them to do and how did other politicians do differently for their schools. It would have been interesting to see how the NCAA would have reacted. Our present poiticians could still address the issues with the NCAA but doubt any will. I am not saying these guys couldn't ahve done anything. I wasn't convinced they would have gotten us anymore than the other schools got. Your point is well taken as far as they had influence and chose not to attempt to pressure the NCAA. They also could ahve pressured the tribes and other Native groups. Not sure they have enough time.

[Chewey]

Never said there was nothing they could do. I wanted you to say what it was you wanted them to do and how did other politicians do differently for their schools. It would have been interesting to see how the NCAA would have reacted. Our present poiticians could still address the issues with the NCAA but doubt any will. I am not saying these guys couldn't ahve done anything. I wasn't convinced they would have gotten us anymore than the other schools got. Your point is well taken as far as they had influence and chose not to attempt to pressure the NCAA. They also could ahve pressured the tribes and other Native groups. Not sure they have enough time.

What I really object to is that the Alumni Association and Jody Hodgson and members of the alumni/ae did not vocalize publicly and forcefully their concerns with Hoeven, Conrad, etc. They should have made it known that the NCAA meddling was unacceptable and should have demanded that they intercede, especially after the 17,000 strong referral vote. Would Hoeven and Conrad say "no" to a formal public demand by such a contingent? No. They did, however, have no problem ignoring letters from the CUR and from the Tribal Council of SL and from the Tribal Chairman of SL himself.