Measure 4 tv ad

[UNDColorado]

Spoke with my brother today who lives in GF and he will vote yes.

[iramurphy]

My cousin from Bismarck has had kidney cancer and is on dialysis and they recently found lung cancer. Prognosis not good. She isn't sure she wants to bother with chemo but wants to live long enough to vote yes. God bless her.

[fightingsioux4life]

My cousin from Bismarck has had kidney cancer and is on dialysis and they recently found lung cancer. Prognosis not good. She isn't sure she wants to bother with chemo but wants to live long enough to vote yes. God bless her.

My condolences.

[Gothmog]

Just because I can't tell you off the top of my head who they are does not mean there aren't any colleges without an athletic dept.

Now, if you can come up with some concrete proof that there isn't a single one out there, then and only then will I stand corrected. It sounds to me that you're implying that every single college in the United States has an athletic dept., and I'm sorry but I do not believe that to be true.

Prove me wrong.

No, Dave that's not how it works. The burden of proof always lies with the person asserting a claim. Otherwise you're commiting the fallacy of "argument from ignorance."

[jdub27]

Just because I can't tell you off the top of my head who they are does not mean there aren't any colleges without an athletic dept.

Now, if you can come up with some concrete proof that there isn't a single one out there, then and only then will I stand corrected. It sounds to me that you're implying that every single college in the United States has an athletic dept., and I'm sorry but I do not believe that to be true.

Prove me wrong.

While I agree with 82Sioux that you are the one who should have to back up your statement, I provided you with a link to the top colleges before but I know you are going to use not having it as an excuse, here it US News list. Nothing in the top 100, but I guess I don't know how high of a rank you still consider finest in the nation...

[southpaw]

The fact of the matter is that there are colleges that don't have athletics. They do exist, contrary to the shrill cries of the cliquey majority of posters on this forum.

But are they some of the finest? Or now since you have classified every college as fine, it doesn't matter how they're ranked.

[Gothmog]

The fact of the matter is that there are colleges that don't have athletics. They do exist, contrary to the shrill cries of the cliquey majority of posters on this forum.

Name some.

[ScottM]

Like I said, I believe that every college out there is a fine learning institution.

Well, at least some of us still have standards.

[82SiouxGuy]

The fact of the matter is that there are colleges that don't have athletics. They do exist, contrary to the shrill cries of the cliquey majority of posters on this forum.

Those are called trade schools. And most of them have athletics. It's good to know that you'll just keep moving the line until you find something that fits with your statement rather than admit that you were wrong. But even your new definition doesn't fit with your original statement. You didn't say a fine school. You said:

I get most of what you're saying but not the "best for everyone involved" part. How exactly is it best for everyone involved? It's not like student-athletes don't have choices to attend other schools, nobody is going to force them to come to North Dakota. The school could make a very big statement by just dropping athletics altogether and moving on as an institution of higher education. Some of the finest colleges in the country don't have sports.

See, you said some of the finest colleges. Try again.

[Hayduke]

Just because I can't tell you off the top of my head who they are does not mean there aren't any colleges without an athletic dept.

Now, if you can come up with some concrete proof that there isn't a single one out there, then and only then will I stand corrected. It sounds to me that you're implying that every single college in the United States has an athletic dept., and I'm sorry but I do not believe that to be true.

Prove me wrong.

There are space aliens that look like Elvis dancing outside my living room window. .

Now, if you can come up with some concrete proof that there isn't a single one out there, then and only then will I stand corrected. I

Prove me wrong.

[Gothmog]

I think the definition of the word "finest" is going to vary greatly from one person to the next. No, YOU try again. You will NEVER win this argument. Sorry.

Dave, you have lost the argument. I doesn't matter whether you admit or not.

[choyt3]

This is just sad.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ignorant

[bincitysioux]

I don't know of any colleges that are not "fine" learning institutions.

Why does this not surpise me? Considering the source.........................

[82SiouxGuy]

I think the definition of the word "finest" is going to vary greatly from one person to the next. No, YOU try again. You will NEVER win this argument. Sorry.

A little English lesson.

fine¹adj

1. excellent or choice in quality; very good of its kind a fine speech

2. superior in skill, ability, or accomplishment a fine violinist

You add -est to many short adjectives to form superlatives. For example, the superlative of `nice' is `nicest'; the superlative of `happy' is `happiest'. You also add it to some adverbs that do not end in -ly. For example, the superlative of `soon' is `soonest'.

If is almost impossible for all to be fine, because it means excellent or superior. Adding the est makes it even more of a superlative. It is not possible for all colleges to be among the finest. Even when you make up your own definitions to words.

[Gothmog]

Alrighty then, Gothmog has now joined Hayduke in the "every single college out there has an athletic dept./there is no such thing as a college without athletics" club.

Dave, you can't weasel out of this by claiming that you really meant something other than the clear meaning of your original statement. In any case, you must provide some proof that your statement was true or you lose the argument.

So again, please provide a list of the "finest" schools in the country with no athletic departments.

[choyt3]

You've had a number of days to research and find ONE since you first made the conjecture. You are way past the point of "off the top of" your head.

[82SiouxGuy]

I challenge you to name an inferior college, and give a valid reason why it is inferior. You can't do it because every college is a fine learning institution. If a person has a college education that is impressive no matter what college they attended.

Schools aren't fine just because you couldn't get into them. Here are the 50 worst colleges based on graduation rates and ranked by Washington Monthly. Not one of these schools is even close to a fine institution of higher education. All of them would be considered inferior. They are a waste of time and money.

Institution

Graduation

Rate 1 Southern University at New Orleans (LA)*, ⊕ 5% 2 Allen University (SC)†† 6% 3 Martin University (IN) 7% 4 Bellevue University (NE) 7% 5 Calumet College of Saint Joseph (IN) 7% 6 Baker College of Auburn Hills (MI) 7% 7 University of the District of Columbia* 8% 8 East-West University (IL)†† 9% 9 Haskell Indian Nations University (KS)* 9% 10 Crichton College (TN)†, †† 9% 11 Jarvis Christian College (TX)†† 10% 12 Edward Waters College (FL) 11% 13 Oglala Lakota College (SD)* 11% 14 Baker College of Clinton Township (MI) 12% 15 Heritage University (WA) 12% 16 Davenport University (MI) 12% 17 Texas College 12% 18 Texas Southern University* 13% 19 Chicago State University* 13% 20 Purdue University, North Central Campus (IN)* 13% 21 Macon State College (GA)* 13% 22 West Virginia University at Parkersburg* 13% 23 Mountain State University (WV) 13% 24 Saint Paul's College (VA) 13% 25 Nevada State College* 13% 26 University of Houston, Downtown (TX)* 14% 27 Louisiana State University, Shreveport* 15% 28 Utah Valley University* 15% 29 University of Alaska Southeast* 15% 30 Boricua College (NY) 15% 31 University of Great Falls (MT) 16% 32 Bryn Athyn College of the New Church (PA) 16% 33 Coppin State University (MD)* 16% 34 Paul Quinn College (TX) 16% 35 Holy Names University (CA) 17% 36 Huston-Tillotson University (TX) 17% 37 University of Texas at Brownsville* 17% 38 Bacone College (OK) 17% 39 Marygrove College (MI) 17% 40 Rogers State University (OK)* 18% 41 Long Island University, Brooklyn Campus (NY) 18% 42 Miles College (AL) 18% 43 Western New Mexico University* 18% 44 Sul Ross State University (TX)* 18% 45 Northeastern Illinois University* 18% 46 Life University (GA) 19% 47 CUNY New York City College of Technology 19% 48 Harris-Stowe State University (MO)* 19% 49 Stillman College (AL) 19% 50 Mitchell College (CT) 20%

†† The original version of this table listed several schools—Concordia College at Moorhead, Saint Augustine’s College, Nyack College, Visible School—Music and Worship Arts College, and Idaho State University—as dropout factories based upon graduation rate data they reported to a database maintained by the U.S. Department of Education. We have since determined that those schools reported incorrect graduation rate information to the government; had they reported accurate data they would not have been included in the table. We have corrected the rankings accordingly.

⊕Southern University's low graduation rate reflects the effects of Hurricane Katrina, which devastated the campus. The average graduation rate of the four cohorts of students who graduated prior to Katrina was 11 percent; at that rate the school would rank 13th on our list.

[Hayduke]

Dave, you can't weasel out of this by claiming that you really meant something other than the clear meaning of your original statement. In any case, you must provide some proof that your statement was true or you lose the argument.

So again, please provide a list of the "finest" schools in the country with no athletic departments.

Have you noticed how this whole thing has went from support for the nickname, then realization of the implications of that support followed by rational people deciding supporting the name isn't worth it.

In situations like this there is always one nut-job holdout with a tinfoil hat that refuses to see the reasonable action that needs to be done.

[bincitysioux]

I challenge you to name an inferior college, and give a valid reason why it is inferior. You can't do it because every college is a fine learning institution.

Harvard University, the University of North Dakota, and the University of Phoenix are all colleges.....................

You are saying that all are "fine" (i.e. excelent and/or superior), and none of them are inferior to each other.

One of those three is a fairly well known college nation-wide and it does not have college athletics.

This is the direction that you wish for North Dakota to go?

[Gothmog]

I don't have to provide a list. The fact that I don't know their names off the top of my head does not erase the fact that they exist. You can't weasel your way out of this by claiming they don't exist just because I'm not familiar with their names, because if that's the case none of the Bison football players exist either as I do not know any of their names.

There's really not much to say to someone like you. Obviously, you're wrong and I'm quite sure you do know it. Don't bore me by refusing to admit it.

[82SiouxGuy]

Who says I tried to get into them? Every college is a fine learning institution and only an uppity snob would say otherwise. Not every student is a good student but every college is a good college.

I didn't say that you tried to get into them. Even the students and professors at the schools I listed would say that they aren't fine schools.

"With its tree-lined campus and gleaming new steel and glass convocation center, Chicago State certainly looked impressive. But within his first month there, Nestor wanted to leave. Advisers in the engineering department seemed clueless about guiding him to the right courses, insisting that if he wanted to take programming he first needed to enroll in a computer class that showed students how to turn on a monitor and operate a mouse. (Nestor required no such training.) The library boasted a robot that retrieved books, but Nestor would have preferred that it simply stay open past eight p.m., since class sometimes ended at nine p.m. or later, leaving him without a useful place to study or do research before going home. Trash littered the classrooms and grounds, and during class, many of the students would simply carry on conversations among themselves and ignore the instructors — or even talk back to them. Nestor was appalled. 'It was like high school, but I was paying for it,' he says."

Many people reading that will say: What do they expect? Such colleges admit mostly low-income students who lack the preparation to get into well-run colleges. It is hard to teach them. A low graduation rate comes with the territory.

Gotcha, says the monthly. Its springs a trap for such pessimists with a second list of eight colleges that have demographic characteristics nearly identical to Chicago State's, but graduation rates three or four times higher.

Chicago State has 5,211 students. Of them, 92.3 percent are black or Hispanic and 66.7 percent receive federal Pell Grants given to low-income students. They enter the college with an average high school grade point average of 2.83 and an average SAT of 850 on a 1600 point scale.

North Carolina Central University, for instance, has 5,978 students, 87 percent of them black or Hispanic and 63.6 percent receiving Pell grants. In high school they had an average GPA of 2.85 and an average SAT of 845. But NCCU's six-year graduation rate is 47.9 percent. The difference, Miller and Ly say, is an administration devoted to helping, not frustrating, the students, particularly those newly arrived.

"Students entering NCCU are told from the start that they are expected to have a goal of graduating in four years. The University College keeps students together in groups and assigns them advisers who must approve all major academic decisions and meet with students frequently. NCCU students even sign a contract upon arriving, a document that lays out the goals of what they are going to accomplish. If they start to struggle, they sign an additional contract that commits them to even closer monitoring. Above all, what drives places like NCCU is a culture of experimentation and data collection. The administrators track students, and they track results. If something works, they keep doing it. If it doesn’t, they try something else."

[Gothmog]

So obviously you believe that EVERY college has an athletic dept., got it!

No, I believe that it is not true that some of the finest schools in the country have no athletic department. And don't bother to twist the meaning of the word "finest."

[bincitysioux]

Personally, I would rather they go the direction of Alcorn State. But I think in a lesser of two evils scenario I would go the University of Phoenix route over the IUP route.

But, just to be clear with your "convicitons" for everyone who reads your posts, you feel that the Univerisity of Phoenix is no way inferior to Harvard University, right?

[bincitysioux]

Schools aren't fine just because you couldn't get into them. Here are the 50 worst colleges based on graduation rates and ranked by Washington Monthly. Not one of these schools is even close to a fine institution of higher education. All of them would be considered inferior. They are a waste of time and money.

It is not surprising that 2 of the "50 Worst Colleges" are members of the Great West Conference.......................

[Gothmog]

It's very subjective. What is fine to one person might not be fine to the next. That isn't "twisting" anything, that's just how it is.

No, words have meaning. An argument is fallacious whether the person making that argument understands the meaning of the words he chose or not. The word "finest" is pretty well understood, especially in terms of educational institutions. There is pretty wide-spread agreement about what schools are considered "fine" institutions.

That's why we need you to provide a list of the "fine" shools you consider to prove your assertion. WIthout it, we have no way of evaluating what you mean.