Goon Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Obviously, number 2. Duncan kept saying that they'd consulted the tribes and gotten their input prior to the surrender agreement. There's plenty in the record disputing that claim. To my knowledge, there's nothing in the record substantiating Duncan's claim and that's why the Judge discussed it. How can a 1969 pipe ceremony satisfy a requirement of a "settlement" propounded in 2007? The point at issue is that a gift was given and never rescinded and no tribal council can undo via resolution what was permanently done through sacred ritual. Another point is why the NCAA failed to recognize it and what steps they took to understand its significance. Maybe they placed a 5 minute phone call to RHHIT or JTA? Is that sufficient? They want the NA's to have input about the issue but what steps did they take prior to the surrender agreement in that regard? If they're interested in getting such input, wouldn't or shouldn't the input of all Indians be equally weighed? If the 1969 ceremony is discarded, why isn't the approval of SL enough and why wasn't it enough for the surrender agreement when it was enough for other schools in other areas of the country? The Judge is a very erudite guy and he was obviously well-versed in the matter and had thoroughly read everything. Regardless of the outcome, he at least took the time to consider fully all of the arguments which is a lot more than I can say for a lot of parties involved in the process. Having a trial to determine what was meant exactly by the 1969 pipe ceremony and why the NCAA did not recognize that and why the NCAA wanted 2 tribes instead of 1 would be the best outcome. If memory serves me correctly - it's been awhile since I've looked at the case - the SC in Davidson said that the Committee for Understanding and Respect did not have standing but that if a tribe had actually been involved perhaps the tribe would have. It's too damn late to wade into that again so someone will have to correct me otherwise. The Judge asked if Soderstrom was representing just the Committee and it was pointed out that the SL Tribe empowered them and Soderstrom to do what they could to save the name. The resolution was entered into the record right there. The Judge certainly can elect to just dismiss the whole thing, if he wants to do so, just to be done with it. But, there is enough to have the matter proceed to trial too if the Judge feels the need to have the NCAA explain a few things. I so glad that we got some lawyers on this site to explain the legal stuff to us. 1 Quote
GeauxSioux Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Judge tosses Spirit Lake lawsuit against NCAA “Many of the counts are entirely without merit, an the ones that could potentially have been meritorious could only have properly been brought by UND,” Erickson wrote. “As a voluntary, private organization, the NCAA was free to implement the policies it saw fit for governing its events, no matter how provident or improvident that policies may have been,” he wrote. Yes, the NCAA has been brought to its knees just as the "useful idiots" predicted. Quote
Fetch Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 under terms of the NCAA policy, “UND and other similarly-situated schools are under no obligation to retire their American Indian nicknames and imagery,” Erickson wrote. “While the policy mandates modest sanctions for the use of these marks, So I'm still voting NO Quote
jdub27 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 So if their lawsuit gets thrown out this week, will you admit it's time to move on? I don't think that will happen but yes what else is there Time to stay true to your word Fetch, the lawsuit is tossed. Like it or not, it is time to move on. Quote
Fetch Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 "the ones that could potentially have been meritorious could only have properly been brought by UND,” Erickson wrote" Shows how poor UND fought for the name should have partnered & supported with SL VOTE NO TO KEEP THE NAME Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 "the ones that could potentially have been meritorious could only have properly been brought by UND,” Erickson wrote" Shows how poor UND fought for the name should have partnered with SL UND couldn't partner with Spirit Lake because they signed a legal document that they couldn't sue again after the settlement. When they signed that agreement Spirit Lake had not agreed to approve the name, so that would have been Spirit Lake's fault for not agreeing to support the nickname earlier. Of course if they had given approval earlier UND wouldn't have had to sue in the first place. The judge said they potentially could have been meritorious, not that they were meritorious. That means they might have had a chance, not that they would have been successful. So, are you going to live up to your word or not? Quote
Fetch Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Not worth giving up the name for "MODEST SANCTIONS" Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Not worth giving up the name for "MODEST SANCTIONS" So your word is worthless. Good to know. Quote
jdub27 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I don't think that will happen but yes what else is there Not worth giving up the name for "MODEST SANCTIONS" Figures. Wouldn't expect someone like you to keep your word. Keep grasping at straws, it is over. Quote
GeauxSioux Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Not worth giving up the name for "MODEST SANCTIONS" Figures. Quote
ScottM Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 As a voluntary, private organization, the NCAA was free to implement the policies it saw fit for governing its events, no matter how provident or improvident that policies may have been.” Obviously, this judge was corrupted by the NC$$ to help perpetuate this racist genocide. Quote
jodcon Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Not worth giving up the name for "MODEST SANCTIONS" Modest Sanctions: No home playoff games Reality Sanctions: No home playoff games Blackballed by many schools/conferences Scheduling problems Conference affiliation? Who knows. Poor recruiting Losing records Lost revenue *Feel free to add more, that's enough for me... 3 Quote
Hayduke Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Judge tosses Spirit Lake lawsuit against NCAA Yes, the NCAA has been brought to its knees just as the "useful idiots" predicted. Game. Set. Match. It's over. Time to get rid of my avatar. I will wear my Sioux gear to the games. But, they need to drop the nickname. Between this and the SDSU issue, anybody that believes it's a good idea to keep the Sioux nickname is delusional or doesn't care at all for UND sports. Including hockey. 1 Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Modest Sanctions: No home playoff games Reality Sanctions: No home playoff games Blackballed by many schools/conferences Scheduling problems Conference affiliation? Who knows. Poor recruiting Losing records Lost revenue *Feel free to add more, that's enough for me... Severe sanctions would be shutting down the program or removing UND's membership in the NCAA. Modest just means that they could be worse. Notice he didn't say light sanctions. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Modest Sanctions: No home playoff games Reality Sanctions: No home playoff games Blackballed by many schools/conferences Scheduling problems Conference affiliation? Who knows. Poor recruiting Losing records Lost revenue *Feel free to add more, that's enough for me... I nominate best response post I've seen in a long time on SS. jodcon has it right. Loss of attendence. Loss of fans due to poor atmosphere at games due to poor product on the field due to blackballing by other schools due to the nickname. Loss of students to the school. Like it or not, guys especially like to go to schools that have good sports. I have heard that as a result of the championship this year, NDSU got a lot of applications they weren't expecting. Could just be a rumor, could be a fact. At the very least, a decent chunk of students want to go to a school where athletics is relevant, and a UND with the nickname would not be relevant in sports. Even hockey over time would at the very least take a step down and be an average-good team rather than an exceptional one. A major reality sanction that a lot of people on here wouldn't like.. NDSU completely dominating all sports and fans in North Dakota. Any young people on here who are starting families now will have to deal with their children's generation being NDSU fans simply because "The AC" is getting all of the best kids, playing in significant games, and have fun games to go watch. Which I know would break a lot of hearts and cause premature aging for lots of you guys on here. Quote
Hayduke Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Loss of students to the school. Like it or not, guys especially like to go to schools that have good sports. I have heard that as a result of the championship this year, NDSU got a lot of applications they weren't expecting. Could just be a rumor, could be a fact. At the very least, a decent chunk of students want to go to a school where athletics is relevant, and a UND with the nickname would not be relevant in sports. Even hockey over time would at the very least take a step down and be an average-good team rather than an exceptional one. It's a HUGE marketing tool. Kids sometimes, believe it or not, choose a school at the age of 17 because it's the cool and fun place to be. Later, they find out what great academic programs they have. Excellent point, JB! Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I nominate best response post I've seen in a long time on SS. jodcon has it right. Loss of attendence. Loss of fans due to poor atmosphere at games due to poor product on the field due to blackballing by other schools due to the nickname. Loss of students to the school. Like it or not, guys especially like to go to schools that have good sports. I have heard that as a result of the championship this year, NDSU got a lot of applications they weren't expecting. Could just be a rumor, could be a fact. At the very least, a decent chunk of students want to go to a school where athletics is relevant, and a UND with the nickname would not be relevant in sports. Even hockey over time would at the very least take a step down and be an average-good team rather than an exceptional one. A major reality sanction that a lot of people on here wouldn't like.. NDSU completely dominating all sports and fans in North Dakota. Any young people on here who are starting families now will have to deal with their children's generation being NDSU fans simply because "The AC" is getting all of the best kids, playing in significant games, and have fun games to go watch. Which I know would break a lot of hearts and cause premature aging for lots of you guys on here. And this may be one of your best posts ever. A study that has been quoted on this forum in the past shows that schools who do well in sports, like reaching the Final 4 in basketball, have a significant increase in attendance in the following years. Gonzaga is just one example. Sports are definitely a recruiting tool for many schools. I think they are really important for schools like UND and NDSU when recruiting in the Twin Cities. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 It's a HUGE marketing tool. Kids sometimes, believe it or not, choose a school at the age of 17 because it's the cool and fun place to be. Later, they find out what great academic programs they have. Excellent point, JB! And this may be one of your best posts ever. I'm making friends on the siouxsports board. Oh dear. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Now more than ever it is crucial for the continued existence of the Fighting Sioux athletics program to vote no. Oh My God. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I'm making friends on the siouxsports board. Oh dear. Don't worry, it probably won't last. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Oh My God. I think he's gone completely around the bend. 1 Quote
jodcon Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Now more than ever it is crucial for the continued existence of the Fighting Sioux athletics program to vote no. Are you Rocky Hager? Quote
Siouxperfan7 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Now more than ever it is crucial for the continued existence of the Fighting Sioux athletics program to vote no. Predictable response from the man who has completely lost touch with reality!! 1 Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 Don't worry, it probably won't last. No doubt, around the time UND loses a couple of games this fall everyone will hate me again. Are you Rocky Hager? Funny story, my Grandma was his babysitter. DaveK is certainly not Rocky. My Grandma wouldn't let someone be that out of touch with reality. Quote
Fetch Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 A Federal Judge called them Modest Sanctions & said UND could of been the one to have brought up any concerns You guys better get to work on your own petition on the name - I still feel No will prevail & the name will stay Thanks SL for the effort - It's not over yet Quote
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