ND Supreme Court Rules against the NDSBoHE

[Hawkster]

Anyone else think it's ironic that Super Fan DaveK picked us to lose to Minnesota in the hockey bracket and had Minnesota winning it all. Now granted, I only had UND going one game further and had BC winning it all, but wouldn't you think a guy who claims to be the very heart and soul of UND athletics would at least have a little faith in his team?

I'll probably get kicked to the curb for saying this, but it just seems so contrary to the front he puts up over the name.

[82SiouxGuy]

It shows a united front - Too whom? And how does that help anyone? It doesn't matter with the settlement in place.

It helps SL - How does it help SL? It has absolutely no effect on the lawsuit that SL has filed. That isn't a popularity contest.

It shows what Sioux county thinks - Again, that has no effect on the settlement so it doesn't matter to the court either.

It shows the name & logo is more important than what you think - It would just show how popular it is, not how important. Those are 2 very different things. The name and logo are not as important as you think they are. They are very popular, we know that. The school is more important than the nickname and logo.

It shows it's not over yet - That will be the problem. UND needs the drama and the trouble to be over before permanent damage is done.

It shows if SL wins there could be a new settlement & if SR were smart they would finally vote to agree to the name so they could possibly share in the revenue it could bring to them also - If SL wins there will be a different policy with or without the nickname law. The law doesn't help that. And there is definitely money involved in sales of logo merchandise, but it isn't as much as you and others seem to think. We're not talking millions of dollars per year in profits for UND. So it isn't the potential windfall for the tribes either.

It will show ND can not be told what to do when we believe it is unjust - It will show that North Dakota is willing to cut off its own nose to spite its face. It will show that North Dakota is willing to risk damaging the UND athletic department just to keep a cool nickname and logo.

VOTE NO & let it play out - Vote YES and put this nonsense to an end.

[fightingsioux4life]

Like you, I picked what I thought would happen, not what I was rooting for. Neither one of us had the Sioux winning the whole tournament, so I guess you could accuse both of us of not having faith in our team.

I am with Dave on this one. I also did not pick us to win it all. Of course, my picks for both hockey and basketball still sucked, but not from lack of trying.

[jdub27]

it is about what is right - our name is not hostile or abusive & the vast majority want to keep it

If it truly is about "what is right," you should have been supporting a decision for the hockey team to wear it's regular season jerseys during the regionals, not the new ones. I didn't see any comments from you regarding that. So is it about "what is right" or is it about "what is right as long as it doesn't effect the hockey team" that you happen to be supporting? Nothing would have made more of a statement about this whole situation than the hockey team coming out with jerserys on that have the logo on it, making a very public statement about the NCAA's stance. But the majority of those saying the name/logo should stay showed a pretty hypocritical side during the regionals. It wasn't about what was right or wrong anymore, it was whatever didn't hurt the hockey team. Now that hockey is over, it is about right and wrong again. Make your mind up on your arugments and maybe someone will take you seriously.

[Fetch]

Like you all say it their (ncaa) club (monopoly) & their rules I can live with no name & no logo at their crappy tournament's

They need to be broke up & find new ways to run tournaments

[82SiouxGuy]

Like you all say it their (ncaa) club (monopoly) & their rules I can live with no name & no logo at their crappy tournament's

They need to be broke up & find new ways to run tournaments

It's all about what you can live with,isn't it. And that isn't the only sanction, that is only a part of it.

The NCAA isn't the only game in town. UND could go to the NAIA. Would you prefer that?

[Fetch]

It's about our name that I think soon will show we have the support of NA's & the ncaa is wrong to tell us what is right or wrong - it is the ncaa being discriminatory & racist & their stubbornness & sanctions are hostile & abusive

[jdub27]

Like you all say it their (ncaa) club (monopoly) & their rules I can live with no name & no logo at their crappy tournament's

They need to be broke up & find new ways to run tournaments

It's about our name that I think soon will show we have the support of NA's & the ncaa is wrong to tell us what is right or wrong - it is the ncaa being discriminatory & racist & their stubbornness & sanctions are hostile & abusive

Which is it? Is it about right and wrong or is it about being fine and living with the sanctions? They are completely different arguments and you are trying to use both of them. If it is about right and wrong, then UND should continue to wear the jerseys and use the nickname, despite what the sanctions are, even if this means forfeiting games. If it is about living with the sanctions, then it isn't about what is right and wrong. You aren't standing up for the nickname and logo, you are doing what the NCAA says is OK to do and that means not using the nickname and logo. You aren't standing up to them and proving anything.

For the record, I'm not on board with either of the above opinions. It is best for the University to move on and knowing when to cut your losses to prevent even greater ones in the future.

[The Sicatoka]

... I can live with no name & no logo at their crappy tournament's

First, no Fetch, it's not what you can live with. News flash: It's not all about you. The University of North Dakota was here long before you and it'll be here long after you. It's about UND, not you Fetch.

Secondly, if it was just "no logo, no name" at tournaments, I'd agree. But it's also no home playoff games, and it's also no games against region institutions that we, The University of North Dakota, want to be the full peers of (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa).

[watchmaker49]

IT's about our name that I think soon will show we have the support of NA's & the ncaa is wrong to tell us what is right or wrong

Fletch, I have a strange feeling that there might be more of you and DaveKs than people who are not willing to see the whole athletic department crash and burn. Your statement about the NCAA telling us is right or wrong will go a long way with people in North Dakota. Who by the way do have a strong track record of voting against their own best interests out of spite.

[The Sicatoka]

... I think soon will show ...

I'm willing to go on record with an " ... I think soon will show ... " prediction.

I think a Tuesday in June will show a lot of North Dakotans are tired of this tragic misadventure and will vote to end it. I wouldn't have said that before Easter weekend and going out and talking to a lot of relatives who love the name but are tired of the (i) distraction and wasted energy, (ii) politicing behind it, and (iii) money spent on it. I suspect there's more "moniker fatigue" out there than we realize.

[watchmaker49]

First, no Fetch, it's not what you can live with. News flash: It's not all about you. The University of North Dakota was here long before you and it'll be here long after you. It's about UND, not you Fetch.

Secondly, if it was just "no logo, no name" at tournaments, I'd agree. But it's also no home playoff games, and it's also no games against region institutions that we, The University of North Dakota, want to be the full peers of (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa).

I am not convinced that there is really that much difference between the people that say it is about the school as a whole or if they really are only interested in the Athletic Department. At least Fletch and DaveK are being honest about their motivations.

[Fetch]

No for all the measures is how it will go down - then we will wait for the SL lawsuit - knowing Sioux county (SR) voted to keep the name

too bad so many of the ones you preach to have left the State

[82SiouxGuy]

No for all the measures is how it will go down - then we will wait for the SL lawsuit - knowing Sioux county (SR) voted to keep the name

too bad so many of the ones you preach to have left the State

It's possible that the SL lawsuit may be dismissed as early as this month. And as we have explained countless times, the vote by Sioux County doesn't mean anything to the NCAA and won't have any effect on the legal system, the settlement or the lawsuit.

[Fetch]

then time will tell

rejoice that Sioux County may vote yes (they don't want the name) then I agree it is over

But after the vote we will know & if they vote no (want the name) you will see a resurgence of wanting to keep the fight alive

[Chewey]

If it truly is about "what is right," you should have been supporting a decision for the hockey team to wear it's regular season jerseys during the regionals, not the new ones. I didn't see any comments from you regarding that. So is it about "what is right" or is it about "what is right as long as it doesn't effect the hockey team" that you happen to be supporting? Nothing would have made more of a statement about this whole situation than the hockey team coming out with jerserys on that have the logo on it, making a very public statement about the NCAA's stance. But the majority of those saying the name/logo should stay showed a pretty hypocritical side during the regionals. It wasn't about what was right or wrong anymore, it was whatever didn't hurt the hockey team. Now that hockey is over, it is about right and wrong again. Make your mind up on your arugments and maybe someone will take you seriously.

Ira made this very lucid point before and he was right. I advocated that the hockey team defy the NCAA and wear their jerseys in the regional. Risk? Possibly. It would have put this asinine issue out square and center for all to see.

[Teeder11]

I would have supported that 100%. They would have forced the NCAA to come out and enforce their absurd policy on national television. The hate crime would have been exposed for all to see which would have left the NCAA with egg all over their faces. It would have been worth forfeiting a game in my opinion, especially considering the fact that the Sioux were a longshot at best going into the tournament. It would have been an excellent opportunity to take a stand and make a point. There is something very admirable about martyrdom.

Somehow I think Mario, Eids, Blood and the crew would have vehemently opposed that experiment in public dissent after working their tails off all season, with blood, sweat, injuries and tears to make it as far as they did. What an insult that would have been to their effort and to the masterful job of the coaching staff who pieced together a patchwork of players and helped them play bigger than the sum of their parts.

[ScottM]

There is something very admirable about martyrdom.

Says the guy who's sacrificing nothing.

[82SiouxGuy]

I would have supported that 100%. They would have forced the NCAA to come out and enforce their absurd policy on national television. The hate crime would have been exposed for all to see which would have left the NCAA with egg all over their faces. It would have been worth forfeiting a game in my opinion, especially considering the fact that the Sioux were a longshot at best going into the tournament. It would have been an excellent opportunity to take a stand and make a point. There is something very admirable about martyrdom.

How generous of you, volunteering to let a bunch of college athletes forfeit their dreams and something they had spent 6 months working to gain. What a shining example you are for the youth of today. Letting someone else give up their dreams so you can keep something you want.

[jodcon]

There is something very admirable about martyrdom.

Martyrdom is a powerful thing...but for it to work something has to die, and I don't think UND athletics should be that something.

[jdub27]

I would have supported that 100%. They would have forced the NCAA to come out and enforce their absurd policy on national television. The hate crime would have been exposed for all to see which would have left the NCAA with egg all over their faces. It would have been worth forfeiting a game in my opinion, especially considering the fact that the Sioux were a longshot at best going into the tournament. It would have been an excellent opportunity to take a stand and make a point. There is something very admirable about martyrdom.

So if the team would have been the favorites like last year, it would have been a bad idea? You are so absurd on your thoughts on this it is almost unbelievable. I didn't hear you advocating for this before hand, weren't you just fine with them wearing alternate jerseys as long as you could watch them play and cheer them on? Now that the season is over, it is pretty easy to throw the team under the bus and say they should have forfeited. Some fan you are...

[jdub27]

What would have potentially died is not UND athletics, but rather the participation of the UND hockey team in the 2012 NCAA tournament. That is assuming, of course, that the NCAA would have had the audacity to carry out their absurd threat live on EPSNU. Would have been fun to see their bluff called. Force them to put their money where their mouth is and make them look petty in the process.

And then what happens when you find out they weren't bluffing? It would be pretty easy for them to say "We told you multiple times what would happen, how dumb are you?" UND would look pretty stupid in that situation, sacrificing college athlete's collegiate careers over a nickname and logo? That would really encourage recruits to come to UND, a school where to certain fans, what is on a jersey is more important than the student-athletes and the University the represent. Great message to send.

[jdub27]

If it turned out they weren't bluffing our players would then become forever immortalized as martyrs, and more importantly the NCAA would make themselves look very foolish live on ESPNU. The whole nation would then see this unfold and see the NCAA as the hateful racist organization that they are. It would possibly be the beginning of the end of the NCAA. Who knows how bad the backlash would be against them?

And people would laugh at UND for trying to stand up to an organization of which they are a voluntary member of. The sanctions and penalties are and where clearly spelled out. People wouldn't and shouldn't feel sorry for UND for having to forfeit if they clearly went against what they agreed to and knew what would happen if they didn't follow that.

[82SiouxGuy]

If it turned out they weren't bluffing our players would then become forever immortalized as martyrs, and more importantly the NCAA would make themselves look very foolish live on ESPNU. The whole nation would then see this unfold and see the NCAA as the hateful racist organization that they are. It would possibly be the beginning of the end of the NCAA. Who knows how bad the backlash would be against them?

Nothing will help recruit players more than telling them you are willing to forfeit tournament games for a "just cause". That will bring in the stars. And the 200 people outside of North Dakota and Minnesota that were watching the game would have been just horrified. I'm sure that would have totally destroyed the NCAA.

[Teeder11]

If it turned out they weren't bluffing our players would then become forever immortalized as martyrs, and more importantly the NCAA would make themselves look very foolish live on ESPNU. The whole nation would then see this unfold and see the NCAA as the hateful racist organization that they are. It would possibly be the beginning of the end of the NCAA. Who knows how bad the backlash would be against them?

The whole nation!!! On ESPNU? :lol: You do have delusions of grandeur. Thanks for the heartiest laugh of the night. (1) College hockey wouldn't draw an audience share in the U.S. that would come close to getting the desired effect you are looking for, even if it was televised on ESPN (The Flagship) in primetime. (2) As was stated already, the nation isn't going to burn down the NCAA over a college hockey team from North Dakota that decided to thumb its nose in the face of the organization that makes the club rules, and that even came to an agreement with the school that the team represents. Besides, they've (NCAA) got their heads in a tizzy over two-years-worth of phone and text records for the Baylor women's basketball coach right now. In other words, they've got bigger fish to fry than UND right now, as usual.