Conference Realignments - Take 2

[Yote 53]

I've said it once and I'll say it again.  The answer to the Summit's problems is not to shoehorn schools into the conference that are not a fit, the answer is for the current schools to align their sports offerings, even if it means an expansion in our athletic departments.  It should be as simple as "want to be a Summit member then you need to offer men's baseball or men's soccer or both".  If that means women's sports needs expansion to meet Title 9 requirements then so be it.

In short, USD and UND need to bring back baseball and the Summit will be just fine.

[zonadub]

Drop tennis. Add men’s soccer. Baseball might be a tough sale.

[Gothmog]

5 hours ago, Yote 53 said:

I've said it once and I'll say it again.  The answer to the Summit's problems is not to shoehorn schools into the conference that are not a fit, the answer is for the current schools to align their sports offerings, even if it means an expansion in our athletic departments.  It should be as simple as "want to be a Summit member then you need to offer men's baseball or men's soccer or both".  If that means women's sports needs expansion to meet Title 9 requirements then so be it.

In short, USD and UND need to bring back baseball and the Summit will be just fine.

It seems very unlikely to me that the Summit membership would ever permit the league to lose its autobid for lack of a Baseball or Soccer program. IMO, that's just not going to happen. The league is too valuable to its members. If it became necessary someone would find the funds and solve the problem

[SiouxVolley]

57 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

It seems very unlikely to me that the Summit membership would ever permit the league to lose its autobid for lack of a Baseball or Soccer program. IMO, that's just not going to happen. The league is too valuable to its members. If it became necessary someone would find the funds and solve the problem

Been saying the Summit has a plan ever since UND joined and probably way before.  But UND dropped baseball soon before it joined.

UND and USD are shoehorned in, without meeting those baseball and men’s soccer requirements, as if it is expecting football to meet the conference requirements, which will happen.  

[Gothmog]

8 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Been saying the Summit has a plan ever since UND joined and probably way before.  But UND dropped baseball soon before it joined.

UND and USD are shoehorned in, without meeting those baseball and men’s soccer requirements, as if it is expecting football to meet the conference requirements, which will happen.  

Nonsense, it would be much easier for Douple to find a couple of schools willing to step up to adding a popular sport like baseball or soccer than it would be to start a new football league. The Summit league only has 5 current football schools (or will next year), which is not enough to qualify for a football autobid, and those schools are already members of a stable and very competitive football conference. AT this point, the Summit League adding football would only serve to potentially endanger UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, and WIU's FCS football autobid with zero benefit to any of those schools. Your ideas make no sense at all.

[SiouxVolley]

28 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Nonsense, it would be much easier for Douple to find a couple of schools willing to step up to adding a popular sport like baseball or soccer than it would be to start a new football league. The Summit league only has 5 current football schools (or will next year), which is not enough to qualify for a football autobid, and those schools are already members of a stable and very competitive football conference. AT this point, the Summit League adding football would only serve to potentially endanger UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, and WIU's FCS football autobid with zero benefit to any of those schools. Your ideas make no sense at all.

Like who would be joining for baseball and men’s soccer?  DII teams that won’t be DI for five years? Both of those sports are needed by the Horizon and MVC, so there is no pickings for existing DI teams.  Even UMKC declined adding baseball and skipped to the WAC.  It has been proven that UMKC won’t add baseball for a Summit bid.  Your ideas make zero sense.

Douple has next to nothing to do with expansion.  The expansion committee is chaired by SDSU’s President, or used to be. The Presidents vote on new members and then tell Douple of their decision.  Why would SDSU not demand UND keep baseball before joining?  Commissioners only are key in conferences  membership decisions that have major cable or Network contracts where the broadcast partners can block a new addition or bless it. 

[SiouxVolley]

UMKC just got a quarter million $ gift for women’s bb, but nothing for a baseball team.

http://www.umkckangaroos.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18300&ATCLID=211807958

[Gothmog]

32 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Like who would be joining for baseball and men’s soccer?  DII teams that won’t be DI for five years? Both of those sports are needed by the Horizon and MVC, so there is no pickings for existing DI teams.  Even UMKC declined adding baseball and skipped to the WAC.  It has been proven that UMKC won’t add baseball for a Summit bid.  Your ideas make zero sense.

Douple has next to nothing to do with expansion.  The expansion committee is chaired by SDSU’s President, or used to be. The Presidents vote on new members and then tell Douple of their decision.  Why would SDSU not demand UND keep baseball before joining?  Commissioners only are key in conferences  membership decisions that have major cable or Network contracts where the broadcast partners can block a new addition or bless it. 

The obvious point is that current Summit schools would add sports like baseball or soccer. No expansion necessary. 

At the moment, there is no problem with the Summit's autobid. And as I said, the Summit schools, especially the ones along I29, won't ever allow there to be a problem. You're imagining a problem that doesn't exist and probably never will.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Gothmog

[SiouxVolley]

1 minute ago, Gothmog said:

The obvious point is that existing schools would add sports like baseball or soccer. No expansion necessary. 

At the moment, there is no problem with the Summit's autobid. And as I said, the Summit schools, especially the ones along I29, won't ever allow there to be a problem. You're imagining a problem that doesn't exist and probably never will.

So UND and USD are going to add baseball and men’s soccer per Gothmog.

A move like that would consign both schools to mediocrity in those sports and the Title lX adds too.  No wonder Gothmog is for it.

Getting four to six more football schools would elevate the status of the whole Summit Conference, but that wouldn’t be in your interest.

[The Sicatoka]

On 8/1/2019 at 1:45 PM, jdub27 said:

... it is ignorant to ignore how close to the edge the Summit is regarding the MBB autobid and that they have already had to use a waiver a few years back to keep it while Omaha finished their transition.

That was worth repeating. 

As I've said before, if the Summit loses one school that sponsors soccer or baseball the clock starts on the MBB autobid disappearing. 

To refresh your memories ... 

 

On 10/18/2018 at 3:50 PM, The Sicatoka said:

The Summit has a vicious problem starting at them: 

Lose Fort Wayne and lose the BB autobid (because you take a double hit: you no longer have enough baseball or mens soccer schools). 
Lose Western Illinois and lose the BB autobid (because you take a double hit: you no longer have enough baseball or mens soccer schools).
The same goes for Oral Roberts and Omaha. 

Yes, any of those four schools jump ship and the BB autobid goes away.
Any of those four cut baseball or mens soccer and the BB autobid goes away. 

Fort Wayne would jump to the Horizon the heartbeat they were invited. Western would go to the OVC just as quickly. And Oral Roberts would have to at least ponder a conference that didn't involve the Dakotas in months ending in Y. 

The Summit would be well-served to bring football in-house and thus eliminate the need to sponsor soccer and baseball to keep the BB autobid (as football would serve in their place). The Summit will have five FCS schools come fall 2020. It just takes one more (assuming Western still in). 

 

[SiouxVolley]

29 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

That was worth repeating. 

As I've said before, if the Summit loses one school that sponsors soccer or baseball the clock starts on the MBB autobid disappearing. 

To refresh your memories ... 

 

 

The Summit won’t have an autobid for FCS for two years even with.a new football school as they haven’t been together for two years.

But if UND, Montana, Montana St, Idaho, Weber St ad EWU join at the same time they will, as they have been conference mates for more than two consecutive years.  Those six satisfy the NCAA rules for an autobid.

UND joining the MVFC for one year destroys that option.

[zonadub]

Asking because I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Would it be possible to bring the MVFC in under the Summit League? Does the MVC have enough non-football sports to no be threatened with loss of auto bids? If I recall correctly, the MVFC is not actually a league under the MVC. Would the MVC schools be willing to allow the MVFC to become a Summit conference to stabilize the situation?

[bison73]

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

So UND and USD are going to add baseball and men’s soccer per Gothmog.

A move like that would consign both schools to mediocrity in those sports and the Title lX adds too.  No wonder Gothmog is for it.

Getting four to six more football schools would elevate the status of the whole Summit Conference, but that wouldn’t be in your interest.

He said no such thing.  Can you not just reply to a post without the extreme extrapolation

[SiouxVolley]

38 minutes ago, zonadub said:

Asking because I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Would it be possible to bring the MVFC in under the Summit League? Does the MVC have enough non-football sports to no be threatened with loss of auto bids? If I recall correctly, the MVFC is not actually a league under the MVC. Would the MVC schools be willing to allow the MVFC to become a Summit conference to stabilize the situation?

The MVC isn’t formally attached to the MVFC, hence separate names.  The MVC needs men’s basketball, baseball and men’s soccer to maintain its autobid just like the Summit.  The NCAA considers the MVFC to be a single sports conference.

The Summit could take the MVFC under its umbrella, but it still would not have the necessary six Summit members to count for the conference autobid so the Summit is still screwed unless Northern Iowa or Illinois State join the Summit, which will not happen because of $’s, prestige and 2nd and 3rd bids.

[SiouxVolley]

14 minutes ago, bison73 said:

He said no such thing.  Can you not just reply to a post without the extreme extrapolation

You are such a damn hypocrite.  That’s what you do all the time but you want to protect another troll.

[bison73]

17 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

You are such a damn hypocrite.  That’s what you do all the time but you want to protect another troll.

There you again with the lies.  Fact is Gothmog said no such thing. 

[SiouxVolley]

2 hours ago, Gothmog said:

The obvious point is that current Summit schools would add sports like baseball or soccer. No expansion necessary. 

At the moment, there is no problem with the Summit's autobid. And as I said, the Summit schools, especially the ones along I29, won't ever allow there to be a problem. You're imagining a problem that doesn't exist and probably never will.

The two Summit schools without both baseball and men’s soccer are UND and USD.  He suggested that those schools missing those two sports should add them.  I guess in bison73turd’s book, that excludes them.

[bison73]

On 8/1/2019 at 1:45 PM, jdub27 said:

Frankly, it should be if you care about anything other than football. I don't buy all the crazy movements predicted but it is ignorant to ignore how close to the edge the Summit is regarding the MBB autobid and that they have already had to use a waiver a few years back to keep it while Omaha finished their transition.

Im really not worried about it as I am sure the powers that be will have it all worked out. Plus to tell you the truth Im not a big believer of auto bids. So its not an obsession with me.

[bison73]

3 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The two Summit schools without both baseball and men’s soccer are UND and USD.  He suggested that those schools missing those two sports should add them.  I guess in bison73turd’s book, that excludes them.

Oh my look whose triggered.

[SiouxVolley]

8 minutes ago, bison73 said:

Im really not worried about it as I am sure the powers that be will have it all worked out. Plus to tell you the truth Im not a big believer of auto bids. So its not an obsession with me.

Your a brainless beast of a mouse.  Take away the Summits autobid and next to no conference money would be coming in and NDSU looses its Dance bid it just got.  The Dance bid is why most presidents want DI.  But what else to expect from a troll turd.

For the millionth time, not worried about the Summit because it’s going to sponsor football.  Only stating the repercussions if it doesn’t, which trolls refuse to take seriously.

[bison73]

26 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Your a brainless beast of a mouse.  Take away the Summits autobid and next to no conference money would be coming in and NDSU looses its Dance bid it just got.  The Dance bid is why most presidents want DI.  But what else to expect from a troll turd.

For the millionth time, not worried about the Summit because it’s going to sponsor football.  Only stating the repercussions if it doesn’t, which trolls refuse to take seriously.

Are you unable to have a  conversation with out lying and name calling?

As Ive said I dont care for the auto bid. If you arent able to make the tournament because you are good enough you shouldnt be there.  And yes if we dont make the tourney then so be it.

I dont see why that concept is so difficult to comprehend.

[SiouxVolley]

26 minutes ago, bison73 said:

Are you unable to have a  conversation with out lying and name calling?

As Ive said I dont care for the auto bid. If you arent able to make the tournament because you are good enough you shouldnt be there.  And yes if we dont make the tourney then so be it.

I dont see why that concept is so difficult to comprehend.

More evidence that you are a fool and an idiot and that isn’t name calling but simple facts.

The Summit wouldn’t have got a bid in its history and would be a cash burning operation.

 

[bison73]

41 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

More evidence that you are a fool and an idiot and that isn’t name calling but simple facts.

The Summit wouldn’t have got a bid in its history and would be a cash burning operation.

 

We actually agree on something.  As I said---if you arent good enough you shouldnt be in the tourney. I know that concept is lost on those that believe in participation ribbons.

 

As usual your definition of facts is dubious at best.

[jdub27]

22 minutes ago, bison73 said:

We actually agree on something.  As I said---if you arent good enough you shouldnt be in the tourney. I know that concept is lost on those that believe in participation ribbons.

Yeah, this is a poor take as it relates to basketball. The deck is stacked against the low and mid major schools. Removing the autobid to for basketball would absolutely decimate the programs in that conference not to mention the financial implications of losing the NCAA money. 

[bison73]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

Yeah, this is a poor take as it relates to basketball. The deck is stacked against the low and mid major schools. Removing the autobid to for basketball works absolutely decimate the programs in that conference not to mention the financial implications of losing the NCAA money. 

Oh I understand the financial implications and all of the scenarios involved.  I was just explaining my personal point of view. I guess its an old school thing that you should be good to advance to the post season. There was a time when that was the requirement.