cberkas Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Would think that Mandan next to the Tesoro Refiner would be that lead location. Has plenty of water and the new plant could link into Tesoro's utilities for some of the rest like demin water, instrument air, nitrogen etc. A cracker plant heats up ethane for milliseconds to 1500 F and then needs an immediate quench. A lot of cooling water is needed so that eliminates a lot of locations because they won't have much raw river water. Jamestown next to the new fertilizer plant has a lot of synergies, but probably not enough cooling capacity. The southern valley like Wahpeton and Fargo probably have the same problem, especially in a drought. What Grand Forks has going for it would be possible synergies on utilities with the new fertilizer plant, easy rail access to the industrial Midwest, a new water plant that could be designed to handle the increased flows to and from the river, and infrastructure. Also, there might be a propane line built to Mentor where there is caverns to store propane for the Minnesota winter, so an NGL line containing Ethane and propane could be processed in GF would have dual purposes. Think Mandan gets it, but Grand Forks could sneak in. The fertilizer people raved about the location, and there's a lot of alkali land out there that would be available. The plant would need two square miles, so it would be huge. Guessing it would produce a unit train of pellets day day, so transportation is a major consideration. The pipeline probable costs a million a mile, so that is a major negative. It doesn't look like there is enough room next to Tesoro Refinery on the North end along the Missouri River. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewUNDAlum Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 There is a rumor going around that a petro plant or a refinery is in the works in Minot as well. Minot is in the process of moving dirt for the Port of North Dakota. Plans are for it to be the biggest railroad export hub between Seattle and Chicago. Another note of development for the Minot area, apparently Cosco might be building a store in SW Minot as well as WholeFoods looking at the market. SW Minot has a couple of impressive developments called Southgate and Southwest Crossing. I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with the area but it is seeing a boom in commercial growth including: 2 hotels, Cash Wise grocery store, Sonic, Fudruckers, Wells Fargo, Gordmans, luxury apartments, as well as a few more restaurants and retail stores. Currently being built is a professional office park, a single family home development called Beaver Creek, supposedly Cosco and signs just went up for a new hospital coming soon. Pretty exciting stuff going on throughout North Dakota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It doesn't look like there is enough room next to Tesoro Refinery on the North end along the Missouri River. Because cooling water will be critical, if Mandan doesn't have a spot Wilton, washburn, or Stanton could. Bismarck would still benefit. Many of the workers at the Beulah plant live in Bis-Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 There is a rumor going around that a petro plant or a refinery is in the works in Minot as well. Minot is in the process of moving dirt for the Port of North Dakota. Plans are for it to be the biggest railroad export hub between Seattle and Chicago. Another note of development for the Minot area, apparently Cosco might be building a store in SW Minot as well as WholeFoods looking at the market. SW Minot has a couple of impressive developments called Southgate and Southwest Crossing. I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with the area but it is seeing a boom in commercial growth including: 2 hotels, Cash Wise grocery store, Sonic, Fudruckers, Wells Fargo, Gordmans, luxury apartments, as well as a few more restaurants and retail stores. Currently being built is a professional office park, a single family home development called Beaver Creek, supposedly Cosco and signs just went up for a new hospital coming soon. Pretty exciting stuff going on throughout North Dakota. There a company called Quantum Energy that hopes to build five plants in the Bakken for degassing the oil and stripping off diesel. Think the first was annouced for Baker Mt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Because cooling water will be critical, if Mandan doesn't have a spot Wilton, washburn, or Stanton could. Bismarck would still benefit. Many of the workers at the Beulah plant live in Bis-Man. You can build it further North past the developments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 A new company, Badlands NGLs, will build a cracker plant... THIS is why UND needed a VP for Diversity. We're fixing to put out even more crackers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxman Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 There is another obvious location, right next to the Basin Electric Antelope Valley power plants and coal gasification plant at Beulah. The site has a large water pipeline from Lake Sakakawea to the site, heavy duty rail service directly to the site, it is close to the oil development, etc. Haven't heard anything about the chances for the site, but it likely has the infrastructure. The question might be proximity to Theodore Roosevelt National Park and any potential environmental emissions concerns related to air quality in the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 A couple beat me to it: the area around the mines/power stations would have most of the same infrastructure as they have similar needs. Pipeline is a million a mile at least; but railroad (new track) is no cheaper per mile either. They're adding track to the N/S section along I-29 between Fargo and Grand Forks* and I believe that's the number I read (a million a mile). *Is that for that bullet train? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The Stanton area has the best shot IMHO. Existing power plant, rail, commutable to Bismarck, nearby water source. Badlands NGLs will open an office is Bismarck. Polyethene production is exploding in the U.S. because ethane is so cheap. In Europe and East Asia, PE plants are closing because it's so much cheaper to import from the US, Qatar, or Saudi Arabia. The one thing GF has going for it is that it is closer to Midwest markets and ports like Duluth and Churhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Word is the Plant will be built near Bismarck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Word is the Plant will be built near Bismarck. I I wouldn't doubt that, as the Missouri River water is reliably there for cooling and steam generation. The Badlands company has opened a Bismarck office for dealing with permits and making procurements, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the immediate Bismarck area is where the plant will go. So many of plants are being constructed in Texas and Louisiana for export of polyethylene to Europe, Japan, and China, so this plant needs to be the cheapest producer for the Midwest. The Williston area has a 50% surcharge on building anything. If Williston didn't have such a high cost environment, it would be chosen. The Williston Basin producing so much nat gas, ethane, and propane, if this plant gets built and produces at lower cost, wouldn't be surprised if another one gets built, plus a polypropylene plant, plus a massive gas to liquids (GTL) plant that makes gasoline from nat gas, plus more fertilizer plants. Ohio and Pennsylvania are projected to produce so much nat gas that it will swamp other producers, so Illinois would find cheaper gas from Ohio and Pa. Already, about five LNG export terminals are planned, and nat gas pipelines that used to flow into the Northeast are changing directions to flow south and wes. In a couple years, ND will be awash in natural gas and states east and south of Minnesota will have cheaper sources. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Your right about PA and Ohio much of the NGL will be shipped to Louisiana for processing and on to Europe. ND will be a low cost producer. Europe energy costs are so much higher so they are buying the polypropylene from the US. Thank you Bakken and fracing. The Denver Business Journal reported it is in Bismarck. They already have a permit to build. Amazing a 2 year payoff in 2 years from beginning of production. The plant will own about 2% of the world market share. I believe more plants will be built. As Williston finishes the new rail facility for the west coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niouxsiouxfan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Cant get rid of oil, plain and simple. GOVERNMENT relies too heavily on it. Why do you suppose not going more nuclear, or finding more feasible way to harness renewable energy? Oil is the cash cow for everyone, but the consumer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Renewable energy is mega expense and not enough to supply our needs. The is why we need fossil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Renewable energy is mega expense and not enough to supply our needs. The is why we need fossil. Fossil is renewable. Energy is never created or destroyed. Too many people forget about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison73 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Cant get rid of oil, plain and simple. GOVERNMENT relies too heavily on it. Why do you suppose not going more nuclear, or finding more feasible way to harness renewable energy? Oil is the cash cow for everyone, but the consumer Oil is much more than energy. The product line from petroleum is endless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Renewable energy is mega expense and not enough to supply our needs. The is why we need fossil. Maybe if Lockheed Martin has fusion in the bag as they claim with a revised tokamack reactor. But then the world will be beholden to Bolivia for lithium, China for rate earth metals, and Russia for platinum and palladium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Maybe if Lockheed Martin has fusion in the bag as they claim with a revised tokamack reactor. But then the world will be beholden to Bolivia for lithium, China for rate earth metals, and Russia for platinum and palladium. Oh no. Surely LockMart has created their claimed advance using only free-range switch-grass, organically-grown bamboo, and unicorn farts, because mining lithium, platinum, palladium, and rare earth metals is nasty, dirty business that makes strip-mining coal seem like work done by brain surgeons in a clean room. If we have to mine those things for clean, fusion energy the environmentalists will still have a hissy-fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 If the environmental crazies can tax and control the monies and dialogue they will always scream hiss-fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Oh no. Surely LockMart has created their claimed advance using only free-range switch-grass, organically-grown bamboo, and unicorn farts, because mining lithium, platinum, palladium, and rare earth metals is nasty, dirty business that makes strip-mining coal seem like work done by brain surgeons in a clean room. If we have to mine those things for clean, fusion energy the environmentalists will still have a hissy-fit. Around Iowa they're complaining because the wind mill farms, many of whom are indirectly owned by Berkshire Hathaway aka Warren Buffett, are killing birds and disturbing wildlife. In California they're crying because the large solar farms create so much heat from the Sun they actually roast birds in mid-flight. As for "green" energy in general, my company is making a $30 Billion bet that it's not a "fad" through investments and loans. That said, various fossil fuels will be around in different mixes for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The fact your company is investing $30 billion in green energy is fine with me as long as it doesn't involve taxpayer money. That would be a total waste of taxpayer money. Germany's economy is collapsing under green energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The fact your company is investing $30 billion in green energy is fine with me as long as it doesn't involve taxpayer money. That would be a total waste of taxpayer money. Germany's economy is collapsing under green energy. Throw out taxpayer dollars subsidizing oil and gas producers, and the ethanol producers, and I'm with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodak78 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Oil and gas producers are not subsidized. Ethanol are subsidized and I'm with you on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Oil and gas producers are not subsidized. Ethanol are subsidized and I'm with you on that. Really?http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux rube Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Lisa Ling documents women in the oil patch tonight at 9 on CNN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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