Where have all the Goals gone?

[brianvf]

"Where have you gone Chay Genoway, our Sioux team turns it's lonely eyes to you."

[sprig]

I think they could because of the goalie play. I watched a couple of those old early 80's games and it's amazing. The goalies were all stand-up style and it was amazing what got through sometimes.

I agree with whoever said it earlier that the goalie position had the greatest potential to increase in proficiency, and between styles and technology (equipment growth) it has fulfilled much of that promise, IMO.

I think that probably is a huge contributing factor. Goalies should have taken heed of 2 year old snow angel goalies long ago. and the fact that no one could score against them when similarly aged kids could not shoot the puck over them.

Top corners are difficult to hit for all but the best of snipers, and 5 hole goals (that used to be the most common goal scored) are now not that common any longer (except for occasional softies, of course).

The Genoway stat is unbelievable, any one player just should not make that big a difference.

[Irish]

I agree that goals are generally harder to come by now than 20 years ago for a variety of reasons - What i was refering to was the stunning lack of Sioux goals in comparison to other current teams. When the top Sioux scorer is tied for 25th in the WCHA, this is a situation that needs some getting used to. Like I mentioned, Minnesota Duluth has 4 of the top 10 scorers. We just don't seem to have any firepower. I agree that losing Genoway hurt, but if the entire team's production is affected this much by the loss of one player, something is out of balance. I am seriously worried about the future - the reason? Check out this year's upperclassmen and compare them to last year - Name one who is having a significantly better year this year? We just don't seem to be getting better. Are we this low in talent? What has to change to get some more goals? (Sorry if I sound like your Aunt Brianvf but this really concerns me)

[jodcon]

Regardless of what we all think are the reasons for the lack of scoring by the Sioux the last couple months, one thing is certain...this club is going to have to grind out wins in low-scoring games the rest of the way. Getting Hextall back will help, but it doesn't appear we can win any game where the opponent scores more than 2 goals unless it is against a very bad team, we've only scored 4 goals once since Dec. 4.

Looks like we might be breaking out the Rolaids often the rest of the way.

[yababy8]

Shooters had openings all over to shoot at. Now, you either have to be a sniper or have a darn good move to score.

OR pass the puck across the net (not to fast!) to the open man and have him not miss the net..

OR post up a forward behind the open net side corner to be in position to gobble up a rebound or feed-like in the old days-instead of skating around the net like an A.D.D. kid who forgot to take his meds..--> a little harsh but true..

[Blackheart]

Regardless of what we all think are the reasons for the lack of scoring by the Sioux the last couple months, one thing is certain...this club is going to have to grind out wins in low-scoring games the rest of the way. Getting Hextall back will help, but it doesn't appear we can win any game where the opponent scores more than 2 goals unless it is against a very bad team, we've only scored 4 goals once since Dec. 4.

Looks like we might be breaking out the Rolaids often the rest of the way.

Well, if this keeps up, we won't need too many more Rolaids as it will be a short playoff run.

[Sterling]

can Jocelyne and Monique play for the men's team?

[The Sicatoka]

Why no scoring?

- Today's goalie pads look more like sofa cushions. I'm pretty sure one of Brad Eidsness' leg pads is the size of both of Jon Casey's combined. The rest of the goalie gear has "super-sized" also.

- The "butterfly" goaltending style. You've taken away the bottom quarter of the net (with sofa cushions).

- Coaches. Can you imagine "Curious" George Gwozdecky teaching a toe-drag move? I'd guess he can't. Can you imagine him teaching a sweep check? Yup. Same for Eaves, Jutting, and most of the rest, including Hak. And with the sweep check style comes the demand for "basketball players on skates" because they'll have even longer reaches and longer sticks.

- Systems. I'm so tired of seeing skaters skate away from loose pucks (especially in the offensive zone) because their 'system' says so. "Third man high, four men across the blue line, five men inside the dots." <-- All those are clogging up the ice for the creative scorers.

I was harping about the dearth of scoring (across all hockey) a couple years ago. Brad Schlossman of the Herald wrote a couple stories and blogs on it. He had data showing that the average total goals scored per WCHA game has fallen from over nine per game to now about five per game. Put another way, in an average two-game series in the mid-1980s you'd see 18 or 19 (scores like 6-3 and 7-2) total goals on the weekend. Today you'll see 9 or 10 total goals on the weekend (scores like 3-1 and 3-2).

Allow me to give my opinion on this overall trend.

I. Hate. Soccer.

If hockey continues to become soccer it'll lose me.

[The Sicatoka]

Oh, I have a solution for this also.

Variable value goals. ... WHAT!?!?! ... Yup.

You get "points" based on the number of defenders in the defensive zone when the puck crossed the blue line.

- clean break away? Just the goalie was back: 1 point.

- a trapping team has four in the zone (plus goalie) when you dump and before it comes out you net it? 5 points.

- 3 on 2 rush and you score? 3 points (2 defensemen plus goalie)

- empty net goal? I can't decide if 0 or 1 (courtesy) point.

Oh, and one more: If you shoot and the puck goes directly to the goalie who directs it straight out of play: 1 point for you.

You could have a game where you score one "goal" and yet tally 12 points (say a "six point" goal plus six shots their goalie put out of play).

Impossible system to keep track of you say? I say "television replay".

What would this encourage? Have more guys lean to the offensive end (so you wouldn't give up "six point" goals).

Hey, it's Friday with no games. You had to expect something wacky from me.

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

Not sure where to put this, so I'll just throw it into a thread...

I don't know if anyone read USCHO's This Week in the WCHA article, but in the Odds And Ends section at the end, she brings up a good point about our team at this point in the season and asks the questions I've been wondering for a while.

I caught some of the Pioneers-Sioux game on TV Friday night and it struck me how lost UND looked on the ice. I know that the team hasn

[dagies]

Not sure where to put this, so I'll just throw it into a thread...

I don't know if anyone read USCHO's This Week in the WCHA article, but in the Odds And Ends section at the end, she brings up a good point about our team at this point in the season and asks the questions I've been wondering for a while.

Just wanted to bring it up. I haven't been keeping up in perusing these forums as of late, so I don't know if it was already brought up. Sorry if it's already been talked about.

I watched 2 periods of Friday's game. I don't recall that at all. I recall thinking the Sioux were outplaying Denver. It's just that they didn't score.

[DamStrait]

I watched 2 periods of Friday's game. I don't recall that at all. I recall thinking the Sioux were outplaying Denver. It's just that they didn't score.

I agree - the Sioux outplayed DU for most of the weekend (all but the first 3 minutes on Friday and after DU scored their first goal on Saturday). Just can't finish.

[mksioux]

Allow me to give my opinion on this overall trend.

I. Hate. Soccer.

If hockey continues to become soccer it'll lose me.

Good post. Hockey has already started to lose me.

It's still a relatively exciting sport to watch in person, but it's getting more difficult to watch it on TV. I find myself changing channels during hockey games, which I never did as a kid. Hockey used to be a much more exciting and entertaining sport than it has become. Yes, it's always been fun to see a goalie make a series of spectacular saves, and I can appreciate a defensive struggle now and again. But it seems like the defensive struggle is the norm nowadays and not the exception. The defensive systems are making odd-man rushes (arguably the most exciting thing about hockey) an endangered species. And when a team does break through the defensive system, the goalie usually makes the save. And the saves are generally of a routine nature and not particularly spectacular given the big pads and the butterfly style.

Hockey is about entertainment and there is very little entertaining about defensive systems. You can't fault coaches because they are paid to win and playing a defensive system is a proven winner. The governing authorities of hockey need to reward offensive systems and punish defensive systems. Other than cracking down on obstruction, I don't really know how to do that. Maybe others have ideas.

Also, I know this makes purists' blood boil, but I really don't see a problem increasing the width and heighth of the goal posts. You can regulate the size of the pads to a certain extent, but you can't compromise safety. And the goalies can legitimately argue that with the increase in technology with the sticks, they need bigger pads for their safety. And there is nothing you can do about the butterfly style, which is here to stay. The one thing you can do is increase the size of the net. Baseball lowered the height of the mound because pitching was getting too dominant. Football has changed where you kick off from because there were too many touchbacks and has also narrowed the hash marks on the field to increase offense. Basketball fundamentally changed the game with the 3-point line and the shot clock. There's no reason hockey can't tweak the size of the net for the overall sake of the game.

[Goon]

Hockey is about entertainment and there is very little entertaining about defensive systems. You can't fault coaches because they are paid to win and playing a defensive system is a proven winner. The governing authorities of hockey need to reward offensive systems and punish defensive systems. Other than cracking down on obstruction, I don't really know how to do that. Maybe others have ideas.

This is why the NHL has become more exciting to watch than college hockey. Defensive hockey is boring to watch, if I wanted to watch that crap I would be a EZAC fan, even the Badgers have become a scoring team. I wish the WCHA leadership would pull their heads out of their fourth point of contact and start calling the game like the NHL, of course the parity would go away but it would open up the scoring. If the refs don't call the obstruction, holding, picks and other bravo sierra they pretty much put the game on even footing. When the DU Pioneers scored their two goals last Friday the Pioneers colasped around the DU net and there is no way to get inside of the dots, also with allowing the subtle picks, obstruction and holding what can you do to defeat that? You can shoot all day from the outside IF you can get across the oppostion's blue line. Last Saturday a goal was scored against the Sioux after they refs failed to call a pick by DU against UND.

[DamStrait]

You can regulate the size of the pads to a certain extent, but you can't compromise safety. And the goalies can legitimately argue that with the increase in technology with the sticks, they need bigger pads for their safety.

I don't think that goalie leg pads are really about protection. The chest protector is much thinner and is protecting far more important parts of the body. The size of leg pads is all about reducing holes for the puck to go into the net. Today's materials offer far more protection than those of the past and can do it with far less material. In my opinion that is what needs to change: Make leg pads much, much smaller in width and drastically reduce the size of the trapper and blocker too. Goalies are going to scream and pitch a fit (and maybe some "purists" too), but it absolutely needs to be done and someone needs to step to the fore and make it happen. Maybe it will take something like Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, etc. all putting pressure on IIHF and/or the NHL to make the change. If these guys speak it will resonate because it will be their records that will be jeopardized. Phase it in gradually if you must, but do it!

[brianvf]

I watched 2 periods of Friday's game. I don't recall that at all. I recall thinking the Sioux were outplaying Denver. It's just that they didn't score.

Agreed. I wasn't sure where she was going with that, as that's not what I saw either. Perhaps she is listening to Sloe Gin's rants too much?

I think this part of her quote says it all:

I did catch only snippets as I was officially watching and working the CC/SCSU game

How long were these snippets?

[dagies]

I don't think that goalie leg pads are really about protection. The chest protector is much thinner and is protecting far more important parts of the body. The size of leg pads is all about reducing holes for the puck to go into the net. Today's materials offer far more protection than those of the past and can do it with far less material. In my opinion that is what needs to change: Make leg pads much, much smaller in width and drastically reduce the size of the trapper and blocker too. Goalies are going to scream and pitch a fit (and maybe some "purists" too), but it absolutely needs to be done and someone needs to step to the fore and make it happen. Maybe it will take something like Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, etc. all putting pressure on IIHF and/or the NHL to make the change. If these guys speak it will resonate because it will be their records that will be jeopardized. Phase it in gradually if you must, but do it!

I agree with you here. I'd rather try backing the equipment sizes down rather than increase the net. However, one or the other....

[dagies]

How long were these snippets?

Between face-offs

[Goon]

I don't think that goalie leg pads are really about protection. The chest protector is much thinner and is protecting far more important parts of the body. The size of leg pads is all about reducing holes for the puck to go into the net. Today's materials offer far more protection than those of the past and can do it with far less material. In my opinion that is what needs to change: Make leg pads much, much smaller in width and drastically reduce the size of the trapper and blocker too. Goalies are going to scream and pitch a fit (and maybe some "purists" too), but it absolutely needs to be done and someone needs to step to the fore and make it happen. Maybe it will take something like Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, etc. all putting pressure on IIHF and/or the NHL to make the change. If these guys speak it will resonate because it will be their records that will be jeopardized. Phase it in gradually if you must, but do it!

If you took a picture of the goalie during the 1980's and compare them to what they are wearing now it's silly. The pads are way too big.

[Knickball2]

Hrkac, Bob Joyce, Ed Belfour, Ian Kidd, Tarek Howard, geez boys, that 87 team was record setting, I would put my

money on that bunch in any era....

[Knickball2]

Hrkac circus was still playing some very tough WCHA opponents..geez how I wish the guys could still

square off like that, I think it eliminates the bull$%!# hits like the one suffered by Genoway, or even the

LaPoint hit. You didn't have knucklehead freshmen taking runs at stars, cause goons would take care of

it...

[dagies]

Hrkac circus was still playing some very tough WCHA opponents..geez how I wish the guys could still

square off like that, I think it eliminates the bull$%!# hits like the one suffered by Genoway, or even the

LaPoint hit. You didn't have knucklehead freshmen taking runs at stars, cause goons would take care of

it...

Or Ian Kidd just about killing the guy from Duluth (I should remember his name but I don't).

Overall I think you and I would agree on the subject, but to say it would eliminate that stuff? That I'm not so sure of.

[jk]

Skeeter Moore, and that was because of a slew-foot on Kidd.

[Big A HG]

The problem is with reducing goalie pad sizes is that it also includes our goalies. So, in the end, I don't think it makes a ton of difference other than the total amount of goals scored.

[DamStrait]

The problem is with reducing goalie pad sizes is that it also includes our goalies. So, in the end, I don't think it makes a ton of difference other than the total amount of goals scored.

...and that's exactly the point.