Where have all the Goals gone?

Irish · February 3, 2010

What's behind the Sioux scoring drought? In looking at the WCHA scoring leaders, the only Sioux in the top 25 are VandVelde with 6 goals and 10 assists and Gregoire with 10 goals and 6 assists (both tied for # 25). The only other Sioux in the top 50 are Trupp and Kristo. In contrast, Minnesota-Duluth has 4 in the top ten.

Season statistics for returners show that Gregoire has 13, VandeVelde 9, Trupp 5, Malone 7, Toews 4 and Zajac 3. For freshmen, Kristo has 8 and no one else has more than 3. Not one returner has taken the next step in his scoring, and other than Kristo, our Freshmen have been silent. Looking at the roster, I can't figure out what gives. Why aren't we scoring at all?

Is the idea that we can run 4 solid lines and wear people down and don't need high end scorers a foolish one?

Do we miss Genoway that much?

Is it our shooting, our passing, or our team speed?

Are we not getting the right recruits to score at this level?

Is it our offensive philosophy? Too much dump and chase and not enough crashing the net?

Are we just snake-bit?

Will things be better next year with pretty much the same team?

Anyone have any thoughts?

brianvf · February 3, 2010

I feel like I'm visiting my aunt with all these questions.

MattC · February 3, 2010

Is it our offensive philosophy? Too much dump and chase and not enough crashing the net?

I have noticed that they have been doing the dump-and-chase a lot lately, although there doesn't seem to be a lot of chase. It also seems like a lot of their shots come from so far away from the net, they can get blocked easily or just plain go wide of the net. I would rather see them crash the net and give themselves a good chance of scoring.

siouxweet · February 3, 2010

What's behind the Sioux scoring drought? In looking at the WCHA scoring leaders, the only Sioux in the top 25 are VandVelde with 6 goals and 10 assists and Gregoire with 10 goals and 6 assists (both tied for # 25). The only other Sioux in the top 50 are Trupp and Kristo. In contrast, Minnesota-Duluth has 4 in the top ten.
Season statistics for returners show that Gregoire has 13, VandeVelde 9, Trupp 5, Malone 7, Toews 4 and Zajac 3. For freshmen, Kristo has 8 and no one else has more than 3. Not one returner has taken the next step in his scoring, and other than Kristo, our Freshmen have been silent. Looking at the roster, I can't figure out what gives. Why aren't we scoring at all?
Is the idea that we can run 4 solid lines and wear people down and don't need high end scorers a foolish one?
Do we miss Genoway that much?
Is it our shooting, our passing, or our team speed?
Are we not getting the right recruits to score at this level?
Is it our offensive philosophy? Too much dump and chase and not enough crashing the net?
Are we just snake-bit?
Will things be better next year with pretty much the same team?
Anyone have any thoughts?

a little bit of all these.

stickboy1956 · February 3, 2010

Fact - the only Sioux players to make an all WCHA team (1st, 2nd or 3rd) since the 05-06 class (Lee, Chorney, Duncan, Oshie Toews, etc.) are Genoway and Eidesness, no forwards.

Fact - no Sioux have made the WCHA all-rookie team since Lee and Oshie did in 05-06.

Kristo will probably be on the all-rookie team this year. I don't see us placing anyone on the all WCHA team this year.

What's happened is that the skill players brought in since 05 haven't panned out, at least not to the extent we have been used to at the beginning of the decade (Parisie, Stafford, Zajac, etc.).

This is why Brock Nelson may be here sooner than the CW believes.

siouxrunner · February 3, 2010

The current team is scoring at a rate of 2.86 goals/game, which is the lowest in the history of the program (post WWII)

On the other hand, the current team is allowing only 2.21 goals/game, 4th lowest in the history of the program (post WWII)

Personally, I think this says as much about the team's struggles to score as it does about the rise in the importance and competence of goaltending throughout hockey.

It would be interesting to see where this season's goal/game rate ranks when adjusting for differences in NCAA-wide scoring each season.

IdaSioux · February 3, 2010

Fact - the only Sioux players to make an all WCHA team (1st, 2nd or 3rd) since the 05-06 class (Lee, Chorney, Duncan, Oshie Toews, etc.) are Genoway and Eidesness, no forwards.

Fact - no Sioux have made the WCHA all-rookie team since Lee and Oshie did in 05-06.

Kristo will probably be on the all-rookie team this year. I don't see us placing anyone on the all WCHA team this year.

What's happened is that the skill players brought in since 05 haven't panned out, at least not to the extent we have been used to at the beginning of the decade (Parisie, Stafford, Zajac, etc.).

This is why Brock Nelson may be here sooner than the CW believes.

Teams win championships. Who cares about individual accolades?

jodcon · February 3, 2010

The current team is scoring at a rate of 2.86 goals/game, which is the lowest in the history of the program (post WWII)

On the other hand, the current team is allowing only 2.21 goals/game, 4th lowest in the history of the program (post WWII)

Personally, I think this says as much about the team's struggles to score as it does about the rise in the importance and competence of goaltending throughout hockey.

It would be interesting to see where this season's goal/game rate ranks when adjusting for differences in NCAA-wide scoring each season.

Well said.

I mentioned after the Denver series that our defense has been keeping us in games, but didn't do the legwork to crunch the numbers. After looking at this, can you imagine where we'd be if we didn't have the great PK unit and overall solid D that we do? Scary.

stickboy1956 · February 4, 2010

Teams win championships. Who cares about individual accolades?

But it does give a barametor on the talent/achievement level of the forwards that have come since the 05 class.

The Whistler · February 4, 2010

I'm far from an expert but it seems teams are playing defense better. We don't get the scoring opportunities off of rushes like we used to and we don't get time and space when we're on our set offense.

I think it's more of how they're playing us rather than a lack of effort, but then what do I know?

Let'sGoHawks! · February 4, 2010

I feel like I'm visiting my aunt with all these questions.

CLASSIC!

Irish · February 4, 2010

I feel like I'm visiting my aunt with all these questions.

I take it that your Aunt has seen the Sioux play recently.

brianvf · February 4, 2010

I take it that your Aunt has seen the Sioux play recently.

Well, she was formerly married to a Sioux hockey player, so she knows her way around a rink.

Detroit87 · February 4, 2010

Better question is what happened to the scoring over the last twenty years? Look at the stats from the 80's and early 90's to now. First line players today would at best have been third or fourth line players before. How many of the current players today would have even made the '87 team? A couple at best.

LeftyZL · February 4, 2010

Better question is what happened to the scoring over the last twenty years? Look at the stats from the 80's and early 90's to now. First line players today would at best have been third or fourth line players before. How many of the current players today would have even made the '87 team? A couple at best.

Since it appears you're on a roll today with your posts, I'll respond to this one.

The whole game of hockey, especially in the WCHA, has changed to a defensive game. Basing your theory on stats about where certain players would compare to player's of 20 years ago is just plain dumb.

How many points would Hrkac put up in today's league? 50-60 at best in my IMO.

Detroit87 · February 4, 2010

Since it appears you're on a roll today with your posts, I'll respond to this one.

The whole game of hockey, especially in the WCHA, has changed to a defensive game. Basing your theory on stats about where certain players would compare to player's of 20 years ago is just plain dumb.

How many points would Hrkac put up in today's league? 50-60 at best in my IMO.

More like a hundred. What would the 87 team do to any of the 2000 era teams?

Stromer · February 4, 2010

Since it appears you're on a roll today with your posts, I'll respond to this one.

The whole game of hockey, especially in the WCHA, has changed to a defensive game. Basing your theory on stats about where certain players would compare to player's of 20 years ago is just plain dumb.

How many points would Hrkac put up in today's league? 50-60 at best in my IMO.

I would have to agree with you. Just take a look at the goalies from that era in the pregame video. Of course a ton of goals are going to be scored when the goalie just stands there and tries to catch the puck with his glove. The style of play in goalies is totally different from that era to now. Shooters had openings all over to shoot at. Now, you either have to be a sniper or have a darn good move to score.

LeftyZL · February 4, 2010

More like a hundred. What would the 87 team do to any of the 2000 era teams?

It depends on when the game was played, but the 87 team would beat a lot of good teams from today.

Hrkac would never put up a 100 points in a season now.

First, seasons are shorter.

Second, goalies are better. I would say goaltending has made 10x as many strides in the last 20 years as offense has. Goaltender's also had the most area to improve in IMO.

Third, teams overall are better. From top to bottom, there is a lot more parity. A lot more quality teams and players.

Snake · February 4, 2010

Second, goalies are better. I would say goaltending has made 10x as many strides in the last 20 years as offense has. Goaltender's also had the most area to improve in IMO.

They also take up more of the net by virtue of bigger and better equipment.

brianvf · February 4, 2010

More like a hundred. What would the 87 team do to any of the 2000 era teams?

If the game were played with today's rules, the 87 team would spend about 3/4 of the game in the penalty box.

Of course, they were talented enough that they would probably still make a game of it.

sprig · February 4, 2010

If the game were played with today's rules, the 87 team would spend about 3/4 of the game in the penalty box.
Of course, they were talented enough that they would probably still make a game of it.

Very true, and if you go back to the early 80's championship games, the hooking and holding is even more noticeable. It's unreal that those teams could score like they did given the way the game was played.

Sterling · February 4, 2010

we just run into a hot goalie every single night!

dagies · February 4, 2010

Very true, and if you go back to the early 80's championship games, the hooking and holding is even more noticeable. It's unreal that those teams could score like they did given the way the game was played.

I think they could because of the goalie play. I watched a couple of those old early 80's games and it's amazing. The goalies were all stand-up style and it was amazing what got through sometimes.

I agree with whoever said it earlier that the goalie position had the greatest potential to increase in proficiency, and between styles and technology (equipment growth) it has fulfilled much of that promise, IMO.

Detroit87 · February 4, 2010

If the '87 team had played last years team they would have destroyed the '08 team. This is not just my opinion but Eade's as well.