Sioux name in trouble again

[jodcon]

I'm curious as to what the reaction would be by this board if the request is denied and the SBoHE orders UND to start retiring the nickname in Nov?

I honestly could see that happening. Seems like the tribes have had a loooooong time to get their stuff together and this issue needs to be resolved one way or another.

But keep in mind that Murphy (nickname supporter) was only voted in this month, and basically has made it a new ballgame at Standing Rock, so I would be VERY surprised if the SBHE didn't give them some leeway and grant at least a short extension.

[MplsBison]

But keep in mind that Murphy (nickname supporter) was only voted in this month, and basically has made it a new ballgame at Standing Rock, so I would be VERY surprised if the SBHE didn't give them some leeway and grant at least a short extension.

It would seem that way, at least you would think, given that the "true" deadline is Feb. 2010.

However, consider:

- SBoHE is getting restless

- UND is still going to be losing scheduling opportunities, even if they reach a deal with the tribes (Iowa would not participate vs. UND in a swimming meet, for example)

- Even if the tribes say they support the nickname, 30 year deals have to be signed with both. That process itself could take years. Seems really unlikely that it could get done by Feb 2010.

[Stromer]

- UND is still going to be losing scheduling opportunities, even if they reach a deal with the tribes (Iowa would not participate vs. UND in a swimming meet, for example)

Iowa and Wisc will play us now and I don't see why they wouldn't if we get the agreement and get off the NCAA's bad list. It remains to be seen what Minnesota would do, however.

[mizzou/sioux]

Let the people of Standing Rock vote.

[rochsioux]

Hearald article on name status.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/138814/

Under terms of a settlement with the NCAA, which considers American Indian nicknames offensive, UND has until February to win the approval of both Sioux tribes in the state. The Spirit Lake tribe has approved the nickname, but the Standing Rock tribe has not.

I keep seeing this NCAA deadline of Feb, 2010 for approval. This is not true.

The deadline is November 30, 2010 http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/NCA...+Dakota+Lawsuit

During the period granted for UND to seek namesake tribe approval, which expires on November 30, 2010, the school will not be subject to policy restrictions.

We do not have to have a new nickname in place prior to that. If we don't and the sanctions kick in on Dec 1,2010 so what ?

Other than hockey we still aren't eligible for playoffs so missing a home playoff game is not a factor. We can then change the name and all sanctions would be removed long before we are playoff eligible.

[darell1976]

Iowa and Wisc will play us now and I don't see why they wouldn't if we get the agreement and get off the NCAA's bad list. It remains to be seen what Minnesota would do, however.

UND plays Wisconsin in women's basketball this year. When the lawsuit was complete Iowa and Wisconsin removed UND from their ban but Minnesota didn't.

[darell1976]

I'm curious as to what the reaction would be by this board if the request is denied and the SBoHE orders UND to start retiring the nickname in Nov?

I honestly could see that happening. Seems like the tribes have had a loooooong time to get their stuff together and this issue needs to be resolved one way or another.

MplsBison I was thinking the same thing this morning after reading the article. The SBoHE is tired of waiting for action by the Standing Rock and if they get too anxious i can see them saying forget more time end the name now. I think the odds of this happening is down to 50-50. If Murphy tells them give us a month we will have a tribal vote either by just the council or the whole tribe by x day in November then i think the board will approve the deadline.

[GeauxSioux]

UND plays Wisconsin in women's basketball this year. When the lawsuit was complete Iowa and Wisconsin removed UND from their ban but Minnesota didn't.

Mpls is referring to this paragraph in the Sept. IAC meeting....

Logo: The logo controversy continues to impact Athletics. As an example, the UND swimming and diving team was scheduled to travel to Iowa City. The Iowa school was hosting a meet and the University of Illinois was attending. Due to the name/logo, Iowa would not compete against UND but Illinois was on our schedule. UND was recently contacted by Iowa and told they could not participate in an event at their school because of the logo. Until the logo issue is resolved, scheduling will continue to be a major problem.

[rochsioux]

- UND is still going to be losing scheduling opportunities, even if they reach a deal with the tribes (Iowa would not participate vs. UND in a swimming meet, for example)

Let's see how consistent Iowa is in scheduling teams with native american nicknames:

Womens volleyball:

09/05/09 vs. Central Michigan Green Bay, WI

Women's tennis:

10/16/09 Seminole Invite Fall Classic Tallahassee, FL

10/17/09 Seminole Invite Fall Classic Tallahassee, FL

10/18/09 Seminole Invite Fall Classic Tallahassee, FL

From this I must conclude that their policy is that they won't schedule teams with NA nicknames at home but it is OK to play them on the road. Or maybe it's OK in some sports and not others. Or that it is OK once the NCAA waiver is in place. Or that their hypocrites.

[ihatethegophers]

Or that their hypocrites.

This one. (except they're instead of their)

[Sioux-per Villain]

I'm curious as to what the reaction would be by this board if the request is denied and the SBoHE orders UND to start retiring the nickname in Nov?

Exactly what the UND Administration wants......

[choyt3]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/138925/

[MplsBison]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/138925/

From the article:

Murphy told KNOX radio of Grand Forks earlier that he knows some people support a tribal vote on the issue but said it's not clear if or when that will happen.

I still can't believe I'm reading this. The nickname was dead. Deader than a doornail. Then the referendum at Spirit Lake happens and the name is literally brought back from the dead.

All the people of Standing Rock have to do is organize a damned vote and then vote to support the nickname. Yet, even with a new, pro-nickname tribal chairman and tribal council, they're still putzing around like they have until 2015 to get things changed.

If I'm on the SBoHE and I read that...I'm not encouraged that this is going anywhere....

Come on now...how much time do you need to either poop or get off the pot? Does the nickname mean something to you or not?

[dmksioux]

From the article:

I still can't believe I'm reading this. The nickname was dead. Deader than a doornail. Then the referendum at Spirit Lake happens and the name is literally brought back from the dead.

All the people of Standing Rock have to do is organize a damned vote and then vote to support the nickname. Yet, even with a new, pro-nickname tribal chairman and tribal council, they're still putzing around like they have until 2015 to get things changed.

If I'm on the SBoHE and I read that...I'm not encouraged that this is going anywhere....

Come on now...how much time do you need to either poop or get off the pot? Does the nickname mean something to you or not?

My guess is that there is more dialog going on between the tribes and the SBoHE behind the scenes. They do not need to, nor should they, make every step public. Once they have their ducks in a row, I am sure that we will here something.

[Lady'sSlipper]

Grand Forks Herald, Published October 28 2009

N.D. higher ed board chancellor willing to extend UND nickname deadline

By: Associated Press,

The chancellor of the North Dakota University System says he's willing to grant the Standing Rock Sioux tribe 30 more days to consider the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. . . .

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/138925/

[MplsBison]

My guess is that there is more dialog going on between the tribes and the SBoHE behind the scenes. They do not need to, nor should they, make every step public. Once they have their ducks in a row, I am sure that we will here something.

That's fine.

But getting both tribes to agree to 30 year contracts, which is the real requirement (not just to have a tribal vote), is not a trivial thing! These things take time. Meanwhile, back in la-la land, Standing Rock is asking for yet another 30 days to get good and ready to decide if they will have a vote to see if they want to talk about maybe supporting the Sioux nickname, in some form.

[the green team]

I've posted this many times before... if you keep pushing deadlines in working with a Tribal Government, they will continue to utilize this method to constantly gain more extentsions of deadlines. This is just the way they like to play things there. It's not a comment that people should take positively or negatively--its just how things tend to work within tribal government, (Again it isn't good or bad it just is). Thats why, it concerned me when we granted an extension of the deadline because I knew this is the game the SBoHE would be getting itself into. Also, because of this, I could see some on the board perceive this as them not taking the issue seriously or that it may not mean that much to them, and thus just moving to retire the nickname. When deadlines are more adhered to people tend to act

[darell1976]

So if they give them 30 more days now we are looking at Nov 30th, whats next...we will give them til New Years Eve? Then we will give them til April when hockey ends. Where does it end? I do agree with MplsBison....just get a damn vote already and quit messing around. We know the tribe will vote in favor of the nickname (its what RHHIT feared) so vote already. Maybe the higher ed board needs to grow a pair and tell the tribe this is the final deadline and if there is no vote taking place or a date in writing when the vote will happen the name is gone. This waiting til the very last minute of the last day is getting old.

[dansin]

I agree with darell1976, except if they fail to vote by the deadline, then obviously it's not bothering them THAT much, so I think we ought to be able to keep the name, rather than get rid of it as you suggested.

[darell1976]

I agree with darell1976, except if they fail to vote by the deadline, then obviously it's not bothering them THAT much, so I think we ought to be able to keep the name, rather than get rid of it as you suggested.

I think we should keep the name, but maybe they don't want an opinion on the matter, so let's go with the Spirit Lake tribe to speak for both tribes.

[Knickball2]

Higher Ed Board should have just left the deadlines as outlined in the lawsuit, nothing in Indian country ever moves as quickly as it should.

The Tribal Council at Standing Rock is moving as quickly as need be, the new council has more pressing internal reservation issues to deal with, such as winter heating and housing issues. There will eventually be a vote and that vote will be in support of the nickname, tribal elders recognize that the pipe ceremony giving the

university their blessing was sacred.

[Old Time Hockey]

I've posted this many times before... if you keep pushing deadlines in working with a Tribal Government, they will continue to utilize this method to constantly gain more extentsions of deadlines. This is just the way they like to play things there. It's not a comment that people should take positively or negatively--its just how things tend to work within tribal government, (Again it isn't good or bad it just is). Thats why, it concerned me when we granted an extension of the deadline because I knew this is the game the SBoHE would be getting itself into. Also, because of this, I could see some on the board perceive this as them not taking the issue seriously or that it may not mean that much to them, and thus just moving to retire the nickname. When deadlines are more adhered to people tend to act

Not exactly the way I would have worded things but you are correct. Generally speaking, tribal governments do not act as quickly as fed, state and local governments. That said, we need to cut SR some slack on the deadline extension issue. There has been a total transformation in their tribal government. They need time to sort things out internally before going through with this issue. If they rush through this they will be susceptible to a lot of controversy in the future. I am fine with them taking their time and getting the job done right (getting the referendum on a ballot). Now that there is dialogue going on about a name referendum within the tribal council, the SBoHE should have no choice but to grant extensions if requested by SR.

[darell1976]

Chancellor Goetz is on KFGO and he said the SR is going to meet Nov. 10th to discuss the nickname so the board will most likely extend the deadline to Nov. 30th.

[Oxbow6]

Chancellor Goetz is on KFGO and he said the SR is going to meet Nov. 10th to discuss the nickname so the board will most likely extend the deadline to Nov. 30th.

Why not push it back until the end of the year??

Lets say meeting on Nov. 10 goes well and they schedule a tribal vote, you think that is going to get done by Nov. 30th? Unlikely.

The SBoHE continues to make this process more complicated than it needs to be. Give SR some time, stay out of their way and let the chips fall where they may with them. But continually moving the deadline makes the SBoHE look more incompentent than they already are!

[The Sicatoka]

The dates that matter are in the legal agreement between the State and the NCAA.

Dates before those are milestones to keep the process moving forward (as long as the effort is warranted).