Seating For Football At The Alerus

[The Sicatoka]

More information:

From April 29, 2005:

Some Division I-A institutions expressed concerns over one of the criteria that called for average home attendance each season of at least 15,000 fans per game. The board adopted emergency legislation to allow schools to meet the criteria with a minimum average of 15,000 in actual attendance at home football games over a two-year period or an average of 15,000 in paid attendance at all home games.

I underlined some key words and tricky phrases in there. And what does all of that mean in NCAA speak? (See the section on "Attendance Requirements".)

And, here's the NCAA's 2005 reported DI-A attendance numbers (well, the bottom 20 at least):

Rank Team Games Total Avg/Gm

98. Louisiana Tech 5 82,080 16,416

99. Central Mich. 5 79,855 15,971

100. Miami (Ohio) 5 76,203 15,241

101. Idaho 4 60,700 15,175

102. Nevada 6 90,458 15,076

103. Houston 6 90,324 15,054

104. Bowling Green 5 74,644 14,929

105. La.-Monroe 5 73,084 14,617

106. Middle Tenn. St. 5 72,629 14,526

107. Tulane 6 85,450 14,242

108. Ball St. 4 51,810 12,953

109. Temple 5 63,674 12,735

110. New Mexico St. 6 75,339 12,557

111. San Jose St. 5 62,529 12,506

112. Utah St. 5 54,482 10,896

113. Akron 5 54,464 10,893

114. Rice 5 50,362 10,072

115. Buffalo 5 44,572 8,914

116. Kent St. 5 33,292 6,658

117. Eastern Mich. 4 20,874 5,219

[IowaBison]

There's one other detail lost in this.

The 15000 isn't just seats it's (from the 2004-2005 DI manual):

I believe the NCAA has revisited this since then. I'll look.

I think this talk of DI-A is pretty silly (and is as goofy as that school to the south considering it), but there are a couple of points.

1. UND could almost surely count a game against the U as a home game, if Idaho and Wazzu do it, why can't UND? That would bump annual attendance over 15,000 for the year.

2. You only have to (or had, they might have changed the rules) average 15,000 every other year (I'll have to ask Phil Harmeson about that ).

3. The NCAA hasn't enforced the rule anyways. The low end DI-A schools are embarassing, if you can't average more than 3 wins a season or win 5 games every few years (including against DIAA teams) maybe you're in the wrong place. But schools do it anyway, I say let them, they're the ones paying the price.

[The Sicatoka]

... if you can't average more than 3 wins a season or win 5 games every few years (including against DIAA teams) maybe you're in the wrong place. But schools do it anyway, I say let them, they're the ones paying the price.

That's where I fall in this: If the school wants to pay the price of being DI-A (and look at the link above for the additional requirements from DI-AA to DI-A), why should "number of people in seats" even matter?

This is about "student-athlete opportunities", right NCAA?

If the school offers the grants to the athletes that's all that matters, right NCAA?

Worrying about "attendance" or "ticket sales" makes it seem like a professional league, doesn't it NCAA?

[Local Boy]

Seriously? A thread about improvements at The Alerus? Is anybody familiar with the facts of this project?

Annual "Revenues"....3.8 Million.

Tax Contribution...about 400K

Suite and Advertising revenue...880K.

Yes...the taxes are included in their "sales". So, the long and short of it is, this property's daily sales average about that of a successful Pizza Hut.

That's bad. Agreed?

Where will the money come from for these "improvements"?

[dakotadan]

Here we go again...

[DamStrait]

Seriously? A thread about improvements at The Alerus? Is anybody familiar with the facts of this project?

Annual "Revenues"....3.8 Million.

Tax Contribution...about 400K

Suite and Advertising revenue...880K.

Yes...the taxes are included in their "sales". So, the long and short of it is, this property's daily sales average about that of a successful Pizza Hut.

That's bad. Agreed?

Where will the money come from for these "improvements"?

I agree. Why waste all that money on a new facility when they could have just as easily played their games at Pizza Hut?

[GeauxSioux]

I agree. Why waste all that money on a new facility when they could have just as easily played their games at Pizza Hut?

Does a ticket include free salad bar? Cool.

[MplsBison]

1. UND could almost surely count a game against the U as a home game, if Idaho and Wazzu do it, why can't UND? That would bump annual attendance over 15,000 for the year.

Moscow ID to Pullman WA: 9.4 miles

Grand Forks ND to Minneapolsi MN: 315 miles

That might factor into the decision.

[Woden]

I believe (*Edit: I Know) plans for a future football facility are in the works. One that would bring money to the University and not require the University to pay to play there. Before anyone says that's ridiculous, consider this:

-With all of the options for placing a parking ramp on campus, why was the lot in front of Swanson, one of the smallest and farthest away solutions, chosen?

-Also, why was the skyway across Columbia included in the plans, since it offers no parking improvements, which was the original problem?

Here's the short story on this fellas. Plans are in the works for an on-campus stadium to be built basically where memorial is at right now. The old REA and memorial will be taken down, with a practice facility and parking taking over those spots. The Skyway currently under construction will go directly into the new stadium, which will be built over 2nd Ave. With an on-campus stadium, UND will be able to earn more money from its second sport, which will help fund the rest of the programs.

Before you say it's ridiculous, ask yourself if you ever thought a little school in Boise, Idaho could pull it off. And before you go saying Boise State is a much bigger school, look at the enrollment numbers-

Boise State (18,266)

http://enrollmentservices.boisestate.edu/E...ajosSP03-05.pdf

UND (13,187)

http://go.UND.edu/

Let the discussion begin.

Edit:

If found this to be a little interesting.

http://enrollmentservices.boisestate.edu/E...Trends99-04.pdf

Boise State has seen about a 2% growth in enrollment every year since the IA move in '96. The best I can tell, they had around 15,00 students at that time.

Here's some more interesting information on BSU, which I feel is pertinent to this discussion, found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_University

1970 Joined the Big Sky Conference (Division II) for men's athletics

* Bronco Stadium opens with a capacity of 14,500 and Astroturf field

1974 Bronco Stadium adds upper deck to east side: 20,000 capacity.

1978 Big Sky Conference moves to Division I-AA.

1996 Majority of school's athletic programs move to Big West Conference (Wrestling remains in Pac 10).

* Moved to NCAA Division I-A.

* Bronco Stadium capacity expanded to 30,000

[southpaw]

I believe plans for a future football facility are in the works. One that would bring money to the University and not require the University to pay to play there. Before anyone says that's ridiculous, consider this:

-With all of the options for placing a parking ramp on campus, why was the lot in front of Swanson, one of the smallest and farthest away solutions, chosen?

I think the swanson parking area was probably the best choice... given what other options the school had. building it behind tabula would put thousands of students on the opposite side of university. that's a lot of kids crossing the street. the parking lot behind chester fritz is further away from most buildings than swanson. the dorms don't need another parking area... it's the off-campus students that need more parking. behind hyslop is further away than swanson and i'd imagine it would be difficult to build a parking ramp right next to/under columbia ave bridge.

you say "with all the options" but really, swanson parking lot was probably the only good option. it's by no means farthest away from anything but gamble hall, merrifield and twamley.

[Woden]

I think the swanson parking area was probably the best choice... given what other options the school had. building it behind tabula would put thousands of students on the opposite side of university. that's a lot of kids crossing the street. the parking lot behind chester fritz is further away from most buildings than swanson. the dorms don't need another parking area... it's the off-campus students that need more parking. behind hyslop is further away than swanson and i'd imagine it would be difficult to build a parking ramp right next to/under columbia ave bridge.

you say "with all the options" but really, swanson parking lot was probably the only good option. it's by no means farthest away from anything but gamble hall, merrifield and twamley.

OK, why the skyway? Doesn't it seem a little excessive and have no point except to add money to the construction? One step at a time my friend. Trust me.

[Smoggy]

OK, why the skyway? Doesn't it seem a little excessive and have no point except to add money to the construction? One step at a time my friend. Trust me.

Isn't it across Columbia? I believe it is because another parking ramp is going to be going in the Memorial lot in the future.

[MplsBison]

Unless you have insider information, Woden, I would have to agree with smoggy that a skyway would likely connect to a future parking structure, not a new stadium.

The Alerus is 4 years old? You really think the city would let UND get away with leaving?

[Woden]

Unless you have insider information, Woden, I would have to agree with smoggy that a skyway would likely connect to a future parking structure, not a new stadium.

The Alerus is 4 years old? You really think the city would let UND get away with leaving?

Well, I wouldn't say I know if I didn't. These are the plans. Whether they come to life or not is still yet to be seen. These are not events that are going to take 2-3 years. We are talking a 10-15 year plan here. Don't worry, NDSU has plans for an on-campus (before you say the FargoDome is on campus, let me clarify, an institution owned stadium) stadium as well. I know you probably think that's ridiculous, but I know the plans exist. It's too much of a money maker for the schools to not at least look into building a stadium. Plus, both schools are eyeing IA as a final destination, and improvements must be made to both facilities if this is going to happen.

As far as the skywalk being built to connect to another parking ramp, that just doesn't make sense. The parking lot the skywalk ends at (the one north of Memorial for those who don't know) was an option for a parking ramp, and would have made much more sense, since it is bigger and would have greatly increased parking facilities. But that area is being left alone for the future stadium. Believe me or not, we will eventually find out.

[star2city]

Well, I wouldn't say I know if I didn't. These are the plans. Whether they come to life or not is still yet to be seen. These are not events that are going to take 2-3 years. We are talking a 10-15 year plan here. Don't worry, NDSU has plans for an on-campus (before you say the FargoDome is on campus, let me clarify, an institution owned stadium) stadium as well. I know you probably think that's ridiculous, but I know the plans exist. It's too much of a money maker for the schools to not at least look into building a stadium. Plus, both schools are eyeing IA as a final destination, and improvements must be made to both facilities if this is going to happen.

As far as the skywalk being built to connect to another parking ramp, that just doesn't make sense. The parking lot the skywalk ends at (the one north of Memorial for those who don't know) was an option for a parking ramp, and would have made much more sense, since it is bigger and would have greatly increased parking facilities. But that area is being left alone for the future stadium. Believe me or not, we will eventually find out.

Woden:

I don't doubt these long-term plans whatsoever. It would take $50 million minimum for a new stadium, however. Any idea when the practice facility will get built? We need that now. Also, if they demolish Memorial, what would we do for an outdoor track in the mean time?

[Woden]

The practice facility is high on the list of priorities right now. As soon as the money is there, it gets built. As far as an outdoor track is concerned, being as the current one is never used by the track program anyways, they will have to make due with the one being built in the new facility and only have an indoor track. Besides, Memorial will be there until the new stadium is built. The practice facility will go where the old REA is right now, so Memorial will remain for at least the next 10 years.

[bincitysioux]

you say "with all the options" but really, swanson parking lot was probably the only good option. it's by no means farthest away from anything but gamble hall, merrifield and twamley.

It's not very close to Clifford.

[IowaBison]

Before you say it's ridiculous, ask yourself if you ever thought a little school in Boise, Idaho could pull it off. And before you go saying Boise State is a much bigger school, look at the enrollment numbers-

Boise is much larger than Grand Forks and is one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the United States. Grands Forks, to put it gently, is not.

[DamStrait]

Boise is much larger than Grand Forks and is one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the United States. Grands Forks, to put it gently, is not.

And it's the University of North Dakota, not Grand Forks State University.

[IowaBison]

[supersioux]

I would guess that plans for an indoor practice facility would be announced sometime this fall after the facility master plan. After all St. Cloud covers their facilityand MN State Southwest just announced plans for a similair facility, one that will be covered in the winter months for training. I think the biggest question is what it will be like, where it will go, and will it be a competition site for any current sports.

[GeauxSioux]

Attendance requirement may not be an issue.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.d.../607230310/1001

Another reason for changing the I-AA name and including everyone in Division I is scheduling. Currently Division I-A teams can count one game against I-AA opponents each season toward bowl eligibility. Removal of the I-AA moniker could make scheduling easier for all schools in Division I.

"It wouldn't be a conflict in scheduling if everybody was Division I," LaFleur said. "It would be a huge gap between the schools that are I-AA and I-A. I would go for having one moniker."

There would also be benefits to the Division I-A schools. Currently, Division I-A schools have to meet minimum football attendance requirements (average 15,000 fans in actual or paid attendance per home game).

With all schools in Division I, the attendance requirement would no longer be necessary.

"You may also be able to lose the attendance requirements for I-As," Burnett said. "We're all Division I. Why are we worried about attendance. You would just make a decision what championship are you going to play for."

The schools in Division I-A could be Bowl Championship Series schools while schools currently in I-AA could be Playoff Championship Series schools.

[PartTime]

Just what is the seating capacity at the Alerus Center for football? It was always stated that it sat 13,500 for football, but some of the games of past (NDSU and Cal Davis for example) I questioned their count, it seemed pretty well packed and they came up with like 12,200 or something like that for the attendance. Within the last few months it has come up that the Alerus Center only seats around 12,300 or so, whether thats true or not I don't know. Yesterday's Potato Bowl Game they say drew 10,333. I was at the game and yes, there was sparse seating in the corner/ends, but 3,200 empty seats in the place? Didn't look like it to me. Anyways, I'm asking out of curiousity, I'd like to know.

[UND92,96]

Just what is the seating capacity at the Alerus Center for football? It was always stated that it sat 13,500 for football, but some of the games of past (NDSU and Cal Davis for example) I questioned their count, it seemed pretty well packed and they came up with like 12,200 or something like that for the attendance. Within the last few months it has come up that the Alerus Center only seats around 12,300 or so, whether thats true or not I don't know. Yesterday's Potato Bowl Game they say drew 10,333. I was at the game and yes, there was sparse seating in the corner/ends, but 3,200 empty seats in the place? Didn't look like it to me. Anyways, I'm asking out of curiousity, I'd like to know.

I've been wondering about this for some time. I e-mailed Charlie Jeske to ask what the true football capacity is, why it was apparently changed this year, and how confident he is the accuracy of the attendance figure for yesterday's game. If he responds, I'll let you know.

[Riverman]

I've been wondering about this for some time. I e-mailed Charlie Jeske to ask what the true football capacity is, why it was apparently changed this year, and how confident he is the accuracy of the attendance figure for yesterday's game. If he responds, I'll let you know.

This years Force of the North media guide states, 12,283 seats. Largest crowd was 13,500 Oct 6, 2001. Opponent NDSU. (IMHO, probably included standing room)