Seating For Football At The Alerus

[Let'sGoHawks!]

I agree...

My question would be how do you see us increasing attendance? Marketing? Opponents? Then if we can achieve the growth in attendance will it hold in a outdoor stadium in North Dakota? My fears have always been the population growth has not been great enough to support. We have what I consider a aging population. We will need to grow the population base (imo) and also Market better in the surrounding communities to come and enjoy a Football experience. It will be more difficult however, if it is outside in below zero weather.

Without a retractable roof stadium, attendance will suffer greatly in cold weather.

[DamStrait]

The Alerus Center is not big enough long-term for D-I football... with only 12,500 permanent seats there simply isn't enough room. Now before anyone jumps down my throat and says "the games aren't selling out now" keep in mind that the building was only 1,000 short of capacity in the opener against TAMUK and if the attendance patterns of neighboring schools that have moved up are any indicator, the demand for 15,000+ seats will be there within 3-4 years.

Commiting to anything long-term with the Alerus would be a mistake IMO, unless the facility is looking at expansion. If you ask me, the University must commit itself to finding a solution to the football seating problem or risk handicapping itself during the D-I move.

I agree - have you let Dr. Kelley know how you feel? Perhaps your media credentials carry some weight.

[DamStrait]

College football is pretty much over by the end of November - that still leaves a lot of games played in nice weather. Also, I think if the design of a new outdoor stadium were to incorporate features to minimize the wind's impact on the spectators, the experience even in colder weather would be significantly improved over the same conditions in the old Memorial Stadium.

[The Sicatoka]

Admittedly "out there", but in a scenario where UND would have on-campus football again, would the Alerus be modified and retasked as a primary home for basketball?

[GeauxSioux]

Admittedly "out there", but in a scenario where UND would have on-campus football again, would the Alerus be modified and retasked as a primary home for basketball?

Leave BB at the Betty. The Alerus would become home to Mens and Womens UND Lacrosse.

[bincitysioux]

10 years sounds about right to me. The Alerus will be sold out for every game startin sometime in the 2010 season. Sell outs mean buzz, TV revenue, increased ticket prices. If ticket demand continues to outpace supply by year 5 of the new agreement with the Alerus, then start talking about an on-campus stadium.

However, I firmly believe that an outdoor stadium in Grand Forks will reduce demand. What the demand is in 5 years remains to be seen.

[mksioux]

The Alerus Center is not big enough long-term for D-I football... with only 12,500 permanent seats there simply isn't enough room. Now before anyone jumps down my throat and says "the games aren't selling out now" keep in mind that the building was only 1,000 short of capacity in the opener against TAMUK and if the attendance patterns of neighboring schools that have moved up are any indicator, the demand for 15,000+ seats will be there within 3-4 years.

Commiting to anything long-term with the Alerus would be a mistake IMO, unless the facility is looking at expansion. If you ask me, the University must commit itself to finding a solution to the football seating problem or risk handicapping itself during the D-I move.

Serious question here. Do you honestly believe the University has enough funds to build a new on-campus football stadium in the next ten years?

I guess I don't see the harm in signing a 10-year lease because I doubt the University has the resources to get up a new stadium that fast, particularly given some of the higher priorities like a practice facility (which as far as I know has not even been started). I'd guess it will take several years of fundraising to get enough funds to even start the stadium project, not to mention the construction time. A 10 year lease starting with the 2009 season would keep UND at the Alerus through 2018. I'd be extremely pleased if UND could get a new on-campus stadium on-line and ready for the 2019 season.

But I admit I don't have the first clue how the fundraising is going. If they are further along than I think, then obviously they would not want to be bound to the Alerus Center for 10 more years. The length of the lease UND signs will probably be a pretty good indicator where they are with the stadium fundraising.

[bincitysioux]

Phase 1 of Alerus Center upgrades approved

The Grand Forks City Council gave the go-ahead to the first phase of Alerus Center upgrades tonight.

That's the part that costs $665,600 and will include big lettering that says "Home of UND Football" and a video display inside that highlights UND football, among other things.

The only thing in the way is the council, at the request of some council members, such as Mike McNamara, requires that the Alerus Center get that 10-year contract signed with UND. We don't want to be shelling out money and then have them build a new arena in 10 years.

Alerus Center executive director Steve Hyman said he expects UND to send back the contract this week, though the public won't get to see it until it goes to the events center commission next month. There's a commission meeting on Wednesday but the contract will need to go through the executive committee first.

I think the big lettering should say "Home of North Dakota Football".

[mksioux]

UND, Alerus Agree on 10-Year Lease

[GeauxSioux]

Alerus, UND release details of 10-year lease agreement

- UND may terminate the agreement if the NCAA requires more seating than is available at the center to maintain a Division I program and the center does not take necessary steps to meet these requirements.

UND now is at Division

I-AA, which, unlike Division I-A, has no attendance requirements. Going up to Division I-A would require average attendance of 15,000 per game.

- If UND should stop using the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname, it will be up to the Alerus Center to remove the logos and names from the facility.

I find it quite interesting that the agreement between the Alerus and UND would include an attendance clause such as this. There is no attendance requirement for FCS (I-AA) and won't be for the next 10 years, if ever.

I-A?

[MplsBison]

Not in the next 10 years.

But it's foolish not cover all your bases in case something unforseen happens.

[The Sicatoka]

If UND should stop using the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname, it will be up to the Alerus Center to remove the logos and names from the facility.

What's it say in the endzones again?

Seems Alerus Center would be on the hook for a new playing surface.

[UND92,96]

What's it say in the endzones again?

Seems Alerus Center would be on the hook for a new playing surface.

Isn't it about time the turf was replaced, anyway? I think the typical life span is supposed to be around seven or eight years.

[bincitysioux]

The details of the agreement can be found in Tran's City Beat blog.

[Hammersmith]

You never know what can happen in ten years. The attendance clause was probably put in because there's no word yet on what changes will occur in the DI requirements during the current moratorium. Those changes probably won't become known until late 2011/early 2012. While it's unlikely those changes will have any effect on the Alerus/UND agreement, it's better to be safe than sorry.

[bincitysioux]

UND football's home sweet home

Under the agreement, UND will pay $24,000 a game to rent the Alerus. They will also share revenue from parking concessions and merchandising. UND Athletic Director Brian Faison said the agreement also allows the Alerus to replace the playing surface in two years.

[MplsBison]

Eventually all 4 of the upper midwest FCS domes (Alerus, Fardodome, Dakotadome and UNI-Dome) will have fieldturf.

NAU is an example of how it can be installed without taking away any functionality from the facility.

[dakotadan]

UND football's home sweet home

What other sports? Basketball perhaps if attendance issues warrant it. I would really be intrigued by the idea of configuring the Alerus for some early season softball games if it is geometrically possible. I know they do it at Northern Iowa's dome. The've done it at the Fargodome in the past. They do it on St. Cloud's football field under the bubble. It could really help the softball program's advancement being able to play some indoor home games in February and March.

It is interesting you bring up softball. Last weekend while I was following the UNI-Dome tournament, I was thinking about how a softball set up could work in the Alerus. If you use the south end bleachers and the grandstand extenders that the Al already has, you could create a good softball field in the southeast corner of the Al.

The actual dimensions of the field in the pic aren't necessarily correct. I just threw that together to show what I was talking about.

I would think that the athletic department and the Alerus could contact the Astroturf company and work out a pretty reasonable deal on turf for a softball field. Or even purchase used turf and cut to the dimensions of a softball field.

UND could host a couple early season round-robin weekends with northern DI schools. The Alerus could work with the DAC to maybe host a NAIA/DII weekend or two.

And it would be a pretty unique recruiting tool when trying to get girls from southern states to come play here.

[dakotadan]

And how expensive would it be to make the Al capable of hosting indoor track and field?

[GeauxSioux]

It is interesting you bring up softball. Last weekend while I was following the UNI-Dome tournament, I was thinking about how a softball set up could work in the Alerus. If you use the south end bleachers and the grandstand extenders that the Al already has, you could create a good softball field in the southeast corner of the Al.

The actual dimensions of the field in the pic aren't necessarily correct. I just threw that together to show what I was talking about.

I would think that the athletic department and the Alerus could contact the Astroturf company and work out a pretty reasonable deal on turf for a softball field. Or even purchase used turf and cut to the dimensions of a softball field.

UND could host a couple early season round-robin weekends with northern DI schools. The Alerus could work with the DAC to maybe host a NAIA/DII weekend or two.

And it would be a pretty unique recruiting tool when trying to get girls from southern states to come play here.

Isn't the roof too low??

[Shawn-O]

UND football's home sweet home

Would love to see Field Turf put into the Alerus.

What other sports? Basketball perhaps if attendance issues warrant it. I would really be intrigued by the idea of configuring the Alerus for some early season softball games if it is geometrically possible. I know they do it at Northern Iowa's dome. The've done it at the Fargodome in the past. They do it on St. Cloud's football field under the bubble. It could really help the softball program's advancement being able to play some indoor home games in February and March.

Lacrosse, Sicatoka?.................

The Field Turf install will coincide with a name change. Also, I think this is great news....it puts a definitive timeline around any future goals and fundraising for something potentially on campus again.

[star2city]

It is interesting you bring up softball. Last weekend while I was following the UNI-Dome tournament, I was thinking about how a softball set up could work in the Alerus. If you use the south end bleachers and the grandstand extenders that the Al already has, you could create a good softball field in the southeast corner of the Al.

The actual dimensions of the field in the pic aren't necessarily correct. I just threw that together to show what I was talking about.

I would think that the athletic department and the Alerus could contact the Astroturf company and work out a pretty reasonable deal on turf for a softball field. Or even purchase used turf and cut to the dimensions of a softball field.

UND could host a couple early season round-robin weekends with northern DI schools. The Alerus could work with the DAC to maybe host a NAIA/DII weekend or two.

And it would be a pretty unique recruiting tool when trying to get girls from southern states to come play here.

Looks as if UND / Alerus are considering it:

We

[GeauxSioux]

Going back to the origins of this thread. The Alerus seats approximately 12,300 people, which is fine for FCS football. I don't think that figure includes the suites, but we'll use the 12,300 number for now. To qualify for FBS football a school must...

meet the criteria with a minimum average of 15,000 in actual attendance at home football games over a two-year period or an average of 15,000 in paid attendance at all home games.

In the event that UND ever decided to to FBS, the Alerus is obviously not big enough in and of itself, but what constitutes attendance for a game?

I'm sure at many FBS games people sit in luxury boxes watching the game on the TV monitor in the suite and may never even see the field, but they are counted as attendance. What if UND started selling out the Alerus for every home game and people were being turned away. What if the Ralph were used for overflow, selling seats at a reduced price, so people could watch the games on the big screen, sit in suites, sit in the club lounges, could they be counted as attendance? Think of it as an extended tailgating party. Bring in some half time entertainment.

I know UND hasn't approached this point yet, but attendance was at around 85% of capacity last year (the first year of FCS) and the Sioux are locked into a 10 year Alerus lease.

Does the NCAA have a definition of what constitutes actual attendance? Paid attendance?

Combination of the attendance from the Al and the Ralph, hello Mountain West.

Okay, now I will put on my tin foil hat.

[Hammersmith]

Going back to the origins of this thread. The Alerus seats approximately 12,300 people, which is fine for FCS football. I don't think that figure includes the suites, but we'll use the 12,300 number for now. To qualify for FBS football a school must...In the event that UND ever decided to to FBS, the Alerus is obviously not big enough in and of itself, but what constitutes attendance for a game?

I'm sure at many FBS games people sit in luxury boxes watching the game on the TV monitor in the suite and may never even see the field, but they are counted as attendance. What if UND started selling out the Alerus for every home game and people were being turned away. What if the Ralph were used for overflow, selling seats at a reduced price, so people could watch the games on the big screen, sit in suites, sit in the club lounges, could they be counted as attendance? Think of it as an extended tailgating party. Bring in some half time entertainment.

I know UND hasn't approached this point yet, but attendance was at around 85% of capacity last year (the first year of FCS) and the Sioux are locked into a 10 year Alerus lease.

Does the NCAA have a definition of what constitutes actual attendance? Paid attendance?

Combination of the attendance from the Al and the Ralph, hello Mountain West.

Okay, now I will put on my tin foil hat.

Intresting idea, but I have my doubts it would work(for both practical and NCAA reasons). Here's the relevant portion of the DI manual:

20.9.7.3 Football-Attendance Requirements. [FBS] Once every two years on a rolling basis, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games. (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/04, 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05)

20.9.7.3.1 Counting Attendance.

20.9.7.3.1.1 Actual Attendance. For purposes of computing actual attendance figures, an individual may be counted if any one of the following conditions applies: (Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04, 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05)

(a) Attendees are issued tickets that are collected on admission to the game and retained; (Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04)

(b) Attendees enter through and are counted by a turnstile that is monitored by a representative of the department of athletics who verifies in writing the accuracy of the count on a per-game basis; or (Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04)

© Attendees enter through a gate at which a representative of the department of athletics counts them individually with a manual counter, and the representative provides a written statement verifying the accuracy of the count on a per-game basis. (Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04)

20.9.7.3.1.2 Paid Attendance. For purposes of computing paid attendance figures, tickets must be sold for at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price as established prior to the season, regardless of whether they are used for admission. Tickets sold at less than one-third of the highest regular established price may be counted as paid attendance only if they are used for admission. Student attendance may be counted as paid attendance if the student pays at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price or, if the student actually attends the game and any one of the following conditions applies: (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05)

(a) The student paid an athletics fee;

(b) The student paid an institutional fee of which a certain portion was allocated to the department of intercollegiate athletics; or

© The student paid no athletics fee, but the institution allocated to the department of intercollegiate athletics a certain portion of tuition income or general operating funds as the equivalent of a student athletics fee.

20.9.7.3.1.2.1 Student Attendance. Student attendance must be verified through one of the following methods: (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05)

(a) Such students are issued tickets that are collected on admission to the game and retained;

(b) Such students enter through and are counted by a turnstile (which is not used by others in attendance) that is monitored by a representative of the department of athletics who verifies in writing the accuracy of the count on a per-game basis; or

© Such students enter through a gate (that is not used by others in attendance) at which a representative of the department of athletics counts them individually with a manual counter, and the representative provides a written statement verifying the accuracy of the count on a per-game basis.

20.9.7.3.1.2.1.1 Noncounted Students. Student-athletes and cheerleaders scheduled by the institution to be at the game and students performing services at the stadium (e.g., concessionaires, ticket takers, parking-lot attendants, ushers, groundskeepers) shall not be counted toward meeting the attendance requirements. (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05)

20.9.7.3.1.2.2 Exchange of Tickets with Opponent. For an institution to meet the football bowl subdivision attendance requirements, tickets for a football contest obtained by an institution through an exchange agreement or a purchase agreement with another institution may be used only if sold for at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price and are used to attend the game. (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.9.7.3.2 Certified Audit. In meeting the football-attendance requirements of the Football Bowl Subdivision, an institution must undertake an annual certified audit verifying its football attendance. The audited football-attendance figures must be received in the NCAA national office not later than the February 15 following the completion of the football season, and NCAA national office staff shall verify compliance with all the Football Bowl Subdivision attendance requirements. The certified audit and materials (including the ticket manifest) must be available for inspection for a four-year period. (Revised: 10/17/05, 12/15/06)

[GeauxSioux]

Thanks for the definitions for attendance. I don't see anything that would preclude the use of dual venues for "attendance" to the game in the "paid attendance" portion. Especially with the following highlighted phrase

For purposes of computing paid attendance figures, tickets must be sold for at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price as established prior to the season, regardless of whether they are used for admission.

While I admit it is highly unlikely that a school would implement such a plan, I tossed it out there for a "food for thought".