Facilities Master Plan

[darell1976]

I believe this is the key factor for attendance, inside a transition or out of one.

Winning isn't everything....its the only thing. We won't get people in the stands by winning 3 games all year. We haven't had back to back losing seasons since 85-86. So we will bounce back, and attendance will most likely suffer again this year but 2012 is THE year!!

[RD17]

Those who had increased attendance throughout the transition were programs that were in the ditch (playoff wise) prior to their respective moves. The transition along with an improved product on the field gave their respective fanbases something to be excited about for the first time in a number of years, thus increased attendance.

UND put a stop to a consistent DII playoff program. They then asked their fans to cool their jets while this transition thing worked itself out. Its a very different scenario and unfortunately it impacted attendance.

You make a very good point about the differences between UND and the other three Dakota schools when they entered their respective transitions. Plus UND already has a top-notch D-I program bringing in Minnesota, Wisconsin etc. on a regular basis so it is much easier for Sioux fans to just put football on the back burner when things don't go well.

I would also argue that the USF loss burst the bubble so to speak with the average fan. From the start of the 2008 season up to and including the USF game, UND averaged about 9950 fans per game including two games of over 12,000 fans. Since that loss, UND is averaging about 7800 fans per game with just one game exceeding 10,000. I said at the time that it was a foolish decision to schedule USF and it has proven to be a real mistake.

I think the fans are still out there, but are in wait and see mode when it comes to football at this point. They want this transition to be over and to see a successful team on the field against real opponents (i.e. Big Sky) and with something to play for. If things can get rolling again next year, it won't be long before another attendance record is set and we are talking about the Alerus being too small.

Also, to get this thread a bit back on topic, someone told me last week that the new IPF will include offices, meeting rooms, weight room etc. for the football program. If so, this will be as big or bigger for the program than the indoor field itself. Also have heard that the ball is already rolling to have a new stadium in place at the time the Alerus lease runs out (7 years?). Just curious if anyone else out there knows if what I have been told is true.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

You make a very good point about the differences between UND and the other three Dakota schools when they entered their respective transitions. Plus UND already has a top-notch D-I program bringing in Minnesota, Wisconsin etc. on a regular basis so it is much easier for Sioux fans to just put football on the back burner when things don't go well.

I would also argue that the USF loss burst the bubble so to speak with the average fan. From the start of the 2008 season up to and including the USF game, UND averaged about 9950 fans per game including two games of over 12,000 fans. Since that loss, UND is averaging about 7800 fans per game with just one game exceeding 10,000. I said at the time that it was a foolish decision to schedule USF and it has proven to be a real mistake.

I think the fans are still out there, but are in wait and see mode when it comes to football at this point. They want this transition to be over and to see a successful team on the field against real opponents (i.e. Big Sky) and with something to play for. If things can get rolling again next year, it won't be long before another attendance record is set and we are talking about the Alerus being too small.

Also, to get this thread a bit back on topic, someone told me last week that the new IPF will include offices, meeting rooms, weight room etc. for the football program. If so, this will be as big or bigger for the program than the indoor field itself. Also have heard that the ball is already rolling to have a new stadium in place at the time the Alerus lease runs out (7 years?). Just curious if anyone else out there knows if what I have been told is true.

You have described the average Sioux football fan perfectly! The fans will come back, I am sure of it. The practice facility sounds incredible, and if a new stadium is in the works, WOW! I think it has to have a retractable roof.

[The Sicatoka]

Also, to get this thread a bit back on topic, someone told me last week that the new IPF will include offices, meeting rooms, weight room etc. for the football program. If so, this will be as big or bigger for the program than the indoor field itself.

This is the last image I'd seen of a potential indoor training facility. It was saved ... somewhere ...

I do not know who owns this image nor do I, or SiouxSports.com, claim any ownership rights to the image.

EDIT: And as soon as I link to it, it disappears.

[darell1976]

You have described the average Sioux football fan perfectly! The fans will come back, I am sure of it. The practice facility sounds incredible, and if a new stadium is in the works, WOW! I think it has to have a retractable roof.

If you build it...they will come. If we build a championship team...fans will come.

[dakotadan]

This is the last image I'd seen of a potential indoor training facility. It was saved ... somewhere ...

I do not know who owns this image nor do I, or SiouxSports.com, claim any ownership rights to the image.

EDIT: And as soon as I link to it, it disappears.

It redirects to HERE.

Down the road... pull out the track, shift the field closer to the Memorial Grandstand, build an identical Memorial Grandstand on the east side between the moved field and the IDP with a row or two of suites on the top. When needed, enclose the south endzone with steel bleachers to create a 20-25,000 horseshoe.

Really crazy idea. When the new parking ramp is built, throw some suites/lounges/viewing decks on the top level that look into the new Memorial Horseshoe.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

This is the last image I'd seen of a potential indoor training facility. It was saved ... somewhere ...

I do not know who owns this image nor do I, or SiouxSports.com, claim any ownership rights to the image.

EDIT: And as soon as I link to it, it disappears.

UND Master Plan

Click on "the work", then hockey/sports", and find UND Master Plan for proposed designs of stadium and practice facility.

[IrishSiouxFan]

UND Master Plan

Click on "the work", then hockey/sports", and find UND Master Plan for proposed designs of stadium and practice facility.

Looks like they might be going with the "horse shoe" after all! That would be so sweet if they did!

[MplsBison]

I wasn't referring to the quality of the opponent. The quality of Cal Poly in 2004 is secondary to the quality of ndsu in 2004. It's the quality of the home team which matters, which is what my bolded text was emphasizing.

Again you're wrong and for the same reason. The actual quality of the football being played is almost inconsequential to the number of tickets that are sold to games!

Ask yourself this question: would you be less likely to buy tickets to a UND football game vs. Montana if you knew that every UND and Montana senior player was suspended for that game (make up your own reason why that happened)? If you say yes, then I don't think you're being honest with me or yourself. So there you have it, the quality of play has undoubtedly decreased, yet the excitement of the Montana game has not. The game still sells out.

The reason to buy that ticket is the excitement of that match up between UND and Montana, two great flagship schools from two great states and with two great football programs. It's an exciting event to be at. That's the draw. Somehow, UND's program has to generate that kind of excitement week after week to sell out every home game.

You can't sell that excitement to people by proclaiming that UND is now DI and therefore they have better talent on the field.

[UNDvince97-01]

You can't sell that excitement to people by proclaiming that UND is now DI and therefore they have better talent on the field.

Why not? That's what the school to the south said and did just a few years ago I thought?

[GeauxSioux]

It redirects to HERE.

Down the road... pull out the track, shift the field closer to the Memorial Grandstand, build an identical Memorial Grandstand on the east side between the moved field and the IDP with a row or two of suites on the top. When needed, enclose the south endzone with steel bleachers to create a 20-25,000 horseshoe.

Really crazy idea. When the new parking ramp is built, throw some suites/lounges/viewing decks on the top level that look into the new Memorial Horseshoe.

That image is from iconarchitects.com, which came after the jlgarchitects master plan. There was a blog post on grandforkslife.com where the architect said that the horseshoe wasn't going to be built. They were planning for the stadium with the retractable roof, but it was still a long ways out.

[UNDColorado]

Again you're wrong and for the same reason. The actual quality of the football being played is almost inconsequential to the number of tickets that are sold to games!

Ask yourself this question: would you be less likely to buy tickets to a UND football game vs. Montana if you knew that every UND and Montana senior player was suspended for that game (make up your own reason why that happened)? If you say yes, then I don't think you're being honest with me or yourself. So there you have it, the quality of play has undoubtedly decreased, yet the excitement of the Montana game has not. The game still sells out.

The reason to buy that ticket is the excitement of that match up between UND and Montana, two great flagship schools from two great states and with two great football programs. It's an exciting event to be at. That's the draw. Somehow, UND's program has to generate that kind of excitement week after week to sell out every home game.

You can't sell that excitement to people by proclaiming that UND is now DI and therefore they have better talent on the field.

I don't know man, a lot of people in the GF area are stubborn fair weather fans that are used to playoffs every year so what you are saying isn't entirely true; though you do have a good point point. I think that once the team is consistently putting a better product on the field against real teams (which I believe is happening) more and more people will slowly and steadily come to the games.

[IrishSiouxFan]

That image is from iconarchitects.com, which came after the jlgarchitects master plan. There was a blog post on grandforkslife.com where the architect said that the horseshoe wasn't going to be built. They were planning for the stadium with the retractable roof, but it was still a long ways out.

The statement about the "horse shoe" no longer being in the plans was made several years ago, they could have easily changed their minds. I didn't notice the dome in the JLG master plan for UND only the IPF and the shoe.

[Twinsfan]

The budget for the NDUS for 2011-2013 has $29,100,000 (other funds) for the BSA at NDSU and $5,000,000 (other funds) for the IPF at NDSU but nothing listed under UND for any type of athletic department building.

NDUS budget

[johnsowe]

Better have a roof or nobody will go in november

[star2city]

You make a very good point about the differences between UND and the other three Dakota schools when they entered their respective transitions. Plus UND already has a top-notch D-I program bringing in Minnesota, Wisconsin etc. on a regular basis so it is much easier for Sioux fans to just put football on the back burner when things don't go well.

I would also argue that the USF loss burst the bubble so to speak with the average fan. From the start of the 2008 season up to and including the USF game, UND averaged about 9950 fans per game including two games of over 12,000 fans. Since that loss, UND is averaging about 7800 fans per game with just one game exceeding 10,000. I said at the time that it was a foolish decision to schedule USF and it has proven to be a real mistake.

I think the fans are still out there, but are in wait and see mode when it comes to football at this point. They want this transition to be over and to see a successful team on the field against real opponents (i.e. Big Sky) and with something to play for. If things can get rolling again next year, it won't be long before another attendance record is set and we are talking about the Alerus being too small.

Also, to get this thread a bit back on topic, someone told me last week that the new IPF will include offices, meeting rooms, weight room etc. for the football program. If so, this will be as big or bigger for the program than the indoor field itself. Also have heard that the ball is already rolling to have a new stadium in place at the time the Alerus lease runs out (7 years?). Just curious if anyone else out there knows if what I have been told is true.

RD17: Have missed your wisdom! Hope now that football season is back, you will be posting more.

The lack of a Minnesota game has also hurt the football program, as the Twin Cities alums haven't had the chance to play the Gophs. Those games have helped the other Dakota schools, especially NDSU, both with fan interest and with Minnesota recruiting. Totally agree that the USF game burst any residual excitement from the DII years.

Regarding a new football stadium, those rumors seem to persist. Years before the REA was gifted, there were similar rumors. The supposed benefactor will be at a retirement age by 2020, much as Ralph was by the year 2000. With gold continuing to make historic highs, hopefully it all won't come crashing down before a gift is made.

[The Sicatoka]

Better have a roof or nobody will go in november

Never a truer post.

[The Sicatoka]

The budget for the NDUS for 2011-2013 has $29,100,000 (other funds) for the BSA at NDSU and $5,000,000 (other funds) for the IPF at NDSU but nothing listed under UND for any type of athletic department building.

NDUS budget

My head is telling me a UND ITF was approved in a past budget, but I'm too lazy to go and look for it.

[star2city]

The budget for the NDUS for 2011-2013 has $29,100,000 (other funds) for the BSA at NDSU and $5,000,000 (other funds) for the IPF at NDSU but nothing listed under UND for any type of athletic department building.

NDUS budget

In Dec of 09, the SBoHE approved an IPF for UND. Since the money is not appropriated, the approval still stands as long as it doesn't go over budget.

NDSU is still $10 mill short on BSA fundraising, so we may be looking at a new domed retractable roofed stadium before the BSA ever gets remodeled.

[GeauxSioux]

The statement about the "horse shoe" no longer being in the plans was made several years ago, they could have easily changed their minds. I didn't notice the dome in the JLG master plan for UND only the IPF and the shoe.

You could be right, but the last "facilities future" included the retractable roof stadium.

The links that the Herald had are no longer valid, so who knows what they are planning now.

[johnson]

In Dec of 09, the SBoHE approved an IPF for UND. Since the money is not appropriated, the approval still stands as long as it doesn't go over budget.

NDSU is still $10 mill short on BSA fundraising, so we may be looking at a new domed retractable roofed stadium before the BSA ever gets remodeled.

Rumors around are that more gift announcements will be made before the end of the school year. I also over heard Gene Taylor saying that the BSA remodel could possibly break ground next summer.

[star2city]

Rumors around are that more gift announcements will be made before the end of the school year. I also over heard Gene Taylor saying that the BSA remodel could possibly break ground next summer.

Good for NDSU - would that be for the basketball practice lean-to, the new weight area, or the actual BSA BB court?

[IrishSiouxFan]

You could be right, but the last "facilities future" included the retractable roof stadium.

The links that the Herald had are no longer valid, so who knows what they are planning now.

Don't get me wrong, I love both designs. The dome with the retractable roof would be absolutely amazing if we can score it. My main concern is that a dome would cost at least twice what an outdoor stadium would and could possible hinder future expansions as UND grows. The only problems I have with the Alerus is that it's too far from campus and was not built with the possibility of growth. These are huge oversights by the good people of Grand Forks and gave a $100 million dollar facility a short life expectancy. We have to learn from the Alerus's mistakes and make sure we have build a stadium that can grow with the university.

[The Sicatoka]

As a wise man once told me:

"Talk's cheap; takes money to buy whiskey" ... or arenas ... anywhere.

[johnson]

Good for NDSU - would that be for the basketball practice lean-to, the new weight area, or the actual BSA BB court?

All the money for the BSA renovation has to be in place before they can start. The T&F facility was a separate project. I'm not sure which area will be started first.