Facilities Master Plan

[Cratter]

Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that one reason Ralph Engelstad was able to build such a fabulous hockey arena in Grand Forks was because overall costs were lower here. I've heard the same thing about other buildings built on campus, ranging from laboratories to office space.

I have accepted the fact that a lot of MplsBison posts are generally not correct. "More expensive Labor"? I think not.

North Dakota is known for its "cheap labor." As our representatives usually use it as a selling point.

[MplsBison]

You guys are bat **** nuts if you think ND labor is cheaper than Florida labor!

The mere fact that ND laborers are US citizens guarantees that they're more expensive.

[PCM]

You guys are bat **** nuts if you think ND labor is cheaper than Florida labor!

The mere fact that ND laborers are US citizens guarantees that they're more expensive.

How many buildings have you built in Grand Forks?

[GeauxSioux]

How many buildings have you built in Grand Forks?

I am a Florida contractor who has worked in both locations. I recently provided a proposal in another part of Florida for a GF contractor and was in-line with my ND counterpart price-wise. C.O.L. is not that different, either. ND labor is better educated is the biggest difference that I've seen.

Edited December 20, 2007 by GeauxSioux

[The Sicatoka]

I don't know if anyone has seen these or if they were in the print edition of the Herald. But there are pictures online showing what the proposed retractable roof stadim would look like and also a few renderings of the indoor practice facility.

link

So who put that onto their Christmas list?

[SiouxMD]

So who put that onto their Christmas list?

Who didn't put that onto their Christmas list?

[Cratter]

Who didn't put that onto their Christmas list?

NDSU fans

[dakotadan]

Personally, I like the outdoor, horseshoe stadium better. What's the point of building an indoor practice facility for millions if we are going to have a domed stadium literally steps away? And the outdoor horseshoe leaves the train whisles, northern homefield adavantage and room for growth in the future.

University of Montana Wash-Griz Stadium

The thing that is great about Montana's stadium is how close it is to the field!

[MplsBison]

Missouri State has a track around their stadium.

[GeauxSioux]

The topic of UND's Master Plan is being discussed on Grand Forks Guy's website. Of course the first post would be an NDSU poster bashing it.

[GeauxSioux]

The stadium is once again a topic over at Grand Forks Life. Grand Forks Guy talked to someone over at JLG who told him the horseshoe plan was part of an earlier concept drawing and was not being considered. The indoor stadium is more likely.

I was informed that the plan shown above is "an earlier concept that is no longer a part of the plan." So it sounds more like we're talking about a new indoor football stadium in UND's future.

As usual a Bison fan is the first person to post, with a negative comment.

[MplsBison]

I just don't see why you'd want to go back to outdoor football in your climate.

And if you are going to be indoors, then what is the major problem with the Alerus other than capacity and not being on campus?

Seems like the money would be better used for an on campus 6-8k basketball arena.

[bincitysioux]

And if you are going to be indoors, then what is the major problem with the Alerus other than capacity and not being on campus?

Nothing, but the capacity of it for football will be a problem very early on in the transition. If it can be expanded somehow even to just the ~15,000-ish range, I'm all for staying. But if a shade over 12,000 is really the max, that could be a problem down the road.

Seems like the money would be better used for an on campus 6-8k basketball arena.

Not a priority. It'll be a while before UND needs a facility of that size for basketball. And even when we do, we can always utilize this.

[PartTime]

Nothing, but the capacity of it for football will be a problem very early on in the transition. If it can be expanded somehow even to just the ~15,000-ish range, I'm all for staying. But if a shade over 12,000 is really the max, that could be a problem down the road.

Not a priority. It'll be a while before UND needs a facility of that size for basketball. And even when we do, we can always utilize this.

It's funny a possible Alerus Center expansion hasn't been discussed or mentioned in the Herald or even that it's being looked into. Last and only thing I've heard about any kind of possible expansion was from city council president Hal Gershman and that was a while ago (1-2 years ago..........memory thing).

[Hammersmith]

Quick question: Is the Canad Inn on the south side of the Alerus or the north side? I can't tell from the pictures I've found, and I didn't pay close enough attention the last time I drove past it(several months ago).

[bincitysioux]

Quick question: Is the Canad Inn on the south side of the Alerus or the north side? I can't tell from the pictures I've found, and I didn't pay close enough attention the last time I drove past it(several months ago).

North side.

[Cratter]

I just don't see why you'd want to go back to outdoor football in your climate.

I gotta agree. It would be disasterous to move football outdoors again in Grand Forks regardless of what "traditionalists" think.

There is no doubt that being outdoors would cost UND attendance numbers meaning less revenue for UND.

The new stadium needs to be in the 23,000-28,000 seat range.

Lonnie Laffen of JLG Architects wrote this on the blog

The master plan saves and integrates the existing Memorial Stadium seating section into the new stadium

I like it. Integrating the tradition with the future.

[Hammersmith]

North side.

Thanks. I was hoping that was the case, but I didn't want to go off on a long post only to find everything in it was wrong because I got the hotel on the wrong side.

If I were you guys, I'd put an on-campus stadium on the way, way, way back burner and think about an Alerus expansion instead. You should be able to increase seating in the Al to about 16k for a small fraction of the cost of a new facility and only have the Al out of commission for about a month. First, put on about a 60-80 yard extention to the south endzone. This could be done without the removal of the south wall, so no interuption of activities would occur. The extention would include either endzone seating like the Fargodome or a horseshoe configuration with seating in the corners. Once the extention was complete(and the FB season was over), the south wall could be removed and all the construction equipment moved to the north endzone. This would be the one month shutdown. Once everything has been moved, a couple of thick plastic curtains could be hung from the rafters to allow events to proceed while the north endzone was being worked on. The north end of the Alerus would then be worked into a mirror of the south end, either giving full-bowl or 4-sided seating to the Alerus. Money could even be saved by relocating the northernmost stands to the south end, complete with seats intact. By my rough calculations, a simple four sided configuration like the Fargodome would seat a little beyond 16k. Add seating in the corners and you might hit 18k. That would do you for 10-15 years at least, for 10-20% of the cost of a retractable roof or enclosed stadium.

[bincitysioux]

Thanks. I was hoping that was the case, but I didn't want to go off on a long post only to find everything in it was wrong because I got the hotel on the wrong side.

If I were you guys, I'd put an on-campus stadium on the way, way, way back burner and think about an Alerus expansion instead. You should be able to increase seating in the Al to about 16k for a small fraction of the cost of a new facility and only have the Al out of commission for about a month. First, put on about a 60-80 yard extention to the south endzone. This could be done without the removal of the south wall, so no interuption of activities would occur. The extention would include either endzone seating like the Fargodome or a horseshoe configuration with seating in the corners. Once the extention was complete(and the FB season was over), the south wall could be removed and all the construction equipment moved to the north endzone. This would be the one month shutdown. Once everything has been moved, a couple of thick plastic curtains could be hung from the rafters to allow events to proceed while the north endzone was being worked on. The north end of the Alerus would then be worked into a mirror of the south end, either giving full-bowl or 4-sided seating to the Alerus. Money could even be saved by relocating the northernmost stands to the south end, complete with seats intact. By my rough calculations, a simple four sided configuration like the Fargodome would seat a little beyond 16k. Add seating in the corners and you might hit 18k. That would do you for 10-15 years at least, for 10-20% of the cost of a retractable roof or enclosed stadium.

I like it. To me, something like this is a much better solution than building something totally new, if we're talking in just 10-15 years. I think the Alerus Center is a very nice facility and think it would be foolish to walk away from it if it is at all feasible to expand it in the near future. If in 30 or 40 years it becomes out-dated and obsolete, fine, that is when the University should start talking about building a new place.

[GeauxSioux]

Thanks. I was hoping that was the case, but I didn't want to go off on a long post only to find everything in it was wrong because I got the hotel on the wrong side.

If I were you guys, I'd put an on-campus stadium on the way, way, way back burner and think about an Alerus expansion instead. You should be able to increase seating in the Al to about 16k for a small fraction of the cost of a new facility and only have the Al out of commission for about a month. First, put on about a 60-80 yard extention to the south endzone. This could be done without the removal of the south wall, so no interuption of activities would occur. The extention would include either endzone seating like the Fargodome or a horseshoe configuration with seating in the corners. Once the extention was complete(and the FB season was over), the south wall could be removed and all the construction equipment moved to the north endzone. This would be the one month shutdown. Once everything has been moved, a couple of thick plastic curtains could be hung from the rafters to allow events to proceed while the north endzone was being worked on. The north end of the Alerus would then be worked into a mirror of the south end, either giving full-bowl or 4-sided seating to the Alerus. Money could even be saved by relocating the northernmost stands to the south end, complete with seats intact. By my rough calculations, a simple four sided configuration like the Fargodome would seat a little beyond 16k. Add seating in the corners and you might hit 18k. That would do you for 10-15 years at least, for 10-20% of the cost of a retractable roof or enclosed stadium.

If the new stadium with the retractable roof is still part of the plan and your thought is to do it in 10-15 years, isn't the cost of construction for the new stadium going to go up during that time frame, probably 10-20%? What would you do with an 18,000 seat Alerus 10-15 years from now, when you move into the new stadium? I would think the current configuration could be utilized by the community much more than an 18,000 seat facility.

From what I've read/heard, UND will be staying at the Alerus for the near term 7+ years. If a new stadium is being "planned", I would have to think that there is someone out there thinking that the possibility must be there for it to be built.

[The Sicatoka]

Expansion north really isn't an option as I believe the Aurora Ballroom and the associated kitchen facilities limit options that direction.

Going horseshoe on the south end isn't an option really without accepting some severly obstructed view seats. (You can't move the pylons that hold the roof up.) What you'd end up with at best is maybe 3500 seats in a pure "straight-on" view of the field.

One more note: I asked an Alerus commission member about expansion. He told me to his knowledge it wasn't designed with this type of expansion in mind.

No, if they have a donor, going back on-campus with a retractable roof and a full athletic complex is a better option for UND.

If the City of Grand Forks has concerns about that, maybe UND could offer to make Alerus Center home to UND M/W BB. Curtaining options in there would allow for a "cozy court" feel even in that larger space.

[Hammersmith]

Forget what I posted. I'm an idiot. I knew that the Alerus had a curved roof, but for some reason I thought it was curved in the other direction(sideline to sideline, not endzone to endzone). I was so focused on getting the north/south hotel thing right, that I didn't take a close look at the interior until sic's post. Whoops.

[GeauxSioux]

No problem Hammer. I'm kind of partial to this one anyway.

[MplsBison]

Who wouldn't be partial to a 300 million dollar stadium rendering?

[The Sicatoka]

Who wouldn't be partial to a 300 million dollar stadium rendering?

When it's proposed for UND, Bison fans.