Reason to go DI

[The Sicatoka]

As with UND's hockey win over Michigan in 1948, only time will tell.

Based on this, are we sure NDSU didn't learn how to crank up their football program in the 1960s after watching UND hockey program in the 1950s?

As far a "learning from observing", who has the first NCAA titles in the region? Wouldn't they be the one the others watched and learned from?

UND has that 1959 NCAA hockey title. Who before that in this region?

[GCWaters]

You do realize that for every home hockey game they play the very same team again the following night, don't you? I'm sure a lot of people go to either the Friday game or the Saturday game, but not both. Of those 11,701 fans... I doubt that more than half were at both games. I think it's pretty safe to assume that more than 17,142 fans were at one of the two games.

How many people do you see wearing jerseys, hats, sweatshirts or whatever for "Badger hoops"? A lot less than "Badger hockey", that's for sure. Same goes for the Gophers. I see a lot of "Gopher hockey" stuff being worn, very little "Gopher hoops".

We live in a place where it gets cold enough to make ice outside. This is hockey country, and most of us don't have any interest in bouncey-ball. Sorry if that's so hard for you to accept, but it's the truth. Don't you have an anti-hockey forum where you can spew your garbage?

Yada, yada, yada...same old crap...do the math, davey-boy....

[UND-1]

Kohl Center only seats 14,00 for hockey.

Go back to Bisonville, please.

[GCWaters]

Kohl Center only seats 14,00 for hockey.

Go back to Bisonville, please.

Read the original post--I noted that. The point is that basketball, with more seats, sold out every game two years in a row. Hockey is a couple thousand short, per game, on average...now, where's thay yawn smilie?!?

[Northcountry]

Based on this, are we sure NDSU didn't learn how to crank up their football program in the 1960s after watching UND hockey program in the 1950s?

As far a "learning from observing", who has the first NCAA titles in the region? Wouldn't they be the one the others watched and learned from?

UND has that 1959 NCAA hockey title. Who before that in this region?

According to some recently uncovered artifacts from the Fordville area, in circa 1492 a band of Sioux defeated a band of Chippewa in a contest of various "feats of strength". The Sioux band was then entitled to declare itself "the strongest nation in the region" and laid claim to the first national title. In this context then I guess the Sioux did learn from the Sioux.

[The Sicatoka]

Various notes (read as appropriate to context and conversation):

FIRST:

Various "feats of strength"? Are we sure it wasn't "festivus"?

NEXT:

When is 11,701 people more like 23,402 people?

Wisconsin sells a "split" season ticket in hockey. You get either the first game or the second game of a weekend series meaning there is nearly a completely different group of people night to night. Proof?

Season tickets for Wisconsin Hockey are sold in two packages. The Face-Off package is always the first game of each home series, usually but not always on a Friday. The Slap-Shot package is always the second game of each home series, usually but not always on a Saturday. Patrons interested in having season tickets to all Wisconsin home games should order both the Face-Off and Slap-Shot package.

Source: http://www.uwbadgers.com/tickets/mhky/hky_reserved.aspx

[UND92,96]

Various notes (read as appropriate to context and conversation):

FIRST:

Various "feats of strength"? Are we sure it wasn't "festivus"?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking of festivus when the phrase "feats of strength" was mentioned.

[jimdahl]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking of festivus when the phrase "feats of strength" was mentioned.

Thankfully, we having Bison fans around to lead the airing of grievances.

[Cratter]

I don't know exactly where NDSU's win over Wisconsin would rank in the annals of NCAA basketball but it certainly deserves to be on someone's Top 10 list of upsets.

It was only the fourth greatest upset so far this season in DI mens basketball.

[SiouxMD]

NEXT:

When is 11,701 people more like 23,402 people?

NCAA Hockey Attendance - 2003/04

NCAA Men's Basketball Attendance - 2003/04

Wisconsin home game attendance

average

in 2004...was 11,701 (hockey) and 17,142 (basketball).

These numbers do not imply that the same 11,701 or 17,142 persons attend each game. For a two game series...you could have anywhere to 11,701 to 23,402 (17,142 to 34,284) different individuals in attendance.

I do not follow your logic on this one...

[FargoBison]

You do realize that for every home hockey game they play the very same team again the following night, don't you? I'm sure a lot of people go to either the Friday game or the Saturday game, but not both. Of those 11,701 fans... I doubt that more than half were at both games. I think it's pretty safe to assume that more than 17,142 fans were at one of the two games.

How many people do you see wearing jerseys, hats, sweatshirts or whatever for "Badger hoops"? A lot less than "Badger hockey", that's for sure. Same goes for the Gophers. I see a lot of "Gopher hockey" stuff being worn, very little "Gopher hoops".

We live in a place where it gets cold enough to make ice outside. This is hockey country, and most of us don't have any interest in bouncey-ball. Sorry if that's so hard for you to accept, but it's the truth. Don't you have an anti-hockey forum where you can spew your garbage?

Dave do you really believe in what you are posting? I mean come on you may hate basketball but to say the sport has no following around here is just absurd. I suppose when you said "most of us" you were refering to Sioux fans and not the rest of people in this great state, if that is what you meant then your post makes alot more sense.

[Bison Dan]

I don't hate bouncey-ball, I hate the Bison. Bouncey-ball just bores me, that's all. Give each team 80 points and one minute to play, and I still wouldn't have the patience to sit through that snooze-fest. A bad hockey game is 100 times more entertaining than a good bouncey-ball game. Allow goaltending and checking, and make them play in the summer when there's no hockey to watch... and then I might give it a chance.

By "most of us", I meant fans of colleges that have D-1 hockey. You never hear much about the bouncey-ball teams at Maine and New Hampshire, do you? I realize NDSU fans like it, but that's because they don't have a real cold weather winter sport to follow. They don't know any better. Considering that the FM area has five varsity high school hockey teams, it's a travesty that the local college doesn't have a team. So... the die-hards have to settle for the southerners' winter sport of choice. It's quite sad and pathetic, really.

Personally, if NDSU were to ever play hockey against Wisconsin (regardless of the outcome)... that would impress me a lot more than beating them in bouncey-ball. If and when that happens, I will respect NDSU. Till then, they aren't worthy of my respect.

And boy they sure want it davey!

[bincitysioux]

Reasons to go DI

It looks to me like if UND had gone DI in the same year that NDSU/SDSU did, we could have had Minnesota on the football schedule in 2006, for a nice guarantee game, if we wanted. NDSU has them for 2007, and UofM is looking for a game for 2006, but NDSU isn't so sure they're ready. My theory is that had UND been SU's partner in the move instead of/along with SDSU, UND would be much more attractive to Minnesota to bring in for football or basketball since we already have a 70 year old history and rivalry together.

NDSU, SDSU, and UNC are competing against schools like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Montana, and Montana St, in a wide variety of sports on a fairly regular basis, while UND is going to try to pack a state of the art basketball arena next weekend with something called Upper Iowa.

National recognition. No question that UND does and always has received more national exposure than our rivals in Fargo, and that will most likely continue for a long time. But NDSU could be closing the gap. Evidence: In just the local media a men's basketball team that is barely over .500 is overshadowing what could end up being one of the best collegiate women's basketball teams ever assembled by any university in North Dakota.

How many local recruits have chosen NDSU over UND this year mainly because of that "illustrious" DI label? Are we getting as many high quality South Dakota recruits as we used to? NDSU just beat the Wisconsin Badgers on their home court, which just happens to be in one of UND's prime recruiting areas for both football and basketball.

[informant]

NDSU-62 Wisconsin-55

Look at all the publicity the Bison are getting. Doesn't happen at the DII level. Coach Miles was scheduled to be on Cold Pizza this morning. That has to be a great recruiting tool. I would hate to see the outcome if they played the Sioux.

I agree. All of the heat that SU took for taking the leap has been painful. This win was good medicine for the entire Bison community...the players...the fans...the coaches...the AD...the president of SU...and the big money backers. I live in Southern California...and it's fun to watch the cable channels and actually see Bison scores roll across the screen along with all of the big programs. I grew up as a Sioux basketball/hockey fan, dating back to Phil Jackson days. I also grew up watching the Bison football dynasty over about 4 decades. It hurt to see the football dynasty slowly melt away. DII has dropped a lot over-all. The football reminds me of watching the Cobbers play when I went to school there. A few really good players with a bunch of decent players. Even the playoff teams look pretty average. It is a shame that the ncaa allowed so many small schools to enter DII, and to vote to water down the scholarships. But here we are. The road to survival and consistency in DI-AA appears to be long...but SU has taken some big steps forward. I wish that people in North Dakota could be huge Sioux Hockey fans and be the same for Bison football, each being the flagship programs at their perspective schools. It was truly amazing to be watching CBS last Saturday when they brought up the big upset in Madison. They had the full Bison logo and North Dakota St. written so that people knew that it wasn't Notre Dame or some other school. I look for the Bison to challenge for the Great West football title next year, barring a whole lot of injuries. That league has already proven to be a challenge for conferences like the Big Sky. UC-Davis beating Stanford at home last fall was another indicator of the level of play. And Stanford ended up winning a few games in the PAC-10. And as for no bowl games for a few more years...the fact is that going to UC Davis, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (on the beach), Southern Utah, and other road games are so beautiful that it seems like having about 3 or 4 bowl games every year.

I do have a question for die-hard Sioux fans. If the ncaa, in all its wisdom, made a ruling that a school had to have all of its programs at the same level...would UND allow its hockey program to go down to a lower level? Or would it move up? I think that we all know the answer. UND would save its flagship.

SU had some really poor leadership when Entzion was there. He allowed the Bison dynasty to go down with the DII ship. They should have made the jump then. The move up to DI-AA is merely a return home for Bison football. People in Fargo just want to see a very high caliber of football. They were used to watching a DI caliber football team. They're turning the corner pretty quickly, and the real fans are coming back. The flagship is returning in Fargo. But the win in Wisconsin was.......HUGE. It should go down as one of the greatest games in the history of North Dakota athletics. Wisconsin wouldn't have recruited one of SU's players. Miles pulled off a Miracle on Hardwood.

I wouldn't want UND to mess up its great hockey tradition. I want both schools to have great things. I also want the wars to stop. UND could make the transition if the desire were there. It's their decision. SU did what it had to do. SDSU, NDSU, and UND would make a strong hub for a new conference in DI-AA.

[Northcountry]

I agree. All of the heat that SU took for taking the leap has been painful. This win was good medicine for the entire Bison community...the players...the fans...the coaches...the AD...the president of SU...and the big money backers. I live in Southern California...and it's fun to watch the cable channels and actually see Bison scores roll across the screen along with all of the big programs. I grew up as a Sioux basketball/hockey fan, dating back to Phil Jackson days. I also grew up watching the Bison football dynasty over about 4 decades. It hurt to see the football dynasty slowly melt away. DII has dropped a lot over-all. The football reminds me of watching the Cobbers play when I went to school there. A few really good players with a bunch of decent players. Even the playoff teams look pretty average. It is a shame that the ncaa allowed so many small schools to enter DII, and to vote to water down the scholarships. But here we are. The road to survival and consistency in DI-AA appears to be long...but SU has taken some big steps forward. I wish that people in North Dakota could be huge Sioux Hockey fans and be the same for Bison football, each being the flagship programs at their perspective schools. It was truly amazing to be watching CBS last Saturday when they brought up the big upset in Madison. They had the full Bison logo and North Dakota St. written so that people knew that it wasn't Notre Dame or some other school. I look for the Bison to challenge for the Great West football title next year, barring a whole lot of injuries. That league has already proven to be a challenge for conferences like the Big Sky. UC-Davis beating Stanford at home last fall was another indicator of the level of play. And Stanford ended up winning a few games in the PAC-10. And as for no bowl games for a few more years...the fact is that going to UC Davis, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (on the beach), Southern Utah, and other road games are so beautiful that it seems like having about 3 or 4 bowl games every year.

I do have a question for die-hard Sioux fans. If the ncaa, in all its wisdom, made a ruling that a school had to have all of its programs at the same level...would UND allow its hockey program to go down to a lower level? Or would it move up? I think that we all know the answer. UND would save its flagship.

SU had some really poor leadership when Entzion was there. He allowed the Bison dynasty to go down with the DII ship. They should have made the jump then. The move up to DI-AA is merely a return home for Bison football. People in Fargo just want to see a very high caliber of football. They were used to watching a DI caliber football team. They're turning the corner pretty quickly, and the real fans are coming back. The flagship is returning in Fargo. But the win in Wisconsin was.......HUGE. It should go down as one of the greatest games in the history of North Dakota athletics. Wisconsin wouldn't have recruited one of SU's players. Miles pulled off a Miracle on Hardwood.

I wouldn't want UND to mess up its great hockey tradition. I want both schools to have great things. I also want the wars to stop. UND could make the transition if the desire were there. It's their decision. SU did what it had to do. SDSU, NDSU, and UND would make a strong hub for a new conference in DI-AA.

What is the word - Absurd?

[BostonSiouxFan]

You never hear much about the bouncey-ball teams at Maine and New Hampshire, do you? I realize NDSU fans like it, but that's because they don't have a real cold weather winter sport to follow. They don't know any better. Considering that the FM area has five varsity high school hockey teams, it's a travesty that the local college doesn't have a team. So... the die-hards have to settle for the southerners' winter sport of choice. It's quite sad and pathetic, really.

Personally, if NDSU were to ever play hockey against Wisconsin (regardless of the outcome)... that would impress me a lot more than beating them in bouncey-ball. If and when that happens, I will respect NDSU. Till then, they aren't worthy of my respect.

Dave,

You're a moron. Go ahead and make an ass of yourself, but please don't speak for this or other Sioux fans.

[The Sicatoka]

As great as NDSU 62, Wisconsin 55 was for Bison fans, how are they feeling this morning:

MBB (at Furman*) -

Furman 73

NDSU 61

WBB (at Fargo) -

Texas A&M Corpus Christi 62

NDSU 55

Are you ready for both edges of that sword?

It only takes one "Aw crap" to wipe out a whole-lotta "Atta boys!"

Let me restate my position in simplest form:

Answer "conference" and "costs" and you'll have the answer.

* Without looking it up, where is Furman? What conference are they in? Same for TAM-CC.

[IowaBison]

As great as NDSU 62, Wisconsin 55 was for Bison fans, how are they feeling this morning:

MBB (at Furman*) -

Furman 73

NDSU 61

WBB (at Fargo) -

Texas A&M Corpus Christi 62

NDSU 55

Are you ready for both edges of that sword?

It only takes one "Aw crap" to wipe out a whole-lotta "Atta boys!"

Let me restate my position in simplest form:

Answer "conference" and "costs" and you'll have the answer.

* Without looking it up, where is Furman? What conference are they in? Same for TAM-CC.

Furman is in Greenville, SC.

TAMU-CC is obviously in Texas.

Furman is in the Southern Conference.

TAMU-CC is independent.

I'd venture to say that just as many folks know where these schools are than know about Mankato, Augustana, Mary and Mayville.

Just because one is ignorant of a fact, doesn't make it unimportant.

[Bison Dan]

As great as NDSU 62, Wisconsin 55 was for Bison fans, how are they feeling this morning:

MBB (at Furman*) -

Furman 73

NDSU 61

WBB (at Fargo) -

Texas A&M Corpus Christi 62

NDSU 55

Are you ready for both edges of that sword?

It only takes one "Aw crap" to wipe out a whole-lotta "Atta boys!"

Let me restate my position in simplest form:

Answer "conference" and "costs" and you'll have the answer.

* Without looking it up, where is Furman? What conference are they in? Same for TAM-CC.

So this makes your point? Why is the sioux athletic dept looking at DI then? Is there going to be an instant conference if you decide to go DI?

[BostonSiouxFan]

Come on people, Furman is a DI team. At least NDSU isn't losing to Mayville and Minot State.

The Bison had the balls to move up and to date, UND hasn't. Apparently we're content in the VERY watered down ranks of DII.

[The Sicatoka]

Of course I'd expect Bison fans to know those answers.

What I want Sioux fans to have completely thought about (dare I quote NDSU's Carr Report and say, "Establish an institutional consensus ...") is are they ready for DI and everything that comes with it, namely, are you ready for both edges of the sword?

Let me restate my position in simplest form:

Answer "conference" and "costs" and you'll have the answer. Answer even one* of them and you'll have the answer.

* Conference makes travel budget a better known which makes costs better known which solves a big chunk of costs. Alternatively, an answer to costs means you have the money in hand and that solves just about anything, plus it makes you more attractive to conferences.

[CoteauRinkRat]

* Conference makes travel budget a better known which makes costs better known which solves a big chunk of costs.

"Um, can you repeat the part of the stuff where you said all about the ... things?"

[BisonMav]

As great as NDSU 62, Wisconsin 55 was for Bison fans, how are they feeling this morning:

MBB (at Furman*) -

Furman 73

NDSU 61

WBB (at Fargo) -

Texas A&M Corpus Christi 62

NDSU 55

Are you ready for both edges of that sword?

It only takes one "Aw crap" to wipe out a whole-lotta "Atta boys!"

Let me restate my position in simplest form:

Answer "conference" and "costs" and you'll have the answer.

* Without looking it up, where is Furman? What conference are they in? Same for TAM-CC.

RPI also means something different to UND fans than NDSU fans.

*RPI Hockey team vs RPI basketball ratings

[bincitysioux]

I know where Furman is. I know they have a decent DI basketball program, and a very solid I-AA football program. I know more about them than I do Upper Iowa. Lucky for me, if I wanted to learn about Upper Iowa, I could go see them in the Betty this weekend. I think I will choose to save my $11 and remain in the dark. I'd much rather listen to a Sioux basketball team lose to Furman on the road on the radio, than waste my time at a home double-header that includes Mary and Upper Iowa.

[rochsioux]

I basically follow three sports for past 35+ years.

Hockey:

Already DI and consistently one of the top programs in the country.

Football:

Consistently one of the top DII programs. I have no doubt they would be very successful at the DIAA level if they want to be.

BB:

Men's program in poor shape and has never consistently been considered a top program in DII. Schedule sucks and is hard to generate any interest playing Upper Iowa, Mary, Crookston, Valley City State, Mayville, Minot State, etc. Take a look at the schedule and name more than one or two home games that would get fans excited. Now, is this due to the fact the team is not a powerhouse or because of the schedule ? If they were a dominate DII team with this schedule would that excite the fans ? With the schedule they have they should rarely lose at home. A combination of poor schedule and poor results will destroy fan support. Frankly I don't see this getting any better.

The Women's program is consistently one of the top DII programs. It is here that I have my biggest doubts about going DI.

So for football I think UND would be competitive and would still be able to challege for an NCAA championship. Men's basketball will struggle but they already struggle in DII. At least in DI the talent level will be upgraded and the teams they play should be more appealing. Can't see fan enthusiasm being any worse. I think the women's bb program would be competitive but probably won't challenge for the NCAA title.

As for other sports I don't follow them enough to know the impact. I do think the decision to go DI has to focus on the revenue generating sports and the impact to them.

I don't see the DII landscape improving over time, only degrading further as more quality teams leave for DI and scholarships get cut. IMO, it is not a matter of if, only when UND will make the move. If not for pesky little things like conference and $$$ I think the decision would have already been made.

I think if UND goes, St. Cloud and UNO will follow suit, then USD can't be far behind. Maybe then discussion will start up again about forming a DI NCC conference.