UND's DI review committee

[Bison Dan]

The number 1 reason that UND didn't go DI when NDSU did is they were very happy with DI hockey and dii with everything else. As long as NDSU was dii, life was GOOD. You can list all the reasons you want but UND never gave moving to DI in all sports a thought when NDSU did. Hence all the comments from UND's coaches and athletic dept. when NDSU announced their move.

[star2city]

1. Acceptable

2. Despite what everyone on this board thinks, there still is no conference available to UND. Maybe I'm wrong, but I won't believe until I see it.

3. I'm sorry, but the level I've seen in Grand Forks from buisnesses is exceptional. How much more do you really expect for them to contribute to UND? I think you're pretty much maxed out.

4. I seriously doubt hosting the womens basketball championship at the Alerus is a reason for going D-I, unless you're saying you want to host the D-I basketball championship. I fail to see how going D-I solves this problem.

5. How is that ideal? You could have to spend millions to renovate the REA. Doesn't seem so helpful to me, especially when your upgrading scholarships.

2. Wait and see. It's O.K. to be a Doubting Thomas.

3. On what basis can you say GF businesses are maxed out in their support of UND? Been to Manhattan (KS), or Lawrence, or Ames, or Fayetteville (AR) or even more appropriately Bozeman, Missoula, Laramie, or Moscow? Businesses in those cities are probably maxed out.

5. You don't seem to understand. There was hope that GF would be a championship hosting city an a regular basis in DII. Hosting NCAA championships or even regionals as a way of gaining visitors is not viewed as a reasonable hope anymore (except in the case of hockey, if the nickname is resolved).

6. Name change - there is no intention, yet, to change the nickname or renovate the REA. With the transition, there is no playoffs, so hosting or uniforms are not an issue. A DI transition is the perfect time to deal with the nickname issue (court appeals, etc.).

[jackrabbit1979]

2. Wait and see. It's O.K. to be a Doubting Thomas.

3. On what basis can you say GF businesses are maxed out in their support of UND? Been to Manhattan (KS), or Lawrence, or Ames, or Fayetteville (AR) or even more appropriately Bozeman, Missoula, Laramie, or Moscow? Businesses in those cities are probably maxed out.

5. You don't seem to understand. There was hope that GF would be a championship hosting city an a regular basis in DII. Hosting NCAA championships or even regionals as a way of gaining visitors is not viewed as a reasonable hope anymore (except in the case of hockey, if the nickname is resolved).

6. Name change - there is no intention, yet, to change the nickname or renovate the REA. With the transition, there is no playoffs, so hosting or uniforms are not an issue. A DI transition is the perfect time to deal with the nickname issue (court appeals, etc.).

I am pretty sure 89Rabbit's name begins with "M". Don't act like you know everything Star2City.

[dlsiouxfan]

When ndac and sdsu announced they were moving up UND was fresh off their first D-2 football national championship and were looking forward to future ones. Ndac and sdsu hadn't seen one in over a decade so the prospect of postseason ineligibility was trivial to them because they hadn't seen the postseason for that long anyways. Eventually feelings changed and most Sioux fans, alumni, administrators have crossed over into being D-2 proponents. Trust me if UND had partnered with the Ag college both would probably be in the Big Sky right now. SDSU can best be compared to a fat chick who hangs around her good- looking friends hoping some guy picks her up too.

[NDSU grad]

When ndac and sdsu announced they were moving up UND was fresh off their first D-2 football national championship and were looking forward to future ones. Ndac and sdsu hadn't seen one in over a decade so the prospect of postseason ineligibility was trivial to them because they hadn't seen the postseason for that long anyways. Eventually feelings changed and most Sioux fans, alumni, administrators have crossed over into being D-2 proponents. Trust me if UND had partnered with the Ag college both would probably be in the Big Sky right now. SDSU can best be compared to a fat chick who hangs around her good- looking friends hoping some guy picks her up too.

Yes it had been whopping two years since we'd seen the post-season in football, so your scenario makes perfect sense.

[Cratter]

yeah, no possibility of that being manipulated. I mean UNC should be congratulated for spending the EXACT amount of money that came in this year. NDSU too, thats a real feat.

You're finally starting to understand. Numbers can be manipulated. UND being in the "red" could just mean any number of different things. Like being truthful while others are not. SDSU was not any better financially when they went D1 than UND will be. UND is (trying) not to lead with their heart and emotions like SDSU did, but (like Kuppy said we might have to) when 3 of your conference mates leave within a few years it makes it harder on you and in a way "forces" you to move.

[The Sicatoka]

The numbers are presented here as they were reported to the NCAA. No attempt was made to change or research anomalies. The NCAA does that.

Despite improvements in accounting procedures, schools still differ in how they report certain information. For example, some placed all contributions in the "non-program specific" category, while others broke them down by football, men's basketball, etc.

That's from "the most detailed, publicly available database of college athletic department financial information ever assembled."

[IowaBison]

UND is (trying) not to lead with their heart and emotions like SDSU did, but (like Kuppy said we might have to) when 3 of your conference mates leave within a few years it makes it harder on you and in a way "forces" you to move.

It's funny you say that given what President Kupchella said himself in a letter printed in the Forum 16 months ago and in an interview by Steve Hallstrom that aired last night on WDAY.

[Bison Pride]

NDSU moved to Division I because at the time it was in the best interest of the university, Chapman had a vision which included increasing their academic and athletic exposure more nationally. UND stayed in division II because it was not in their best interest, they were in the middle of some important transitions already including the building of the Alerus and the REA, and there were too many unknown financial variables at the time to make that kind of move. Anybody who thinks that both universities were acting out of some other ulterior motive is delusional.

[aff]

You're finally starting to understand. Numbers can be manipulated. UND being in the "red" could just mean any number of different things. Like being truthful while others are not. SDSU was not any better financially when they went D1 than UND will be. UND is (trying) not to lead with their heart and emotions like SDSU did, but (like Kuppy said we might have to) when 3 of your conference mates leave within a few years it makes it harder on you and in a way "forces" you to move.

Despite how much you guys seem to want to trash SDSU, I don't remember them having any tuition waivers instead of scholarships in D-II, do you? Like or not SDSU was better off then UND would be. Those tuition waivers are the reason that UND is running a deficit. In particular, Women's Hockey is hurting UND right now. I don't understand how, if you can't get the scholarships for womens' hockey, you think you can fund everything to a D-I level?

What do you guys have against SDSU? I've defended them and UNC, and yet you attack SDSU. I would have thought you would rip me for UNC, but for some reason SDSU is you're target? I don't understand.

[rabidrabbit]

Despite how much you guys seem to want to trash SDSU, I don't remember them having any tuition waivers instead of scholarships in D-II, do you? Like or not SDSU was better off then UND would be. Those tuition waivers are the reason that UND is running a deficit. In particular, Women's Hockey is hurting UND right now. I don't understand how, if you can't get the scholarships for womens' hockey, you think you can fund everything to a D-I level?

What do you guys have against SDSU? I've defended them and UNC, and yet you attack SDSU. I would have thought you would rip me for UNC, but for some reason SDSU is you're target? I don't understand.

Being honest, SDSU is successfully transitioning to D-1. Our football is playing very well, against top 25 competition, and we have the schollies transition in place to fund the 63 in 2008 at the latest. The Rabbits will succeed, and are succeeding quite well in other sports also. Likewise, I believe that IF UND does decide to transition to D-1, that you would succeed. There is no reason, whatsoever, to believe otherwise. If you are going to dive, you must envision success, otherwise you will belly or back flop. If you choose not to dive (move up), you won't have a clue as to what would have happend if you tried. Best of luck on the MANY decisions you have.

Many VERY nasty, dividing comments are going back & forth here, and also at bisonville. Trust me, you don't want to alienate your nearest 2 D-1AA compatriots. We will both succeed in this transition. UND is alone, and if succeed in getting NDSU & SDSU so disgusted with you, your nearest competitors become UNI & UNC. And trust that they won't help you to D-1 as much as the Rabbits/Bison could or likely would.

[The Sicatoka]

My question remains:

Why are fans of not just one but two DI-AAs so concerned about what a little ol' DII (with alleged budget problems, but with arguably the best facilities package already built) is doing?

Are things that slow in the great and wonderous DI-AA-land?

Or is there more to this?

Could it be that NDSU and SDSU know that

(a) a conference is now nearly make or break to future schedules and budgets, and

(b) the best option around might be the Big Sky and it takes UND to make that deal*?

If UND was as bad off as I read here from some fans of the SUs wouldn't those be rejoicing in the realm of not having to deal with head-to-head competition from UND for glory and all other things that come with DI-AA?

Say what you will about my hypothesis, but there must be some reason behind all the attention from fans of the SUs. If not this theory of mine, then what?

* 12 teams.

[UND Fan]

NDSU moved to Division I because at the time it was in the best interest of the university, Chapman had a vision which included increasing their academic and athletic exposure more nationally. UND stayed in division II because it was not in their best interest, they were in the middle of some important transitions already including the building of the Alerus and the REA, and there were too many unknown financial variables at the time to make that kind of move. Anybody who thinks that both universities were acting out of some other ulterior motive is delusional.

You are absolutely correct in your assessment - I appreciate your honesty and candor AND your lack of "smack"!

[Sioux27]

NDSU moved to Division I because at the time it was in the best interest of the university, Chapman had a vision which included increasing their academic and athletic exposure more nationally. UND stayed in division II because it was not in their best interest, they were in the middle of some important transitions already including the building of the Alerus and the REA, and there were too many unknown financial variables at the time to make that kind of move. Anybody who thinks that both universities were acting out of some other ulterior motive is delusional.

As much as I hate to agree with a Bison supporter. Bison Pride, you make a great point and I can't disagree with your rationale. I think the Bison definetely "beat us to the punch" with the move to DI. Despite what most of the Jack-$$es from NDSU might think, I believe that Big Irv was a HUGE factor in this transition! UND has been only slightly delayed in their transition, but the DI move will happen. I just hope it can be done with a renewed rivalry of playing the Bison once again.

With that said, I KNOW WE WILL KICK YOUR A$$ EVERYTIME, WITH OR WITHOUT THE NC$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aff]

My question remains:

Why are fans of not just one but two DI-AAs so concerned about what a little ol' DII (with alleged budget problems, but with arguably the best facilities package already built) is doing?

Are things that slow in the great and wonderous DI-AA-land?

Or is there more to this?

Could it be that NDSU and SDSU know that

(a) a conference is now nearly make or break to future schedules and budgets, and

(b) the best option around might be the Big Sky and it takes UND to make that deal*?

If UND was as bad off as I read here from some fans of the SUs wouldn't those be rejoicing in the realm of not having to deal with head-to-head competition from UND for glory and all other things that come with DI-AA?

Say what you will about my hypothesis, but there must be some reason behind all the attention from fans of the SUs. If not this theory of mine, then what?

* 12 teams.

A third team in the Dakota's going D-I is an interesting development, that would have effects on scheduling, and travel costs for both those schools. Also, UND is NDSU's main rival, and a renewal of the rivalry would be a big deal. You know that, don't turn it into something its not. I doubt that anyone on these message boards has any idea what if the big sky wants or doesn't want. For that matter, I doubt if the big sky knows what it wants.

Can you tell me that UND wasn't interested in NDSU or SDSU going D-I? From all of the articles I've read in the Grand Forks Herald (Editorials), I don't think that you should be talking about what other fans are wondering about. I would say the attraction goes both ways. Its really just an interesting story line in the soap opera of the NCC. To think anything else is simply arrogant. Nobody at those schools thinks they "need" UND. If all it took was another school for the big sky to come calling, I think you would see overtures to USD also. But you don't, because the current NCC schools have nothing to do with a D-I conference expansion.

Its going to be very interesting to read this board if SDSU and NDSU gain admission to the Mid Con with the indiana school in a month, and what happened to all these conspiracy theories. I'm going to come on here and demand to know what happened from everyone of you. The back tracking should be spectacular.

[rabidrabbit]

Mid-Con expansion for the SU's is more likely than Big Sky expansion. Since being in a conference is a key component to UND's decision, I am eager to see how/where UND joins a D-1 conference. Whereever it is, I suspect it's the same one as the SU's join. If it isn't, how UND did it, and survives the transition years with out the SU's being their active partner in all sports, I'm not fathoming.

I suspect the Mid-con decision will be made this summer. Has UND been in talks with the Mid-Con? Or just the Big Sky? The Big SKy has been a disappointment to the SU's while going through the tough transition years. Hope you have a conference home to move to!

[The Sicatoka]

The Mid-Con, with the recent loss of Chicago State, will probably be looking for a team or teams.

However, the Mid-Con would leave schools like the SUs with two problems:

1. the Great West for football (with only five schools in GWFC)

2. a league without "name" schools* and a lower BB RPI (compared to Big Sky)

* for comparison

Mid-Con: Centenary, IUPUI, UMKC, Oakland, Oral Roberts, Southern Utah, Valparaiso, Western Illinois

Big Sky: Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Weber State, Northern Arizona, Portland State, Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Northern Colorado

Great West Football: NDSU, SDSU, Southern Utah, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis

[BisonMav]

The Mid-Con, with the recent loss of Chicago State, will probably be looking for a team or teams.

However, the Mid-Con would leave schools like the SUs with two problems:

1. the Great West for football (with only five schools in GWFC)

2. a league without "name" schools* and a lower BB RPI (compared to Big Sky)

* for comparison

Mid-Con: Centenary, IUPUI, UMKC, Oakland, Oral Roberts, Southern Utah, Valparaiso, Western Illinois

Big Sky: Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Weber State, Northern Arizona, Portland State, Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Northern Colorado

Great West Football: NDSU, SDSU, Southern Utah, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis

RPI changes from year to year. Last year the Mid-Con had a better RPI than the Big Sky.

25 Mid Continent 0.4671

30 Big Sky 0.4475

[UND92,96]

I don't believe Steve Hallstrom has the greatest track record as a prognosticator, but he's predicting Kupchella is going to elect to remain division II. link.

[MplsBison]

RPI changes from year to year. Last year the Mid-Con had a better RPI than the Big Sky.

25 Mid Continent 0.4671

30 Big Sky 0.4475

And yet that season the Big Sky champion was seeded 16th outright while the Mid Con champion had to play the SWAC champ to earn a 16th seed.

Last season, the Big Sky champion was seede 12th (and won) and the Mid Con champion was seeded 16th outright (and lost).

RPI doesn't mean much from that perspective.

[nd1sufan]

The Mid-Con, with the recent loss of Chicago State, will probably be looking for a team or teams.

However, the Mid-Con would leave schools like the SUs with two problems:

1. the Great West for football (with only five schools in GWFC)

2. a league without "name" schools* and a lower BB RPI (compared to Big Sky)

* for comparison

Mid-Con: Centenary, IUPUI, UMKC, Oakland, Oral Roberts, Southern Utah, Valparaiso, Western Illinois

Big Sky: Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Weber State, Northern Arizona, Portland State, Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Northern Colorado

Great West Football: NDSU, SDSU, Southern Utah, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis

Maybe you can help me out, but which one of the Big Sky schoold are "name schools" in basketball. I would say on the lists from both conferences, Valparaiso is the most recognizable "name school" there.

As for football, a Great West team made the playoffs last year and will probably continue to make it every year considering the strength of the league even without an automatic qualifier. The GWFC is also talking to the Big South (also with 5 teams) about merging to get the automatic qualifier.

[BisonMav]

And yet that season the Big Sky champion was seeded 16th outright while the Mid Con champion had to play the SWAC champ to earn a 16th seed.

Last season, the Big Sky champion was seede 12th (and won) and the Mid Con champion was seeded 16th outright (and lost).

RPI doesn't mean much from that perspective.

And if the Mid-Con champion had won the Mid-Con playoffs, they would not have had the play-in game.

and so on

My point was that you could not judge these conferences by 1 or 2 good years.

As mentioned prior, Valpo was a 13 and won a first round game in the past.

[MplsBison]

And if the Mid-Con champion had won the Mid-Con playoffs, they would not have had the play-in game.

Huh?

The Mid Con champion (Oakland) did win the Mid Con Tournament.

If you're trying to say that had ORU won the MC Tournament in 2005 they would've been seeded 16th outright, well then maybe that's right. Who knows?

[The Sicatoka]

Maybe you can help me out, but which one of the Big Sky schoold are "name schools" in basketball.

I didn't say anything about "in" a particular sport (note the "and" between the "name schools" thought and the "BB RPI" thought).

Quite simply:

Montana or IUPUI?

Montana State or Centenary?

[The Sicatoka]

I don't believe Steve Hallstrom has the greatest track record as a prognosticator, but he's predicting Kupchella is going to elect to remain division II. link.

Hallstrom admits he had Miles going to UNC-Whichever in that column.