The Great Regional Debate

[cberkas]

Since its the offseason and not much going on for the most part. With the coaches meeting talking about regionals again wanting a change had me thinking about every option I've heard brought up so far. The argument is other NCAA tournaments are at home sites, true but where else would they play. Baseball isn't going to be played at MLB or iMLB stadiums (could use spring training facilities I guess), Softball only has on campus stadium, same with lacrosse, soccer (could use MLS stadiums), Football (FBS) could use NFL stadiums for the CFP, but at least they have a playoff. Now Basketball, March Madness, the biggest tournament and looks to be expanding again has the following rules for men's and women's (doesn't look like women's follows them).

 

I'd hate hockey to have those rules. The biggest problems are hockey is competing with basketball and the afternoon games on Thursday and Friday don't help attendance. Even basketball as empty arenas for games. 

The ideas I've heard for what to do for the regionals. Now there are rules that the NCAA has NHL arenas for the Frozen Four only, need the hotels and public transportation to handle it, lockers for 4 teams, and 5000-seat capacity. For most of the ideas these would have to change, especially the 5000-seat capacity. 

Top 4 host: I know that once all the top 4 teams are in the East or West the complaining from all side will happen. You also have arenas like Yost that don't have the lockers for the teams.

Top 8 host the bottom 8: This would only work with a best of 3 series but be prepared for the broadcast to be college students and radio guys calling games. This might get Alex and the best tv guys calling games, because ESPN has only Sean Ritchlin that is good at the NCAA tournament. This way would also have everyone playing Friday and Saturday with a Sunday, if necessary, game. If you are for "grow the game" and "games need to be on ESPN/ABC", these would be on ESPN+ with a couple on TV at most. Because the teams would want to play at 6 or 7 local time. This would also be more expensive for teams with travel, need to keep teams not lose more because for financial reasons.

6 AQs and top 2 at large host: This is just dumb and it's dumb because why would an AHA team host when they are always below 16. This is same as top 8/bottom 8. 

West bids home sites/hybrid: This might be the one that everyone would agree on. East has their neutral sites and the West and use their arenas. Win-win-win everyone gets what they want. The NCHC, CCHA, and B1G need to get together and agree to only their arenas not USHL or AHL arenas, but Penn State would screw this up with Allentown. 

Super Regionals: I just can't see NHL letting the NCAA use 3 buildings for 3 to 4 weeks (need to get this ice ready at least a week before the games). 

The WJC idea: This was posted on here 1 city two arenas all the teams. Not sure this would work all that well and be limited to specific cities, Tampa being popular wouldn't have the tournament with this format. 

I'm for AHA can't host, A team has to make the NCAAs in the last 5 years to host, if a site can't average 15k scanned through 3 games you can't host, and if you want to host at your home arena bid the arena and stop crying about it. Game times, ticket prices, and last minute knowing where you will play to start the tournament all affect the attendance. There is no perfect solution to this. NCAA, NHL, College Hockey Inc. needs to advertise the NCAA tournament at the site location, during NHL games from December until the Frozen Four. The worst thing the NCAA does is sabotages themselves but not promoting this tournament. People in Albany had no idea the tournament was going on because it wasn't advertised.

NCAA Leaders Discuss the State, and Future, of College Hockey : College Hockey News

The State of the Game press conference the NCAA hockey committee chair is looking at Frozen Fours where they can grow the game.

Quote

"Just having additional opportunities to play college hockey is good," Troville said. "I think where we choose to put the Frozen Four may weigh into that, too."

Troville suggested that in about six months, sites for the 2029, 2030 and 2031 Frozen Fours will be announced. Washington D.C. and Chicago will host the event in 2027 and 2028, respectively.

The discussion about future Frozen Four sites is — right now — tied closely to the discussion regarding growing college hockey programs in other parts of the country.

"I was talking earlier about a program like UNLV, them being nearby," Troville said. "We have several that are in the south, which you would consider ACC and SEC country. They're playing high-level hockey. When we get to Tampa, Florida now has become an NHL juggernaut in hockey. Can we get some college hockey programs there? Even recently I've said in the past if you look at what like Arizona State has done, some of those places. We were just in St. Louis. Adding Lindenwood, some of those programs. I do think we could have some influence by bringing this tournament to some of those areas. Thinking about Pacific Northwest, what can we do up there to bring this tournament, those type of cities."

They did like Vegas and what to bring it back there. Future sites I can see being Seattle, Salt Lake City (once the Delta Center is finished), Raleigh, Sunshine (Panthers), San Jose (after the renovation), and Dallas getting Frozen Fours at some point. This would be a good way to grow the game.  

 

 

[farce poobah]

I like the top 8 host the bottom 8.  And I don't see why that has to be best-of-3.  Keep the tournament as single elimination.

(The only way I would accept AQ's all host in the scenario where 8 teams host first round, is if the politics require it.  ... The CCHA and AHA would likely vote for it.)

I agree with your comments on other scenarios, all of which have obvious disadvantage.

=====================

If the topic expands to Frozen Four, I'd like ticket allocations to particpating schools to double, or more. Much better atmosphere, in person and on TV. 

[cberkas]

11 hours ago, farce poobah said:

I like the top 8 host the bottom 8.  And I don't see why that has to be best-of-3.  Keep the tournament as single elimination.

(The only way I would accept AQ's all host in the scenario where 8 teams host first round, is if the politics require it.  ... The CCHA and AHA would likely vote for it.)

I agree with your comments on other scenarios, all of which have obvious disadvantage.

=====================

If the topic expands to Frozen Four, I'd like ticket allocations to particpating schools to double, or more. Much better atmosphere, in person and on TV. 

The all AQ’s with top two at large is the same as top 8/bottom 8

[crb1]

7 hours ago, cberkas said:

Since its the offseason and not much going on for the most part. With the coaches meeting talking about regionals again wanting a change had me thinking about every option I've heard brought up so far. The argument is other NCAA tournaments are at home sites, true but where else would they play. Baseball isn't going to be played at MLB or iMLB stadiums (could use spring training facilities I guess), Softball only has on campus stadium, same with lacrosse, soccer (could use MLS stadiums), Football (FBS) could use NFL stadiums for the CFP, but at least they have a playoff. Now Basketball, March Madness, the biggest tournament and looks to be expanding again has the following rules for men's and women's (doesn't look like women's follows them).

 

I'd hate hockey to have those rules. The biggest problems are hockey is competing with basketball and the afternoon games on Thursday and Friday don't help attendance. Even basketball as empty arenas for games. 

The ideas I've heard for what to do for the regionals. Now there are rules that the NCAA has NHL arenas for the Frozen Four only, need the hotels and public transportation to handle it, lockers for 4 teams, and 5000-seat capacity. For most of the ideas these would have to change, especially the 5000-seat capacity. 

Top 4 host: I know that once all the top 4 teams are in the East or West the complaining from all side will happen. You also have arenas like Yost that don't have the lockers for the teams.

Top 8 host the bottom 8: This would only work with a best of 3 series but be prepared for the broadcast to be college students and radio guys calling games. This might get Alex and the best tv guys calling games, because ESPN has only Sean Ritchlin that is good at the NCAA tournament. This way would also have everyone playing Friday and Saturday with a Sunday, if necessary, game. If you are for "grow the game" and "games need to be on ESPN/ABC", these would be on ESPN+ with a couple on TV at most. Because the teams would want to play at 6 or 7 local time. This would also be more expensive for teams with travel, need to keep teams not lose more because for financial reasons.

6 AQs and top 2 at large host: This is just dumb and it's dumb because why would an AHA team host when they are always below 16. This is same as top 8/bottom 8. 

West bids home sites/hybrid: This might be the one that everyone would agree on. East has their neutral sites and the West and use their arenas. Win-win-win everyone gets what they want. The NCHC, CCHA, and B1G need to get together and agree to only their arenas not USHL or AHL arenas, but Penn State would screw this up with Allentown. 

Super Regionals: I just can't see NHL letting the NCAA use 3 buildings for 3 to 4 weeks (need to get this ice ready at least a week before the games). 

The WJC idea: This was posted on here 1 city two arenas all the teams. Not sure this would work all that well and be limited to specific cities, Tampa being popular wouldn't have the tournament with this format. 

I'm for AHA can't host, A team has to make the NCAAs in the last 5 years to host, if a site can't average 15k scanned through 3 games you can't host, and if you want to host at your home arena bid the arena and stop crying about it. Game times, ticket prices, and last minute knowing where you will play to start the tournament all affect the attendance. There is no perfect solution to this. NCAA, NHL, College Hockey Inc. needs to advertise the NCAA tournament at the site location, during NHL games from December until the Frozen Four. The worst thing the NCAA does is sabotages themselves but not promoting this tournament. People in Albany had no idea the tournament was going on because it wasn't advertised.

NCAA Leaders Discuss the State, and Future, of College Hockey : College Hockey News

The State of the Game press conference the NCAA hockey committee chair is looking at Frozen Fours where they can grow the game.

They did like Vegas and what to bring it back there. Future sites I can see being Seattle, Salt Lake City (once the Delta Center is finished), Raleigh, Sunshine (Panthers), San Jose (after the renovation), and Dallas getting Frozen Fours at some point. This would be a good way to grow the game.  

 

 

Vegas is a tough one though. It is a nice event and the weather was great , but let’s be honest Vegas in its current form has an affordability problem. At this point anywhere except Vegas would be ok in my opinion. 

[atxsioux]

9 hours ago, farce poobah said:

I like the top 8 host the bottom 8.  And I don't see why that has to be best-of-3.  Keep the tournament as single elimination.

(The only way I would accept AQ's all host in the scenario where 8 teams host first round, is if the politics require it.  ... The CCHA and AHA would likely vote for it.)

I agree with your comments on other scenarios, all of which have obvious disadvantage.

=====================

If the topic expands to Frozen Four, I'd like ticket allocations to particpating schools to double, or more. Much better atmosphere, in person and on TV. 

I don't know how much more the ticket allocations should expand. The attendance at the Wisco vs UND game had 1 section for Michigan fans and 1 section for Denver fans that was very empty until halfway through the game when their fans finally started filing in. If you make the allocation larger for those lower bowl sections it's only going to get worse IMO

[Big Green]

40 minutes ago, atxsioux said:

I don't know how much more the ticket allocations should expand. The attendance at the Wisco vs UND game had 1 section for Michigan fans and 1 section for Denver fans that was very empty until halfway through the game when their fans finally started filing in. If you make the allocation larger for those lower bowl sections it's only going to get worse IMO

I think the answer would be to sell separate tickets for the 2 Thursday sessions and the ability's to purchase tickets for only when your team is playing.  heck you could sell those tickets Months ahead of time.  Set aside 2K tickets for each of the 4 teams that make the frozen four.  Tickets would be billed and assigned after your team makes the frozen four and after they make the championship game.

 

 

[Dustin]

11 hours ago, cberkas said:

Super Regionals: I just can't see NHL letting the NCAA use 3 buildings for 3 to 4 weeks (need to get this ice ready at least a week before the games). 

I've probably been the biggest promotor of the super regional and until you had mentioned it earlier had not considered the role the NHL plays in my idea of using the NHL arenas near the college hockey hotbeds (MSP, Detroit, Boston, and maybe Denver).  But maybe the tournament concept of a super regional survives, but the location moves to secondary arenas, or a combination of NHL and secondary.  I like the idea of having 2 locations (instead of 4), and organizing the pods (not the seeding) as regionally as possible.   So, basically, if MSP is one of the super regional sites, and UND is a tournament lock, there should be pretty high confidence that the pod UND is in gets to play in MSP. 

[cberkas]

Fixing the easier stuff should be the first priority, since you’ll never get teams to agree on the tournament format. Even Rand didn’t say he was for home sites during the Frozen Four on game notes. The Providence’s, Quinnipiac’s, and Boston schools know they have a good chance to be out East in the current set up, so why would they want a change it to home sites.

Promote the game since it’s not being remotely done out side of the College Hockey Inc ad “I played college hockey”. The NCHC didn’t stop talking about their tournament during games last season (or I remember them talking about it). The committee doesn’t need the other conferences to tell them to do that. Another one is why not wait until a week before the regionals to put tickets on sale. So you don’t get people buying the tickets months in advance thinking their team will be at one regional when they are at a different regional and to prevent resellers from jacking the prices up.