Basketball budget

[HockeyHawk]

8 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

how are we this "broke" when we've had to pay nearly zero for all our athletic complexes in the last 25 years...puzzlin'

Ask Chaves 

[SIOUXFAN97]

2 minutes ago, HockeyHawk said:

Sorry but Fargo is a way better place the GF, and Brookings is South and a little warmer. GF is by far the worst location.

inewz.tv

yeah fargo is a great place...getting better every day.

[forksandspoons]

25 minutes ago, HockeyHawk said:

Sorry but Fargo is a way better place the GF, and Brookings is South and a little warmer. GF is by far the worst location.

Ehh

[Long Snapper 92]

26 minutes ago, forksandspoons said:

Ehh

People will continue to come up with any excuse possible instead of just holding coaches accountable.

We have a coaching problem and we have a Chaves problem. 

[jdub27]

4 hours ago, HockeyHawk said:

Are you surprised Chaves didn’t tell the truth to the fans? But let’s be realistic the only way UND has a consistent chance at the top is to outspend others, people aren’t lining up to live in Grand Forks. 

What did he lie about? 

 

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

how are we this "broke" when we've had to pay nearly zero for all our athletic complexes in the last 25 years...puzzlin'

Read the usage agreement, UND isn't paying "nearly zero" for the athletic complexes. And they shouldn't, things don't magically run on no money. Again, it is all selective and creative accounting with no hard and fast guidelines, which is why it is tough to make a true comparison on things.

 

2 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Just read the usage agreement between UND and the Ralph.  Do some research to figure out how other schools pay for their facilities.  Read the guidelines for how schools are supposed to fill out the NCAA financial reports.  If you really care enough to find an answer you're gonna have to do the work yourself.  There's a ton of naunce and schools report things differently.

Thanks for providing the info, I was guessing you had it. 

I haven't dug into numbers for a while but as you stated, there is a huge deviation in how different schools report different things. I like the work that Matt Brown does but he's also very clear on that point that the numbers are nowhere near perfect, but it is also the closest you can get to actually seeing anything (which is still a long ways from actually understanding what is going on since there is a lot of latitude in how things are counted and assigned). 

For the record, that one adjustment does put UND slightly behind NDSU and at the bottom. There would be a ton of adjustments to make in order to get a true comparison between the Dakota 4 schools. This was just a simple and obvious one with UND have an outlier expense the other 3 likely don't show as I would guess the other 3 assign their operating costs for the facilities they own to the general athletic budget instead of splitting it out by sport since they are multi-sport facilities. UND has a usage agreement with a 3rd party operator and a little bit more clear way to assign those expenses to specific sports (assuming they adjusted from how I think they did it a decade or so ago). 

[SIOUXFAN97]

und didn't pay much of anything for the rea and betty....albrecht was funded in large by the family...and the alerus center is city owned.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 hours ago, HockeyHawk said:

Sorry but Fargo is a way better place the GF, and Brookings is South and a little warmer. GF is by far the worst location.

So we're back to the imaginary warm front again? 

Brookings is a much smaller town that has two major employers (SDSU and Daktronics) and not much else. And it's not that much warmer than the North Dakota schools, certainly not enough to get a recruit to pick the Bunnies instead.

All the Dakota schools are in flat, cold climates with long, dark winters. There's nothing anyone can do about it, so you have to focus on your strengths and things you can control.

[SIOUXFAN97]

top of mind first word for all 4 cities

vermillion=cows

brookings=pigs

fargo=crime

grand forks=red pepper

easy choice for students imo

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

und didn't pay much of anything for the rea and betty....albrecht was funded in large by the family...and the alerus center is city owned.

That capital portion was covered and they were amazing gifts and great assets for the benefit of UND.
However that doesn't cover operations, maintenance and upgrades that need to be funded.
It is also why I think it would be a bad idea for the REA/Betty to be turned over to UND (assuming they can come to terms on a more favorable operating agreement).

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

That capital portion was covered and they were amazing gifts and great assets for the benefit of UND.
However that doesn't cover operations, maintenance and upgrades that need to be funded.
It is also why I think it would be a bad idea for the REA/Betty to be turned over to UND (assuming they can come to terms on a more favorable operating agreement).

what i'm getting at is all 4 schools have operating expenses on their buidlings but all if not most of our buidlings we didn't pay for ....where'd that money go?

[UND69er]

51 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

So we're back to the imaginary warm front again? 

Brookings is a much smaller town that has two major employers (SDSU and Daktronics) and not much else. And it's not that much warmer than the North Dakota schools, certainly not enough to get a recruit to pick the Bunnies instead.

All the Dakota schools are in flat, cold climates with long, dark winters. There's nothing anyone can do about it, so you have to focus on your strengths and things you can control.

Brookings also has a Fortune 500 3M plant.

[GoodGood]

15 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

That capital portion was covered and they were amazing gifts and great assets for the benefit of UND.
However that doesn't cover operations, maintenance and upgrades that need to be funded.
It is also why I think it would be a bad idea for the REA/Betty to be turned over to UND (assuming they can come to terms on a more favorable operating agreement).

UND is cooked. You listed a bunch of routine maintenance items as a reason UND can’t afford anything 

[UND69er]

2 hours ago, Long Snapper 92 said:

People will continue to come up with any excuse possible instead of just holding coaches accountable.

We have a coaching problem and we have a Chaves problem. 

UND does have an AD problem. We've settled for mediocrity with no vision for many years. The last 20 years we've become the bottom of the Dakota 4 whereas previously we were often at the top.

[jdub27]

4 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

what i'm getting at is all 4 schools have operating expenses on their buidlings but all if not most of our buidlings we didn't pay for ....where'd that money go?

Easier to run through part of it through the operating budget when they are school owned and used for things that can be considered academic. Other parts aren't allocated directly to sports, they are in the general athletics budget. 

Not sure what you're trying to get at but the whole basis of this thread is off and has went further off the rails with people not having a clue how athletic budgets work but still trying to compare apples to baseball bats. 

[Long Snapper 92]

9 hours ago, jdub27 said:

Easier to run through part of it through the operating budget when they are school owned and used for things that can be considered academic. Other parts aren't allocated directly to sports, they are in the general athletics budget. 

Not sure what you're trying to get at but the whole basis of this thread is off and has went further off the rails with people not having a clue how athletic budgets work but still trying to compare apples to baseball bats. 

Maybe it’s you that has no clue how athletic budgets work since you’re in the minority on this topic?? Just a thought

[The Sicatoka]

I'd say @jdub27 has pretty good understanding of athletic budgets. 

[GoodGood]

1 minute ago, The Sicatoka said:

I'd say @jdub27 has pretty good understanding of athletic budgets. 

But he did list a bunch of routine maintenance items as a reason UND couldn’t afford anything 

[Long Snapper 92]

1 minute ago, GoodGood said:

But he did list a bunch of routine maintenance items as a reason UND couldn’t afford anything 

Puzzlin’ to say the least 

[gfhockey]

So even though we spend more on men’s basketball per what we file with the ncaa we don’t actually spend that amount of money?

 

shouldn’t auditors gobble that up? 

[FSSD]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

I'd say @jdub27 has pretty good understanding of athletic budgets. 

I agree @jdub27 and @nodak651 are informative on this stuff.

[Long Snapper 92]

56 minutes ago, FSSD said:

I agree @jdub27 and @nodak651 are informative on this stuff.

So who is fudging numbers then? @jdub27? Chaves? The guy who pulled all the data?

Someone has to be messing with the numbers! I’ve been told we don’t spend enough money and that’s why we can’t win games. But these numbers are saying the exact opposite!
 

@gfhockey what are your sources saying? 

[jdub27]

20 minutes ago, Long Snapper 92 said:

So who is fudging numbers then? @jdub27? Chaves? The guy who pulled all the data?

Someone has to be messing with the numbers! I’ve been told we don’t spend enough money and that’s why we can’t win games. But these numbers are saying the exact opposite!
 

@gfhockey what are your sources saying? 

No one is fudging numbers when there isn't a guideline on how to report them. Each individual school does it their own way. Some try to make it more accurate by digging into expenses, others lump it into a giant bucket and call it good.

My point on the facilities expense was it is an outlier when looking at the MBB budget for the Dakota 4 schools. Does UND really spend more because they report their MBB facilities expense while the other 3 schools run it through general university or athletic department line items instead of tying it to a specific sport? Take that one simple outlier out and you get a better comparison.

If schools made there EADA source report more accessible, you could start comparing things a little more close, but it is still going to be pretty vague. For example, the most recent EADA report NDSU has publicly listed was published in March, 2024 for the calendar year ending on 6/30/23, SDSU doesn't list one and USD has their most recent one available but it is only the summary, not the actual report.

[UND1983]

The UND twitter burner accounts are also forensic accountants in their spare time

[The Sicatoka]

I know an Eide Bailly auditor who specializes in electric co-ops. He says if you know one co-op, you know one co-op. Same industry but they all account slightly differently. Same thing in college athletics accounting.

When you see one school with a facility expense assigned to a program and another wiith none, it means the second school charges facilities as a lump to the department and doesn't break down by program. Both are legitimate accounting. 

[McBuckets]

28 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

The UND twitter burner accounts are also forensic accountants in their spare time

Isn’t this whole site UND burner accounts?