The Death of a Nation

[bigsioux21]

I know I have not been posting a lot but I have been reading a lot of these posts and I would like to say two things, (1) GK you need to listen to what people are actually saying and not listening to what you want to hear, and (2) Yttrium your posts are very good I agree completely with what you are saying...congrats!!!

[fightonsioux]

GK says he backs his people up, yet it's most of his people that back the Sioux nickname. Do you also back up your people that want the name kept?

[bigsioux21]

GK says he backs his people up, yet it's most of his people that back the Sioux nickname. Do you also back up your people that want the name kept?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes as a student here at UND I do...I think that the FIGHTING SIOUX name is great honor for the state of North Dakota and the people that live in this state.

[dagies]

Great comments, Yttrium. Thanks for posting.

[Sioux-cia]

Very logical, to the point comments Yttrium. This subject is an emotional one for most of us. We have been trying to defend our points logically, historically, and morally. Unfortunately, because the majority of us who are pro-Fighting Sioux are not American Indian a couple of posters, one who is American Indian and the other who is his wife, believe our support is without credence. Thank you for your heartfelt comments.

[redwing77]

Thank you Yttrium. I agree with everything you say.

GK's warped viewpoint probably doesn't even represent a good portion of the pro-name changers I'd wager. He's far too extreme and resorts far too often to name calling, insulting, and immaturity to truly be taken seriously.

As for your proposition to the "Fighting Chippewa," what about it? If we have to change the name, why not?

[PCM]

As for your proposition to the "Fighting Chippewa," what about it?

Edited October 6, 2005 by PCM

[redwing77]

[sioux goo]

GK says he backs his people up, yet it's most of his people that back the Sioux nickname. Do you also back up your people that want the name kept?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

those people are being told to be quiet!!!

[Sioux-cia]

those people are being told to be quiet!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is freedom of speech not a right of the people who live in the Soverign Nation of the Sioux?

[HockeyMom]

Wow! That's all I can say. WOW!

Thank you Yttrium.

[iramurphy]

[GBpakrzz]

As for your proposition to the "Fighting Chippewa," what about it? If we have to change the name, why not?

___________________________________________________________________

Especially when you consider that Chippewas is already an NCAA-approved name and the NCAA has set the precedent of requiring the approval of just one namesake tribe for use of a name.

____________________________________________________________________

I prefer the "Fightin' Honkies". That way we could be done with this debate forever because nobody would complain and hell, who would listen anyhow??

[GrahamKracker]

Aniin and Hou-koda to my brothers & sisters:

Thanks for your kind replies to my heartfelt message.

The things that go on at the UND campus go on everywhere in this world.  You cannot stop the way other people feel.  You must go on.  That's why our reservations are the way they are right now.  So worried about what someones saying about you .. about our people.  Have you ever said anything negative about a white person grahamcracker?

We all know that answer.

Just like I said last night ... we must move forward and quit crying about the past and how someone hurt my feelings.  My feelings get hurt everyday but I get up for work ... help kids ... make my family stronger to accept people of all color ... dream and aspire to do better.

This issue (the Fighting Sioux name and logo) is all about power and how our people once again get influenced by the white man in what's right for Native Americans.  Don't you realize what the word "honor" means.  You never told me if you were an athlete too grahamcracker?  Well, are you? 

Why don't you go and talk w/ every single former athlete, current athlete so you can see the passion and pride these Fighting Sioux warriors have.  Shame on you for trying to take something away that your entire state is so proud of.

Maybe they can teach a thing or two on loyalty, pride and dignity.  You better wake up and smell the coffee.  You should be proud that UND has chosen to respect the Sioux nation.  And just because someone hurts your feelings you want your people's namesake taken away.

As I mentioned ealier, I'm Native American and making a solid difference in lives of not only our people but children of all colors.  It's what the Great Spirit choose me to do.  I see them only as human beings ... as Americans ... as our brothers and sisters.

It's 2005 and we must move forward.  By losing that Fighting Sioux name and logo your Sioux people will forever lose their identity.  But maybe that's what you want so no one can hurt your feelings anymore.

It's time that UND and the students (alumni and current) take a stand to keep the Fighting Sioux name. 

May the Great Spirit protect and guide you on your "Good Path".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

O---------------M--------------------G

I can't believe that you say the same things that the people here say, " By losing that Fighting Sioux name and logo your Sioux people will forever lose their identity"....that just proves how much "Indian" you really are. And by the way, you can claim you Indian-ness all you want, but are you enrolled? Nope, didn't think so.

No, I'm not an athlete (not a collegiate athlete, anyways), but what you are saying is that I need to be an athlete to feel the SIOUX Pride? How about being SIOUX? I guess that doesn't count, eh? I am Lakota to the bone!!! I practice my Lakota way of life, I am teaching my children Lakota, I am proud of who I am and who I stand for, and no one can tell me different.

I'm not bitching, I'm only telling you the facts... and that is....the SIOUX NATION does not want you using our name/that logo to represent this University....how come you can't get that?

I agree....lets move out of the past. But the first step in doing that is changing this logo, because it is the past. There was a time when you could treat Natives with less respect than anyone else, but that time has expired. Plain and simple.

[GrahamKracker]

[PCM]

I can't believe that you say the same things that the people here say, " By losing that Fighting Sioux name and logo your Sioux people will forever lose their identity"....that just proves how much "Indian" you really are. 

So all Indians must share your opinions or they're not real?

And by the way, you can claim you Indian-ness all you want, but are you enrolled?  Nope, didn't think so. 

Are you saying that enrolled Indians have the exact same opinions? And they just happen to be the same as yours?

No, I'm not an athlete (not a collegiate athlete, anyways), but what you are saying is that I need to be an athlete to feel the SIOUX Pride? 

No, that's not what I think he is saying. I believe he was trying to explain how special the Sioux name and logo are to UND's athletes. You don't have to be an athlete to understand that, but it probably helps. Some of us understand his point. You don't and probably never will.

How about being SIOUX? I guess that doesn't count, eh?

Of course it counts. Nobody said it didn't. But does being Sioux make your opinion count 10 times more than anyone else's? Does it imbue you with special rights that the rest of us don't have? Why do you think that only your opinion counts?

I am Lakota to the bone!!!  I practice my Lakota way of life, I am teaching my children Lakota, I am proud of who I am and who I stand for, and no one can tell me different.

Nobody is trying to tell you that you shouldn't do any of those things. You should.

I'm not bitching...

Yes you are.

...I'm only telling you the facts... and that is....the SIOUX NATION does not want you using our name/that logo to represent this University....how come you can't get that?

Maybe if you repeat it about a thousand more times, we'll finally get it.

I agree....lets move out of the past.  But the first step in doing that is changing this logo, because it is the past. 

You're right. The Sioux warrior and warrior spirit are things of the past. It's just like the Vikings and their warrior spirit. Things of the past.

There was a time when you could treat Natives with less respect than anyone else, but that time has expired.  Plain and simple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You'll get respect when you earn it. Changing the name and logo doesn't earn you an ounce of respect. Plain and simple.

[HockeyMom]

Boy, now I have heard everything......I think you hate the University of North Dakota so bad because you feel like it gave you a raw deal. What better way to get back at it by "claiming" that it's logo is the root of all evil.

I can't believe that you care so much about people who "look" one way or another. And I can't believe that you posted that you feel that way on a public forum.

Sad, very sad.

[PCM]

Actually, I was one of those who informed Doreen of the Lakota words she used in that article.  Yttrium has a right to say what he/she wants, that's fine.  What I am tired of is seeing these people, who aren't enrolled in a tribe, who aren't Sioux, thinking they could express the opinions of my people.

He's not expressing the opinions of your people. He's expressing his opinion. And I happen to know from personal experience that not all of your people agree with with you on the Sioux name issue, and I'm talking about enrolled tribal members who no doubt look just as Indian as you do.

Not to long ago I was a part of the INMED program.  Unfortunately, if you were to see the Indian "doctors" that are going through the program, you wouldn't even be able to pick them out of the crowd because they don't even look Indian.  After speaking w/ some of them, it blew me away because many of them only came through INMED to get into Med School and could give a rip about their people.  This was disheartening, because I come from one of the poorest counties/reservations in this country, and my people, those who were born on reservations/grew up on reservations/live on reservations, were being bumped from programs like INMED because someone who doesn't even look Indian or even know anything about Indians filled the slot(s) available.

Let me get this straight: Because not all the INMED medical students looked as Indian as you thought they should and not all of them planned to spend their lives the way you thought they should, you decided not to become a doctor and not to serve your people on the reservation? Does this really make sense to you?

[The Sicatoka]

GrahamKracker,

About your signature,

"Do you think JESUS would wear a SIOUX Jersey??"

We can never know.

As a public institution, someone would be offended by bringing religion (Jesus's statement) into a public campus discussion and put the ACLU all over us. I could only guess as to who would do it.

Thanks for your time.

[Sioux-cia]

[Siouxman]

After continuously reading all of these posts, I suddenly have a feeling (which obviously may be wrong since I am not Indian) that GK is not anti-Fighting Sioux name at all. It appears, from his extensive dialogue and the latest INMED revelations, that he is simply anti-UND and that this is a result of what he obviously feels was some type of mistreatment by UND. We don't know exactly what that alleged mistreatment is. However, it appears that the sole driving force behind his rantings and anti-Fighting Sioux rhetoric is that he is PO'd at UND and all of this is his way of getting even. To sum it all up, he is terribly mad at the entire world, other than those Sioux that choose to live on the reservation and perceivably suffer more than his perceived or supposed suffering. That is a terrible burden and an enormous chip on the shoulder to bear. All of this poisonous attitude is going to ruin what could have been a prductive and fruitful life.

Unfortunately, GK seems to suffer from a malady that is becoming more and more prevalent in all of society today. That is taking responsibility for one's own self. I have gained an enormous amount of respect during this dialogue for a number of individuals, Sioux-cia especially. And it has nothing to with anyone's position on the Fighting Sioux name debate. It has to do with perservering, setting and meeting goals, and taking responsibility for one's own situation.

GK, this has now turned into a sad commentary on your outlook on life and your failure to take responsibility for yourself. You are not responsible for anyone else or for representing others. You are solely responsible for representing yourself, and what you have represented so far is a very sad commentary.

Before you go blasting me for being non-Indian and not humanly possible of comprehending your situation, please take an honest look around the world with an open attitude. There are millions, if not billions, of people out there who have suffered horribly, and perservered without having such a poisonous attitude.

I am no longer upset at the illogical rantings of GK. It is with pity that I view such lousy outlook on life and the waste that attitude will bring.

[Goon]

After continuously reading all of these posts, I suddenly have a feeling (which obviously may be wrong since I am not Indian) that GK is not anti-Fighting Sioux name at all.  It appears, from his extensive dialogue and the latest INMED revelations, that he is simply anti-UND and that this is a result of what he obviously feels was some type of mistreatment by UND.  .

I would suggest that GK go to this site, http://www.UND-fraud.com/

It appears that this crowd may appeal to GK.

[Blackheart]

I dont' know why you guys waste your time reading through GK's b.s. You're just giving him the attention he needs....what the hell would this guy do without this forum? I'll bet his "friends" and family just tell him to give it a rest....

[Yttrium]

Yttrium- What does 'Ojibwe' mean in the Chippewa language? UND's school colors are Green, White, and "Prairie Rose (yuck)". In your opinion, should UND change their name to Ojibwe or Chippewa, would the school colors have to change too? If so, what would you think they'd change to that would be more symbolic towards the Ojibwe people?

[iramurphy]