Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Fetch]

& I bet more people will read what you just wrote than what Jacobs writes in a year His true colors are showing- he probably wanted some bird for a logo - I have one for him, but they don't allow that kinda stuff here

[ScottM]

It's interesting, but not surprising, that Jacobs has effectively distilled UND's complaints against the NC$$ down to an issue over the name/logo. And contrary to Jacobs' opinion, I think the vast majority of Americans will/do support UND's position not only on the name/logo, but also for taking the NC$$ to task for the way it's conducted its "ethnic cleansing".

[dagies]

It's disheartening that though Jacobs basically agrees with UND's position but thinks that the smart thing to do is to bend over and take it. If contact the Jacobs and tell him the name of his paper offends me will he change it just to avoid any potentially negative publicity? I highly doubt it. Nor should he.

IMO his perspective on the right way to handle this situation is all wrong.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

It's disheartening that though Jacobs basically agrees with UND's position but thinks that the smart thing to do is to bend over and take it. If contact the Jacobs and tell him the name of his paper offends me will he change it just to avoid any potentially negative publicity? I highly doubt it. Nor should he.

IMO his perspective on the right way to handle this situation is all wrong.

No one should have to change any name/logo just because someone else thinks that it offends them; even if the offended have the majority possition. What is going to happen if some group of people decides that North Dakota is offensive and abusive? Or Lake Sakakawea? Or what if St. Paul (city) offends the none religious??? This has to be stopped!!

[dagies]

No one should have to change any name/logo just because someone else thinks that it offends them; even if the offended have the majority possition. What is going to happen if some group of people decides that North Dakota is offensive and abusive? Or Lake Sakakawea? Or what if St. Paul (city) offends the none religious??? This has to be stopped!!

I don't know that I would go as far as you.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

I don't know that I would go as far as you.

None of the school's logos/nicknames are offensive and abusive. If a city is named for someone, like a saint, or like Bismarck, for a foreign dignitary, does not meen you should have to change it. I am of German decent and I have no problem with N.D.'s capital's name. City's are often named for people influential in their founding (Minot), for people of historical significance (St. Paul, Fargo), or for natural features (like, Grand Forks). School's are often named for local animals. They are also named for local people (Cornhuskers, Cowboys, and Sioux).

[dagies]

None of the school's logos/nicknames are offensive and abusive. If a city is named for someone, like a saint, or like Bismarck, for a foreign dignitary, does not meen you should have to change it. I am of German decent and I have no problem with N.D.'s capital's name. City's are often named for people influential in their founding (Minot), for people of historical significance (St. Paul, Fargo), or for natural features (like, Grand Forks). School's are often named for local animals. They are also named for local people (Cornhuskers, Cowboys, and Sioux).

I understand the point you are making. Your original comment was so general that I think we could come up with offensive nicknames if we tried. However, as for nicknames currently in use, I would agree with your point.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

I understand the point you are making. Your original comment was so general that I think we could come up with offensive nicknames if we tried. However, as for nicknames currently in use, I would agree with your point.

Yea they maybe were to general. Any name/logo is to general, if you don't know the context. Indecent (no, the Fighting Irish logo is not indecent) logos/names should not be alowed. But that is a different discussion. I would not be offended by a school who used the nickname "pirate" and a corresponding logo, even though pirates are not realy something you would want to "honor." I hope the point I am trying to make has made it across clearly. It blow my mind how anyone could be offended by UND using "Sioux" as a nickname/logo. No school is going to purposefully slam their nickname/logo. That is contrary to building fan support. If opposition fans slam it that is not UND's fault.

Edit: And opposition fans are not even slamming the Sioux Indians. They are slaming the opposition "team." I have nothing against gophers, only the team that is nicknamed for them.

[yekcoh]

UND's nickname lawsuit could harm North Dakota

I disagree with so many of Mike Jacobs points in this that I cannot even begin to list them.

[southpaw]

what jacobs is suggetsing and leaning towards, is a lot like what is happening with society in general. there are so many people who are scared of offending anyone. you can't have the fighting sioux nickname because it offends a small group of people. you can't play dodgeball in school because it picks out the weak kids. people think that by removing anything that could cause problems, they fix the problem. that's not how things work.

getting rid of the nickname, or not continuing with the lawsuit isn't going to fix the problems that occur on reservations. those people who are championing the cause to drop the name aren't going to suddenly focus on all the problems plaguing reservations if UND stops or loses the lawsuit. hard work and cooperation is going to make things better between UND and the tribes, not putting your tail between your legs and running the other way.

[dagies]

Yea they maybe were to general. Any name/logo is to general, if you don't know the context. Indecent (no, the Fighting Irish logo is not indecent) logos/names should not be alowed. But that is a different discussion. I would not be offended by a school who used the nickname "pirate" and a corresponding logo, even though pirates are not realy something you would want to "honor." I hope the point I am trying to make has made it across clearly. It blow my mind how anyone could be offended by UND using "Sioux" as a nickname/logo. No school is going to purposefully slam their nickname/logo. That is contrary to building fan support. If opposition fans slam it that is not UND's fault.

Edit: And opposition fans are not even slamming the Sioux Indians. They are slaming the opposition "team." I have nothing against gophers, only the team that is nicknamed for them.

I get it. You're point is clear to me.

[dagies]

what jacobs is suggetsing and leaning towards, is a lot like what is happening with society in general.

I think a decent example of this is what is going on in our office right now. Our payroll/accounting office decided that the term "back office" was offensive. Now, most people knowledgeable about business realize that back office is not a demeaning term, but a descriptive term used to delineate those functions that are not "in front of the customer" like sales, marketing, etc etc.

But our payroll folks have decided it's demeaning (reminds me of the "niggardly" confusion) and so now our VP avoids using the term. A friend of mine is the supv of that department. She's tired of me coming to her and showing her the various ways in which this term is used in normal business communication, and how it is not a derogatory term at all, but helps describe the function. I've tried to explain to her that I'm not trying to be a prick to her or her department, but trying to help them understand that there's nothing derogatory about this term other than connotation they've assigned it themselves.

I don't think just because they've decided that the term is derogatory that we should shun it's appropriate and proper use. That does not send the right message in our society about how to fix things.

Don't feed people. Teach them to feed themselves.

[The Sicatoka]

'dagies': You should get those folks to an audiologist. My guess is they're offended because they're hearing "back oriface."

[Siouxmama]

'dagies': You should get those folks to an audiologist. My guess is they're offended because they're hearing "back oriface."

[dagies]

'dagies': You should get those folks to an audiologist. My guess is they're offended because they're hearing "back oriface."

I don't think they've heard that. Our company is headquartered in Boston, not Asia.

[Siouxman]

I don't think they've heard that. Our company is headquartered in Boston, not Asia.

You're sure that it was the "back office" part and not that it was used in the context of "puck bunnies," or "babes" or some other pseudo term of endearment?

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Back office. Thats Offensive!! That is just nuts! I can't believe (I can though) that somebody is offended by that term!

[Sioux-cia]

'The Back Office'

Dingy bar, big tough palooka standing in front of door marked 'Office'. His palm is greased with a 'C' note and you gain entry to the 'back office'>>a smokey, dim lighted room. There's a bunch of guys around a table playing cards, a pile of Jackson's in the middle of the table, .32 Smith & Wessons at the ready, tired, looking, skinny dames lounging around in the back ground, chain smoking and drinkin' watered down whiskey in dirty glasses, Louis Armstrong playing in the background and a lookout at the back door.

'The Back Office' later tonight on TNT.

[Goon]

Lets not kid ourselves on what Jacobs is. Jacobs is part of the intelgencia that looks down his noise at other and thinks he is smarter than everone one else, but in reality he is the editor at a very average newspaper I hope when the Forum gets done buying the Herald that he is sent on his way. I am sick of his pompus etreme leftist views.

[CDog]

Lets not kid ourselves on what Jacobs is. Jacobs is part of the intelgencia that looks down his noise at other and thinks he is smarter than everone one else, but in reality he is the editor at a very average newspaper I hope when the Forum gets done buying the Herald that he is sent on his way. I am sick of his pompus etreme leftist views.

Best. Post. Ever.

[SiouxPride0303]

Lets not kid ourselves on what Jacobs is. Jacobs is part of the intelgencia that looks down his noise at other and thinks he is smarter than everone one else, but in reality he is the editor at a very average newspaper I hope when the Forum gets done buying the Herald that he is sent on his way. I am sick of his pompus etreme leftist views.

Amen.

[dakotadan]

Lets not kid ourselves on what Jacobs is. Jacobs is part of the intelgencia that looks down his noise at other and thinks he is smarter than everone one else, but in reality he is the editor at a very average newspaper I hope when the Forum gets done buying the Herald that he is sent on his way. I am sick of his pompus etreme leftist views.

This is why the business that I work at has a daily subscription to the Fargo Forum (including weekends, even when we are closed on weekends) and refuses to get a subscription to the herald.

[star2city]

Nick Coleman continues his vendetta against UND:

Why does UND insist on being so hardheaded?

If, despite the general flatness, there is anything resembling a cliff near Grand Forks, N.D., it would be wise to post a cop near the summit. UND appears ready to jump.

...

I have written about this many times over the years, always with the hope of never needing to mention it again. But the University of North Dakota, despite its big brains, is remarkably thick-skulled.

...

It could continue to call its teams Fighting Sioux -- against all common sense and common decency. It just wouldn't be allowed to brandish the name in post-season play. This was as good as UND will get. And better than it deserves.

...

Pandering to people with open wallets? That's how UND got into this mess in the first place. It seems to be an entrenched practice at UND.

One that is ruining the reputation of a public university. And taking it over a cliff.

[1337]

Nick Coleman continues his vendetta against UND:

I was just going to post that. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief.

[dagies]

Nick Coleman continues his vendetta against UND:

Why does UND insist on being so hardheaded?

This guy ruined my breakfast this morning. Here's a particularly tasty quote from his piece:

Unfortunately, the "Fighting Sioux" name is popular with wealthy benefactors, some of whom would wear chicken feather headdresses and whoop it up at cocktail parties if they still could.

Nick Coleman is exactly why UND needs to fight this policy. The idea that an individual or an organization can make up what amounts to bogus charges on their own, then assign that guilt to someone else, and expect that person to bend over and take it is vulgar. Coleman does the exact same thing to UND benefactors. This particular comment is obscene, IMO. I almost never use the word offended, but this fabrication gets me as close to that as anything I can think of.

It's no surprise to me now why Coleman thinks he must finger point to everyone else's perceived racist and offensive beliefs. It takes one to know one.