Murray's Leaving

[DAR]

Hopefully Zajac Stafford and Spirko can continue their magic from the end of last season as I am sure they will start the season as the top line. Aside from Porter and Prpich there will be a lot of new faces and chemistry will need to be developed. I was hoping for the top line above and a second line of Murray Toews and Porter. That would have been a great line as well but no such luck. I think Porter and Toews will be on the second line but who joins them. I still think the checking line will be Kaip Prpich and Fabian with Watkins maybe on that line instead of Fabian on the large ice sheet for his speed. I know he was the fastest skater at the BCHL all star game. I think he is a pretty good defensive player. Forget the offseason, let's drop the puck and see how this all plays out. If Greene signs and Bina cannot play next year our D will have to be the most inexperienced in the history of Sioux hockey. That will be a formula for a lot of growing pains and a difficult time getting out of the West regional and maybe even making the tournament. Radke had better be working his a** off because he will be counted on heavily next year.

[Siouxman]

Haven't seen it commented on directly yet, so I will throw it out there. I will agree that the money played a major part in Brady's decision. But is it just possible that the shoulder injury and the state of officiating (or lack thereof) in the WCHA played some part in the decision? The European game is a more wide open skating style. I have to believe that the Bina injury, the abuse that Zach Parise went through, Brady's shoulder injury and the potential for further injury had to play a part. With his speed and skill, Brady should shine in Switzerland, and likely with a smaller chance of career ending injury. The WCHA simply has to get its officiating act together or it will be a part of any top caliber players decision process.

[DAR]

Haven't seen it commented on directly yet, so I will throw it out there.  I will agree that the money played a major part in Brady's decision.  But is it just possible that the shoulder injury and the state of officiating (or lack thereof) in the WCHA played some part in the decision?  The European game is a more wide open skating style.  I have to believe that the Bina injury, the abuse that Zach Parise went through, Brady's shoulder injury and the potential for further injury had to play a part.  With his speed and skill, Brady should shine in Switzerland, and likely with a smaller chance of career ending injury.  The WCHA simply has to get its officiating act together or it will be a part of any top caliber players decision process.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Europe is one thing but the WCHA is nowhere near as physical as the NHL or the AHL. There are hired goons in both leagues to mix it up and the players are bigger and stronger. I just think that Murray wanted to get paid for playing hockey. I am sure he sees Parise and Bochenski doing well and wants to join them on the "money line"!!

[dagies]

Wouldn't it be absolutely refreshing if one of these players said, " It isn't all about me and money, I've made a commtment to this program and want to stay and help win a national championship." 

Others have pointed out David Hale and Matt Jones. There is a Hockey's Future article linked in the Matt Greene thread. Here's a quote from the article

Hockey's Future on Matt Greene

[The Sicatoka]

I have to believe that the Bina injury, the abuse that Zach Parise went through, Brady's shoulder injury and the potential for further injury had to play a part.

... the NHL or the AHL.  There are hired goons in both leagues to mix it up and the players are bigger and stronger.

I wondered the same thoughts. Murray goes to the Swiss Elite League: That sounds to me like a move that'll get him some nice dollars and relative physical safety (shoulder) compared to the WCHA, AHL, or NHL.

The WCHA simply has to get its officiating act together or it will be a part of any top caliber players decision process.

Yup.

[redwing77]

I thought Curtis left after his junior year. Oh well. So I'm not a historian. :shrugs:

Hopefully my point wasn't clouded by my inability to count how many years Curtis Murphy played for the Sioux.

[Superman0099]

What about sticking it out for 4 year's and actually earning a degree.  Oh yeah I forgot that most of the hockey players rarely go to class anyways.  This was really a surprise to me......a new trend in college hockey........defecting to Europe!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember hearing that LA wanted Brady to pack up the season the first time his shoulder was injured, yet he came back even after a 2nd injury to it. Brady was just as devoted to the Sioux program as any of the other players, but his situation was entirely different than many of them.

With the injury to his shoulder and the amount of times it was re-injured, I see this as an almost impossible offer to turn down for him. As far as earning a degree, paying for college won't be a problem after he nets a couple million from playing in the swiss elite league a few years. His NHL stock will only rise playing in a league with larger ice, and a european style of play. He is a great asset to the swiss teams because he is highly skilled and can be brought in as a non import player (I believe each team is only allowed 3 import players). Playing pro hockey doesn't just mean playing in the NHL. In fact, I don't see how making 400 thousand a year at 20 years odl, living in switzerland and doing what you love every day has any down-side to it.

When looking at all these factors with some other speculations that have been posted here, I completely agree that Brady made the right decision. It's too bad that we never really got to see what he could do, but no doubt if he would have stayed here he would have been an offensive leader and a panzer-like force on the ice as a junior or senior. In any case, I'm glad he chose to UND. Good luck to him in Europe.

[Stack]

Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water this happens.

Gees! Players can't sign with the NHL because of no collective bargaining agreement so you think we're safe until that happens. But NOOOOOO.

Murray decides to go to Europe. How many stinking times is this going to happen. It's like last year with the late signing of Bochenski. Now Murray. Hey with our luck Greene and Smaby sign as son as the NHL gets their head out of their butt if they ever do.

If no one else leaps we will have:

3 seniors (Greene, Prpich and Marvin)

7 juniors (Bina, Stafford, Porter, Smaby, Parise, Fabian, and Foyt) I don't expect Bina back this year.

5 sophomores (Zajak, Spirko, Lamoureux, Radke, and Kaip). We still don't know about Kaip but Radke is expected to play full time this year and be a contributor)

12 freshmen (Toews, Kozek, Watkins, Duncan, Oshie, Chorney, Jones, Miller, Martens, Lee, Alexander, and Walski.

Talk about bottom heavy.

We will need to rely upon 3 freshman defensemen (that assumes Marvin or Foyt will play full time and I'm counting Radke as a freshman due to his lack of playing time last year). We will also need to rely on freshman to make up the majority of two forward lines. That is a lot of freshman.

In 2001-2002 we had 13 freshmen. Our record that year was 16-19-2. We missed the WCHA Final Five and the NCAAs. Here's hoping that times have changed and the incoming freshmen can step right in.

[DAR]

Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water this happens.

Gees! Players can't sign with the NHL because of no collective bargaining agreement so you think we're safe until that happens. But NOOOOOO.

Murray decides to go to Europe. How many stinking times is this going to happen. It's like last year with the late signing of Bochenski. Now Murray. Hey with our luck Greene and Smaby sign as son as the NHL gets their head out of their butt if they ever do.

If no one else leaps we will have:

3 seniors (Greene, Prpich and Marvin)

7 juniors (Bina, Stafford, Porter, Smaby, Parise, Fabian, and Foyt) I don't expect Bina back this year.

5 sophomores (Zajak, Spirko, Lamoureux, Radke, and Kaip). We still don't know about Kaip but Radke is expected to play full time this year and be a contributor)

12 freshmen (Toews, Kozek, Watkins, Duncan, Oshie, Chorney, Jones, Miller, Martens, Lee, Alexander, and Walski.

Talk about bottom heavy.

We will need to rely upon 3 freshman defensemen (that assumes Marvin or Foyt will play full time and I'm counting Radke as a freshman due to his lack of playing time last year). We will also need to rely on freshman to make up the majority of two forward lines. That is a lot of freshman.

In 2001-2002 we had 13 freshmen.  Our record that year was 16-19-2. We missed the WCHA Final Five and the NCAAs. Here's hoping that times have changed and the incoming freshmen can step right in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No offense but the Sioux will go nowhere with Foyt and Marving playing full time at d next year. They just do not have the talent level to be regulars. I too am concerned with the number of freshman on this team. The coaches need to figure out a way to balance out the classes in the future a little bit better. I have said this before but Greene is the key, we can survive the loss of Murray and be there at the end for the regional at the Ralph but it is going to be impossible to replace the leadership and senior presence of Greene on the blue line. Without Greene you'd have Smaby, Lee, Chorney, Radke, Jones and a 6th d-man yet to be determined. There is no way you can win a national championship with that green of a d. I don't care how good the forwards are. Yes Greene takes some bad penalties but his physical presence is something that cannot be overstated. Especially after his performance in the NCAA's, opposing forwards will play more hesitant when he is on the ice.

[Kermit]

In 2001-2002 we had 13 freshmen.

[dagies]

Yes, goaltending was a toughie that year. Kermit, you make a very interesting point about the junior experience comparison then and now.

[The Sicatoka]

Before, the roster was short.

Now, there's a freshman bulge.

This difference I see between this bulge and the bulge of 2001-02 is that this bulge has the potential for many more early departures. That could level out the bulge more than the 2001-02 bulge was leveled out.

Early departures.

This is all going to happen when you can recruit top end talent. The key is that the coaches are replacing top end talent with top end talent.

[NDHockey]

I don't blame Murray for making a choice that ends up helping his wallet. It is easy to rip on a guy for taking a lot of money when you don't walk in his shoes and don't live his life. Murray has plenty of money to go back to school if he decides to.

What I have a difficult time understanding is why some fans seem to expect players to be faithful to a program for four years when we have seen a number of examples of head coaches not showing that same kind of loyalty to the players for all four years. If a coach isn't going to promise a certain amount of scholarship to a player for all four years no matter how the player performs on the ice, why should a player promise four years of hockey to a program? It seems to me a bit odd that a handful of fans expect the player to show complete and total loyalty to the program yet they don't seem to care if a coach lives up to that same standard. Seems like a bit of a double standard from some fans.

[MafiaMan]

Before, the roster was short.

Now, there's a freshman bulge.  

This difference I see between this bulge and the bulge of 2001-02 is that this bulge has the potential for many more early departures. That could level out the bulge more than the 2001-02 bulge was leveled out.

Early departures.

This is all going to happen when you can recruit top end talent. The key is that the coaches are replacing top end talent with top end talent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cue Beavis and Butthead: Heh heh heh...Sicatoka said "bulge."

[DAR]

I don't blame Murray for making a choice that ends up helping his wallet. It is easy to rip on a guy for taking a lot of money when you don't walk in his shoes and don't live his life. Murray has plenty of money to go back to school if he decides to.

What I have a difficult time understanding is why some fans seem to expect players to be faithful to a program for four years when we have seen a number of examples of head coaches not showing that same kind of loyalty to the players for all four years. If a coach isn't going to promise a certain amount of scholarship to a player for all four years no matter how the player performs on the ice, why should a player promise four years of hockey to a program? It seems to me a bit odd that a handful of fans expect the player to show complete and total loyalty to the program yet they don't seem to care if a coach lives up to that same standard. Seems like a bit of a double standard from some fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It just sucks as a fan of the team when a highly regarded player comes in has a good year is injured most of the second year and bolts without realizing his potential in a SIOUX uniform. For me, I could care less how Murray does in Europe. I am sure he is a good kid so good luck in the future but he no longer plays for the Sioux or in North America for that matter so I will not be following his pro career. Sometimes it is a tougher pill to swallow as a fan especially with high hopes for the team next year when something at least to most fans unexpected happens like this. Murray would have been one of the last players I would have thought would have left after last season. Obviously I am not in the inner circle of the team so maybe some saw this coming who are close to the team. I think most fans were quite surprised by this.

[I Ranger]

Alright now that Murray is gone what does everyone think about line combos now. Here is what I have in mind.

Stafford-Zajac-Spiko

Porter-Toews-Duncan

Fabian-Kaip-Prpich

Kozek-Watkins-(Oshie or Miller or Mertens?)

Greene (hopefully)-Jones

Smaby-Radke

Lee-Chorney

Parise-Lammy

The lines I originally had were the same except Murray in place of Duncan and Duncan for Oshie. Either way I still like the line possibilities and if everyone stays I like our D especially if Bina is able to play. If Greene goes, our D corp. is a little scary (and not in a good way).

[Stack]

Let's look at a possible scenario:

Greene leaves.

Bina can't play this year.

Kaip can't play this year.

Everyone else comes back including Zajak, Stafford, and Smaby.

You could have forward lines of (of course I'm just guessing on line combos):

Zajak, Stafford, Spirko

Toews, Porter, Duncan

Watkins, Kozek, Prpich

Kozek, Fabian, Duncan

With extra forwards being Oshie, Miller, and Martens

Defense:

Smaby, Jones

Chorney, Lee

Radke, Marvin

Other defense Foyt and Alexander. I'm including Foyt here because they have no depth at D if Greene goes.

If the freshmen forwards play to their billing I think we should be OK at forward (not great but ok). The defense is scary. Essentially 4 freshmen if you include Radke and a journeyman in Marvin.

Boy do we need Greene to stay and Radke to prove the potential that was seen in him before he arrived.

[Stack]

Alright now that Murray is gone what does everyone think about line combos now. Here is what I have in mind.

Stafford-Zajac-Spiko

[I Ranger]

I was waiting for someone to start it but no one did so I figured we get some conversation going. Anyways you have Duncan and Kozek on two lines.

[Five-HoleFrenzy]

"You could have forward lines of (of course I'm just guessing on line combos):"

Zajak, Stafford, Spirko

Toews, Porter, Duncan

Watkins, Kozek, Prpich

Kozek, Fabian, Duncan

Stack, Just curious but are you intentionally double shifting Kozek and Duncan?

[schmidtdoggydog]

For me, I could care less how Murray does in Europe.  I am sure he is a good kid so good luck in the future but he no longer plays for the Sioux or in North America for that matter so I will not be following his pro career. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you only cheer for and enjoy watching these young men during the years they wear the green and white, but not beyond the date the leave UND?

You don't enjoy or didn't enjoy in the past following the post-UND careers of guys like Tony Hrkac, Bob Joyce, Doug Smail, Russ Romaniuk, Ed Belfour, Travis Roche, Mike Commodore, Zach Parise, Brandon Bochenski, Troy Murray, Dave Tippett, James Patrick, Howard Walker, Garry Valk, Landon Wilson, etc? No one on that list played four years at UND, but they still were Fighting Sioux hockey players and will always be associated with the program.

Although it is frustrating when players leave early, especially those that are fun to watch, I am of the mindset that once a Fighting Sioux, always a Fighting Sioux and I continue to wish all such players well in their pro careers and beyond, quite frankly.

And I certainly cannot begrudge Brady Murray the money he is going to make next season playing a mere forty games. If the lockout continues (and not knowing the particulars of Bo's, ZP's, Hale's, MC's and Roche's minor league contracts), BM could very well be the highest paid Fighting Sioux alum playing hockey next season. More power to him, I say.

[Upper Deck]

I agree DAR. It's very disapointing to see him go, but, as we all know, money talks. Hopefully, our favorite sport doesn't go the way of the high school-college basektball-NBA food chain has by disinegrating three or four years in college. I hope the NHL (or whatever it ends up being) sees the light and doesn't let it become another NBA-like failure. I wish him well in his quest, but it would have been nice to see in green and white. Lets pass the hat to keep Greene . . .

[redwing77]

[Upper Deck]

I enjoyed watching most of these guys "Tony Hrkac, Bob Joyce, Doug Smail, Russ Romaniuk, Ed Belfour, Travis Roche, Mike Commodore, Zach Parise, Brandon Bochenski, Troy Murray, Dave Tippett, James Patrick, Howard Walker, Garry Valk, Landon Wilson, etc" play, but it's not to say that I wouldn't have enjoyed watching them a year or two more in a Sioux sweater.

I just think it's a sad sign of the times when you expect great players to play a college sport a year or two at best. Granted, hockey players are older when they are freshman, but I'd think they'd still benefit by staying three or four years and fulfilling their commitment. That's not reality though, and I wish 'em well.

[AZSIOUX]

I agree DAR.