The UND @ South Dakota State 9/30/2023

[SIOUXFAN97]

4 hours ago, Oxbow6 said:

In his article "5 things you might have missed..." Miller has a hot take that the inadvertent whistle prevented a moment shift. One of the things he didn't mention in his 5 things was SDSU outrushed UND 266-68. Tough to shift momentum when you're constantly getting punched in the face and abused on both sides of the line of scrimmage but if an inadvertent whistle fits your narrative to soften this beat down go for it.

This game was like watching Shanley vs (insert any AAA team) on a Friday night....not competitive at all.

did he mention where we rank now in total offense? context and all?

[SIOUXFAN97]

10 hours ago, wheelsup said:

There were many things that bother me today.. Im really sick to my stomach over the team crapping the bed in another big game.  It was really a terrible game and not even close.  I even talked myself into thinking they could come back in the 2^nd half.. the worsts..

• Complete inability to stop the run.. I don’t get it.  We have been in the MVC now for a few years and we still don’t seem to have adapted/recruited different on the d-line from the big sky.   Its terrible.  If we play like this, NDSU will drop the plow on us again in 2 weeks.
• I don’t get the beginning of the game.  How could we not have been better prepared.  After shitting the bed on defense, How could Danny not have dreamed up a better offensive series for the first series.  Really.. his best idea was that stupid play with Q on down 2?  I don’t think that play works in FM athletics..
• Our scoring sequence in the 2^nd quarter was almost wrecked by somehow trying to turn Isaiah Smith into a power runner.. cmon man!
• I don’t get the offensive series at the start of the 3^rd quarter.  Opportunity to get back into the game.  Offense cant step up.  Where is our vaunted offensive line.  Where is the pride and tiredness of being kicked around
• Im ready to try a new QB.. I think Feeney deserves a chance.  I still think all of the Kaminski talk is delusional.  Tommy would be a decent QB if we had a great defense.  Since we don’t.. we need a more dynamic QB.  Tommy has played 2 games in a row against top teams and has played very poorly.. its time to try something new.  I still believe if Tommy had played our last year of Ketteringham we would have been a better team.

SDSU was just all around better than us.. bigger.. faster.. more athletic.. better coached.  I think Ill see Isaiah Davis in my dreams tnight running through holes in the UND line that even an old guy like me could wander through.   I was hopeful that we would play better than we did on defense and disappointed that we didnt.. I was shocked that our offense was so inept.

as delusional as the "tommy is an elite fcs qb"...it takes some people a little longer than others to come around.

[HoopsFan03]

39 minutes ago, zonadub said:

Freund is not the answer either

Agree 100%. Need completely new blood. New ideas. New energy and hype for football.

[Siouxperman8]

1 hour ago, Tangolou said:

I don't really buy into the "Big Game" theory. If we are honest with ourselves, we have never been the favorite in a "big game". If we had SDSU's roster and lost then I could buy it. To me, it's not that Bubba chokes in big games, it's that Bubba doesn't build a roster to win big games... 

This is 100% true.  We don't/won't win very many recruiting battles for the big knockers that would make a difference. 

I am not sure how we get there either.   It's chicken and egg.  You don't get a lot of those guys unless you're a consistent winner going deep into the playoffs and you and you go deep in playoffs without those top end players. 

Better facilities will help but maybe we need a pied piper type coach to get us over the hump.  I'm a Bubba backer but he's not that kind of coach. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

16 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I'm a Bubba backer

I think the poor record and duration of tenure all suggest it is time to move on. Bubba is not a top tier program builder nor does he have the leadership ability to catapult UND to a championship contender in big games. Recruiting is always key in college FB, better facilities will help, but ultimately it is the coaches who do the recruiting. 

[Tangolou]

11 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

This is 100% true.  We don't/won't win very many recruiting battles for the big knockers that would make a difference. 

I am not sure how we get there either.   It's chicken and egg.  You don't get a lot of those guys unless you're a consistent winner going deep into the playoffs and you and you go deep in playoffs without those top end players. 

Better facilities will help but maybe we need a pied piper type coach to get us over the hump.  I'm a Bubba backer but he's not that kind of coach. 

When Roger Thomas took over the program, UND lost every head to head recruiting battle against NDSU. After a year or two they started winning a few. By the time Lennon took over, they were winning most of the recruiting battles. It can be done, you just need the right people in charge. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 minute ago, Tangolou said:

It can be done, you just need the right people in charge. 

Key point. Recruiting is done by people, so you need the right people (coaches) in charge.

[fightingsioux4life]

8 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Smell the fresh air, look at the facts, time to move on. Bubba is not a top tier program builder nor does he have the leadership ability to catapult UND to a championship contender in big games. Recruiting is always key in college FB, better facilities will help, but ultimately it is the coaches who do the recruiting. 

With Bubba, we'll never go back to being horrible like under Mussman. But we'll also never contend for FCS titles with Bubba. Some people on this forum are fine with that. I am not. Moving up to Division I and then settling for average at best makes no sense. Time to get serious.

[F'n Hawks]

7 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

With Bubba, we'll never go back to being horrible like under Mussman. But we'll also never contend for FCS titles with Bubba. Some people on this forum are fine with that. I am not. Moving up to Division I and then settling for average at best makes no sense. Time to get serious.

I really don’t think there are many that are fine with not contending for an FCS title on this forum. 

[Siouxperman8]

18 minutes ago, Tangolou said:

When Roger Thomas took over the program, UND lost every head to head recruiting battle against NDSU. After a year or two they started winning a few. By the time Lennon took over, they were winning most of the recruiting battles. It can be done, you just need the right people in charge. 

I guess that's kind of what I was saying.  Pied Piper might be the wrong description but Roger was a very dynamic and outgoing coach and the right type of personality for a turnaround for sure. 

I would say that Bubba is closer to Dale's personality.   I base this on my experience with all three of them over the years.  I played with Dale and have a fair amount of exposure to all three of them, seeing them at practices, games and interacting with the public at football alumni and other events.  

[SiouxBoys]

11 minutes ago, F'n Hawks said:

I really don’t think there are many that are fine with not contending for an FCS title on this forum. 

There's not a single person who feels that way but why let that ruin a good narrative...

[LDL]

Regarding the use of the 3-4 defense I think the linemen and linebackers need to be bigger.  a couple of the linebackers need to be in the 245-250 range.  The current roster shows the biggest at 235 (2 guys).  Some of the DE's are at 245, also too small for FCS football.  Also regarding the roster, it lists several players as Graduate, 5th year, and Seniors.  Since covid messed things up, which of these players have eligibility available after this year?  

[UND-FB-FAN]

8 minutes ago, LDL said:

Regarding the use of the 3-4 defense I think the linemen and linebackers need to be bigger.  a couple of the linebackers need to be in the 245-250 range.  The current roster shows the biggest at 235 (2 guys).  Some of the DE's are at 245, also too small for FCS football.  Also regarding the roster, it lists several players as Graduate, 5th year, and Seniors.  Since covid messed things up, which of these players have eligibility available after this year?  

Recruiting is always key in college FB, better facilities will help, but ultimately it is the coaches who do the recruiting. Agree- need bigger, stronger, better players on defense … and offense … and specialists. 

[F'n Hawks]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Recruiting is always key in college FB, better facilities will help, but ultimately it is the coaches who do the recruiting. Agree- need bigger, stronger, better players on defense … and offense … and specialists. 

It was clear yesterday we are behind in every single position group. The coaches have failed in recruitment of the right body types for this defense. Would you say 2015/2016 was the last year we had the size needed?

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, F'n Hawks said:

Would you say 2015/2016 was the last year we had the size needed?

Yeah, and those were Mussman recruits ……

[Tangolou]

I believe that Bubba has done many wonderful things for this program. He has his hands all over these facility improvements. He has engaged former players and donors in a way that wasn't happening prior to his arrival. He has improved the overall skill level of the team. That said, we still are not close to the skill level needed to win a title. We are a good FCS team, we can beat the UNI's and the SIU's of FCS but not the big boys.

[UND-FB-FAN]

30 minutes ago, Tangolou said:

 

I believe that Bubba has done many wonderful things for this program.

 

You’re right, but there are other options that are potentially better for UND at this time.  Need to try a different angle/philosophy to recruiting, scheme, team building, play-calling, strength&conditioning, player motivation, approach to big games, etc. Again, need to try something different, because the current setup is not going to get UND to the top of the mountain. 

[90siouxfan]

3 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

as delusional as the "tommy is an elite fcs qb"...it takes some people a little longer than others to come around.

if "tommy is an elite fcs qb".....   then the top programs in fcs usually have a "should have been fbs qb"....

[Sioux94]

Thinking this has to be the most disappointing game/performance under the Bubba era. It started feeling like we were actually pretty close to being compete with the top teams. Obviously we are not....and it's not close.  Embarrassing performance yesterday from A toZ. 

[F'n Hawks]

20 minutes ago, Sioux94 said:

Thinking this has to be the most disappointing game/performance under the Bubba era. It started feeling like we were actually pretty close to being compete with the top teams. Obviously we are not....and it's not close.  Embarrassing performance yesterday from A toZ. 

Richmond

[ND-fan]

I may be minority but all this talk of blowing up this program and starting new is just dreams of arm chair quarterbacks. I look at our opponent yesterday they went through same things we have been experiencing like us for over 10 years with up and downs but never able to beat top teams. Then all that has come together where they are at the top of the division. Second, COVID  extra year I believe has helped them get to this point if you look at there lines they have a lot of seniors and number six year players which moved depth above normal what FCS program usually have. I believe Und is top 10 team in FCS  but right now Sdsu is at another  level and probably only Montana state is in that level right now.  I believe NDSU has come back to the pack because new transfer rules and because UND, SDSU, and number of other programs have made in roads on recruiting. This important fact it takes years build recruiting network and then also recruiting top talent and what is expected with university in having high expectations in gpa from our student athletes in small division I programs makes it quite a challenge. I can remember now where we had coaching changes that program fell back so far it has taken years to get it back to where it was top program. Und has up graded their offense line this past several years and now they need to up grade their size at defense line and if they stay 3-4 also size and quickness at linebacker. This season now is for Und to win games that are suppose to win. Continue to build resume to make the playoffs and get better as season goes along. Because end of season who knows where everyone is at the end of season with couple key injuries some teams may come back to the pack. The team we played yesterday is very good team and they were playing at home in perfect conditions wanting to make a statement to FCS they are in league of their own.

[wheelsup]

5 hours ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

as delusional as the "tommy is an elite fcs qb"...it takes some people a little longer than others to come around.

Has there been anyone on this forum calling Tommy an elite FCS QB?  In fact most have called out his lack of ability/accuracy in the deep ball and lately his decision making has been questionable which prior was one of his big strengths.  There is a big difference between calling him an elite FCS QB and thinking that he has been generally solid for us and if you replaced him maybe we should at least give Feeney a shot over the true Freshman who we all hope will be very good at some point.  I happen to trust Danny a bit more than somebody biking by memorial stadium every so often.

[SIOUXFAN97]

5 minutes ago, wheelsup said:

Has there been anyone on this forum calling Tommy an elite FCS QB?  In fact most have called out his lack of ability/accuracy in the deep ball and lately his decision making has been questionable which prior was one of his big strengths.  There is a big difference between calling him an elite FCS QB and thinking that he has been generally solid for us and if you replaced him maybe we should at least give Feeney a shot over the true Freshman who we all hope will be very good at some point.  I happen to trust Danny a bit more than somebody biking by memorial stadium every so often.

walter payton award winner nominee........all mvfc qb.....on and on.

the trust people had/have in danny is weakening every day.....

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, ND-fan said:

I may be minority but all this talk of blowing up this program and starting new is just dreams of arm chair quarterbacks. I look at our opponent yesterday they went through same things we have been experiencing like us for over 10 years with up and downs but never able to beat top teams. Then all that has come together where they are at the top of the division. Second, COVID  extra year I believe has helped them get to this point if you look at there lines they have a lot of seniors and number six year players which moved depth above normal what FCS program usually have. I believe Und is top 10 team in FCS  but right now Sdsu is at another  level and probably only Montana state is in that level right now.  I believe NDSU has come back to the pack because new transfer rules and because UND, SDSU, and number of other programs have made in roads on recruiting. This important fact it takes years build recruiting network and then also recruiting top talent and what is expected with university in having high expectations in gpa from our student athletes in small division I programs makes it quite a challenge. I can remember now where we had coaching changes that program fell back so far it has taken years to get it back to where it was top program. Und has up graded their offense line this past several years and now they need to up grade their size at defense line and if they stay 3-4 also size and quickness at linebacker. This season now is for Und to win games that are suppose to win. Continue to build resume to make the playoffs and get better as season goes along. Because end of season who knows where everyone is at the end of season with couple key injuries some teams may come back to the pack. The team we played yesterday is very good team and they were playing at home in perfect conditions wanting to make a statement to FCS they are in league of their own.

Yeah I don’t agree with a lot of this. I do agree it is way too early to expect any coaching changes, or even if Bill Chaves and UND would consider it given the financial ramifications. 
 

The same COVID eligibility rules you mention as helping SDSU also apply to UND. UND has seniors all over the team yet they were completely outmatched vs Boise State and SDSU. Since 2016, in big games based on 10k attendance plus, Bubba’s teams are 12-15. That’s purely bad and should not be acceptable. 
 

Just waiting and seeing how the regional and national FCS dominos fall, without aggressively looking for staff upgrades, is likely how this plays out. But I also think UND would be hoping for just one FCS championship in the next 50 years with that mindset/strategy. We certainly won’t build anything close to what NDSU created or what SDSU is currently experiencing with that mindset / approach. 
 

Treating South Dakota State as if they’re the University of Georgia or University of Alabama is petty justification and really just excuses mediocrity and extends Bubba ball unnecessarily. It’s Brookings SD vs Grand Forks ND. SDSU vs UND. Let’s keep this in perspective.
 

Lastly, UND is not a top 10 FCS team at this point. Open your eyes. Look at the big picture. Never have been under Bubba, and they aren’t now. Have to hope they can finish 8-3 or 7-4, as that is best case scenario, in 2023. Maybe they can improve to become top 10, but they aren’t there right now, and likely won’t be at the end of this season … again. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, wheelsup said:

I happen to trust Danny a bit more than somebody biking by memorial stadium every so often.

What accomplishments to suggest we should crown him? Hoping it happens, but he still has to prove himself. Offense still hasn’t held up against top competition since 2019. There’s doubt, and they’re justified in my opinion.