UND to cut women's hockey

[gundy1124]

59 minutes ago, Kermit's Luck said:

I hate to interrupt the circle jerk in here, but the point you guys are missing is that some people think it’s important that college hockey be available to girls->women. I agree with them. I may not have ten years ago when I was saltier and a little more conservative, but now that I have a slightly different worldview and a baby girl I absolutely think women’s hockey at UND shouldn’t go down without a fight. I’m sick of career administrators making the “tough decisions” while making a buttload of dough and then retiring to Colorado or wherever and not giving two sh*ts about the tough decisions they made.

It’s easy to point to the dollars and cents and say that hockey needed to get the axe – but the opinion of the people wanting to save the program is that a $1.3M deficit can be made up a number of ways, and eliminating a program at what we like to consider the premier hockey school in the country isn’t how they would have done it. Does the women’s team live a little large for the revenue it brings in? Absolutely. Do we need to prioritize Olympians (some foreign) over local players and budgets? No. Could we cut the WH budget by 30% and make some deeper administrative cuts to make up the difference? I think so. Doesn’t take too much senior-level “reorganization” to free up a decent chunk of change to allow UND to provide an opportunity for girls to grow up dreaming of putting on the green and white. 

This website has gotten hard to read for someone with different opinions. There is rarely true discussion; it’s all piling on, name calling, and mildly-to-moderately flawed logic getting passed around between the same 10 usernames. I think the nickname situation just has all UND fans itchin’ for a scrap, regardless of topic! Go Sioux!

Bemidji St. and St. Cloud State Women's hockey combined budget is less than UND's.  If you want to be the Golden Gophers of WH, win and earn it with tradition, you can't spend your way there.  So start there, cutting expenses.  Generating revenue, not going to happen so fund-raise and work on the endowments.  That should have been in any and every letter or movement to save WH, not the PC gibbly-goo activist approach.  And I doubt with 10 additional years in the real word you've become more liberal because of a child.  Anyway, I already told my story about my girls and the WH team, doesn't change the facts that this isn't a social injustice, but a financial disaster.  I am for the cut, but would be open to WH if they could meet certain criteria, like year 1, cut out the international BS and $1 million from their annual deficit.

[MafiaMan]

38 minutes ago, ringneck28 said:

Per Rule 7 of @MafiaMan handbook, there will be no circle jerks unless there is a  Friday win by the Men's Hockey team and they must include a mimosa.  This must happen on the Saturday morning following the Friday win.  Article 3 of this rule is that this event can't happen at the Hoggsbreath, per his trying to get a clarification of this rule and the waitress forth giving a slap of the his face. (Poor Mafiaman just wanted a clarification and left with a pack of ice on his face)  So with this being said, guess we will have to wait until sometime in Oct. to get the Mimosa and talk further of this subject.

Well-said, @ringneck28, but you're quoting Rule 6, not Rule 7.  Rule 7 pertains to the "Traditional Circle of Sticks."  Easy to confuse with that, ahem, "other" circle.  

[fightingsioux4life]

34 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

The problem I have with the two Lamoreaux sisters are that they were not the ones who started the program and they sure as heck didnt care about it when it came time to declare a school. What about Margaret- Ann Hinkley, Marissa Hangsleben, Meghan Mutrie, Anne Girtz, Aynsley Allen, Meaghan Nelson, Meghan Hopps, Amber Hasbargen, and the rest of the players from the 02-03 team? Everyone likes to think that the Lamoreaux sisters started something here at UND when in reality, they didnt. These girls chose to come to UND from the get go, not go somewhere else and then come to UND when things were looking better. The Lamoreaux sisters have always had their own agenda and it shows!

They didn't start it, but they made it relevant the moment they announced they were transferring from Minnesota. Also, they didn't commit to North Dakota right away because our coach was the dysfunctional Shantel "I can't get any Olympians" Rivard. As soon as the coaching change was finally made, they came home.

They gave three years to the women's hockey program and they simply want future generations to have a shot at the same experience they had. That isn't "selfish" or "entitled" in my book. It is too bad it isn't financially possible for us to keep the program going and I do feel for the people losing their jobs over it.

[fightingsioux4life]

33 minutes ago, Siouxperfan7 said:

The Lammy twins are big girls.  I think they can take some criticism.  I doubt they read this message board, so you can be rest assured that their feelings are't being hurt.  

I am sure they don't give a rat's a$$ what the haters on his forum think of them, but that wasn't my point.

[ringneck28]

7 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

Well-said, @ringneck28, but you're quoting Rule 6, not Rule 7.  Rule 7 pertains to the "Traditional Circle of Sticks."  Easy to confuse with that, ahem, "other" circle.  

Oh Darn, I think I have the 1997 rule book before the rules changed in 2012.  All these circles around UND hockey have my head spinning.  Speaking of circles, do we have that October date that we can circle for the start of the season of MENS HOCKEY?

[Theusualsuspects]

Jocelyne and Monique have dedicated their lives to the sport of hockey. They have fully used up their 10,000 hours to perfect their craft. Was rewarded for their hard work with a full scholarship to the University of Minnesota as the UND team was not in a place that it should have been. When Idalski took over they left a promising future (and national championships) to return to the team that they love and help build it to a nationally ranked team. In doing so, drawing high caliber players from all around the world to play at North Dakota. After their graduation, the continued to be involved on and off the ice. One being a volunteer coach and the other the strength and conditioning coach. And now that they have reached the highest level of their field, they should sit quietly by as the team they love and have sacrificed so much is being removed from the landscape of women's hockey? You are right. They do have a personal interest in the program. And are willing to fight for it. Good for them. 

[Kermit's Luck]

1 hour ago, tnt said:

So you're saying 10 years ago you would have felt the same as most of us.  Nice that you can admit you're a hypocrite and are only looking out for number one.  Guess that is what the University is doing as well. 

You might need to look up the definition of hypocrite and/or work on reading comprehension. Cheers broseph.

[Kermit's Luck]

1 hour ago, MafiaMan said:

It sure didn't take long for you to add to the piling on and name calling, did it?  

I hate to break the news to you, but college hockey still IS available to young women.  It's just not available at the University of North Dakota.  

It's an idiom, not piling on or name calling. And your second sentence is what's known as a "straw man argument". Whew, I've lurked on this forum for a decade and should have known what I was in for if I decided to chirp up.

[Kermit's Luck]

1 hour ago, ringneck28 said:

Per Rule 7 of @MafiaMan handbook, there will be no circle jerks unless there is a  Friday win by the Men's Hockey team and they must include a mimosa.  This must happen on the Saturday morning following the Friday win.  Article 3 of this rule is that this event can't happen at the Hoggsbreath, per his trying to get a clarification of this rule and the waitress forth giving a slap of the his face. (Poor Mafiaman just wanted a clarification and left with a pack of ice on his face)  So with this being said, guess we will have to wait until sometime in Oct. to get the Mimosa and talk further of this subject.

This was funny, if maybe a little concerning. Will be wary of anyone drinking mimosas at all future UND hockey games I attend...

[tnt]

22 minutes ago, Kermit's Luck said:

You might need to look up the definition of hypocrite and/or work on reading comprehension. Cheers broseph.

Oh, I think you have a pretense of having virtuous character, but in reality it is about what's good for you at the time.  

[tnt]

26 minutes ago, Kermit's Luck said:

It's an idiom, not piling on or name calling. And your second sentence is what's known as a "straw man argument". Whew, I've lurked on this forum for a decade and should have known what I was in for if I decided to chirp up.

Yeah, like your argument that UND should have women's hockey regardless of it being a black hole is a sound argument on it's own.   

[ringneck28]

30 minutes ago, Kermit's Luck said:

This was funny, if maybe a little concerning. Will be wary of anyone drinking mimosas at all future UND hockey games I attend...

Thanks, I get it that it is tough for some to follow our inside jokes.  In all seriousness, don't think that we are all anti women sports on here.  We all love UND and want what is best for UND.  I don't know if you a resident of ND, but I am and I ask that my tax dollars be spent wisely.  In the case of women's hockey, that wasn't being done.  Sorry for being so blunt, but I call a spade a spade.  If the Olympians think this is a great way to grow the game, then I think USA hockey needs to pay for some of the continual loses.   

[Kermit's Luck]

25 minutes ago, tnt said:

Oh, I think you have a pretense of having virtuous character, but in reality it is about what's good for you at the time.  

It was actually a way of saying "I understand where you're coming from, and may even have thought that way myself at one point" and then presenting my opinion that is obviously different than the majority of people in this thread. That said, my character is virtuous af, no pretenses about it. 

[Kermit's Luck]

20 minutes ago, tnt said:

Yeah, like your argument that UND should have women's hockey regardless of it being a black hole is a sound argument on it's own.   

Refer to my previous comment regarding your reading comprehension. It's also possible you didn't read past the first paragraph in my post, which would also explain it and potentially be an indicator that you got a little more value from your theoretical UND education. 

[Siouxperfan7]

Seriously guys, take your lovers quarrel to PM!!

[Kermit's Luck]

10 minutes ago, ringneck28 said:

Thanks, I get it that it is tough for some to follow our inside jokes.  In all seriousness, don't think that we are all anti women sports on here.  We all love UND and want what is best for UND.  I don't know if you a resident of ND, but I am and I ask that my tax dollars be spent wisely.  In the case of women's hockey, that wasn't being done.  Sorry for being so blunt, but I call a spade a spade.  If the Olympians think this is a great way to grow the game, then I think USA hockey needs to pay for some of the continual loses.   

No question there was fat to be trimmed in the WH budget. I understand wanting to treat them equitably to MH, but at a certain level of expenditure you’ve got to pump the brakes and realize that the women aren’t playing in front of a packed house like the men. Was just down in the guts of the Ralph, and the ladies were living pretty large for a minimally revenue producing college program.

That said, I think there’d be a way to maintain a women’s program at the school with the best and most storied hockey tradition in all of college hockey. The REA is a heckuva facility and it’d be great if they could support a program for aspiring female hockey players – doesn’t have to be a jetsetting Olympic feeder program, just give kids a chance to play some puck before they move on with their lives after graduation and get a professional career that isn’t their collegiate sport. You know, like 99% of every athlete (m/f) at UND outside of MH over the last two decades.

[gundy1124]

8 minutes ago, ringneck28 said:

Thanks, I get it that it is tough for some to follow our inside jokes.  In all seriousness, don't think that we are all anti women sports on here.  We all love UND and want what is best for UND.  I don't know if you a resident of ND, but I am and I ask that my tax dollars be spent wisely.  In the case of women's hockey, that wasn't being done.  Sorry for being so blunt, but I call a spade a spade.  If the Olympians think this is a great way to grow the game, then I think USA hockey needs to pay for some of the continual loses.   

And over the past 4 years, Hungary, Finland, Germany, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark Hockey, too.  It's not that I don't think it's neat and cool to have the European players on the roster, I just assume it's a little more expensive than players from MN and Canada.  (If we had an Irish player my entire lineage would be covered)

Gopher's roster 2016 - MN, Canada, ILL. and even 1 from North Dakota.

[UND-1]

Minnesota has three Canadian's on their team.  The rest are from MN (majority), IL, & ND.  That is how you keep scholarship costs down.

By my math, the UND WH scholarships averaged out to $25,096 each.

By comparison:

MH = $24,981

FB = $20,695

MBB = $23,282

WBB = $19,912

Not millions but they could reduce their scholarship costs by recruiting Minnesota alot harder.  

 

[scpa0305]

On 4/3/2017 at 11:58 AM, teamsioux said:

Smearing UND consistently won't help the fundraiser for the family vacation in the Sioux Shop. 

What fundraiser?  I think I know where this is going (and I'm actually LOL).  But still, what fundraiser?

[scpa0305]

1 hour ago, Theusualsuspects said:

Jocelyne and Monique have dedicated their lives to the sport of hockey. They have fully used up their 10,000 hours to perfect their craft. Was rewarded for their hard work with a full scholarship to the University of Minnesota as the UND team was not in a place that it should have been. When Idalski took over they left a promising future (and national championships) to return to the team that they love and help build it to a nationally ranked team. In doing so, drawing high caliber players from all around the world to play at North Dakota. After their graduation, the continued to be involved on and off the ice. One being a volunteer coach and the other the strength and conditioning coach. And now that they have reached the highest level of their field, they should sit quietly by as the team they love and have sacrificed so much is being removed from the landscape of women's hockey? You are right. They do have a personal interest in the program. And are willing to fight for it. Good for them. 

I actually agree with this. I would be shocked if they didn't fight however.....what solid foundation do they have to stand on.  There is little revenue creation whatsoever.  In full disclosure I never wanted UND to scrap their WH program and still think it's terrible that it happened however, what other solutions did they have?  Did they handle is bad?  Sure.  But unfortunately I havent heard of a solution to balance the shortfall without cutting these expensive programs. 

[Siouxperfan7]

16 minutes ago, scpa0305 said:

What fundraiser?  I think I know where this is going (and I'm actually LOL).  But still, what fundraiser?

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/4222329-lamoureux-sisters-roll-out-apparel-logo-bennett-brien

[90siouxfan]

maybe they could do a calendar?      running, ducking...   seriously, why has this gone on bleeding like this, seems like cuts, downsize earlier would have helped...  I have a daughter in hockey, but I doubt she could play at UND with Idolski and his ego in charge...

[Theusualsuspects]

If this is all about money then cut football. They have a larger budget and larger defecit  than women's hockey......

[Siouxperfan7]

1 minute ago, Theusualsuspects said:

If this is all about money then cut football. They have a larger budget and larger defecit  than women's hockey......

You're right!!  Why didn't anyone else think of that!!  I think you are on too something!! 

[siouxkid12]

5 minutes ago, Theusualsuspects said:

If this is all about money then cut football. They have a larger budget and larger defecit  than women's hockey......

Idk, maybe a little thing called TITLE 9