fightingsioux4life Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 The reason I wanted Jones so bad this year is because I think we will see improvement next year and will have the excuse of "oh look at these youngsters providing solid minutes and scoring" and he will get yet another year. I don't want to be stuck in that rut. Now with the rumors of De Rouen, Tyler, Coleman and even possibly Shields leaving there has got to be something happening where players realize Jones is not a coach they want to play for. That kind of attrition is unacceptable. Not at most schools..... Quote
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Not at most schools..... Unfortunately, UND's attrition is not due to the NBA draft.... Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Interesting how different the standards are at Texas' flagship university versus North Dakota's flagship university. In Texas, a .664 winning percentage and having a winning season in 16 out of 17 years is a fire-able record. In North Dakota, winning games at a 45% clip and turning in 3 winning seasons in 9 years apparently equals job security. Well, they always do say the do things bigger in Texas................. Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Interesting how different the standards are at Texas' flagship university versus North Dakota's flagship university. In Texas, a .664 winning percentage and having a winning season in 16 out of 17 years is a fire-able record. In North Dakota, winning games at a 45% clip and turning in 3 winning seasons in 9 years apparently equals job security. Well, they always do say the do things bigger in Texas................. The standard is absolutely different at UND vs Texas. As it should be. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 The standard is absolutely different at UND vs Texas. As it should be. Oh no you don't.....I knew someone was going to try and pull that. Not on my watch. Of course Texas has different overall expectations vs. North Dakota (or even NDSU for that matter). But the same principles of excellence can be applied wherever you are. For UND, that means being perennial Big Sky conference contenders in both the regular season and in the post-season tournament, which will translate in NCAA tournament appearances and eventually some wins. The Cow College one hour south of here has established expectations like these and it is high time Faison and Kelley start doing the same around here. Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Oh no you don't.....I knew someone was going to try and pull that. Not on my watch. Of course Texas has different overall expectations vs. North Dakota (or even NDSU for that matter). But the same principles of excellence can be applied wherever you are. For UND, that means being perennial Big Sky conference contenders in both the regular season and in the post-season tournament, which will translate in NCAA tournament appearances and eventually some wins. The Cow College one hour south of here has established expectations like these and it is high time Faison and Kelley start doing the same around here. Don't disagree one bit. Do disagree with the standard being yearly deep runs in ncaa tournament which is the standard at Texas. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Don't disagree one bit. Do disagree with the standard being yearly deep runs in ncaa tournament which is the standard at Texas. As I said "Of course Texas has different overall expectations vs. North Dakota (or even NDSU for that matter)." But we aren't even reaching basic mid-major standards, which are very much attainable for UND. Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 How about at minimum, a standard of winning more games than we lose? 1 Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 How about at minimum, a standard of winning more games than we lose? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............sounds good but not sure this MBB programs fan base can handle or is ready for that. Quote
hoopster Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 The standard is absolutely different at UND vs Texas. As it should be. Logical post.... Some folks cannot understand that the flagship school in Texas paid their basketball coach 2.2 million a year Top Ten NCAA D1 Salary... UND pays 100k. A Bottom ten NCAA D1 Salary.... For a TOP TEN salary in the NCAA..... having a sub 500 record in conference play is not good. Barnes conference winning % same... as Jones last 3 years....Again I am right as I have said all along conference play greatly trumps non conference play...no matter how much a handful of uninformed people do not like it Quote
dmksioux Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Logical post.... Some folks cannot understand that the flagship school in Texas paid their basketball coach 2.2 million a year Top Ten NCAA D1 Salary... UND pays 100k. A Bottom ten NCAA D1 Salary.... For a TOP TEN salary in the NCAA..... having a sub 500 record in conference play is not good. Barnes conference winning % same... as Jones last 3 years....Again I am right as I have said all along conference play greatly trumps non conference play...no matter how much a handful of uninformed people do not like it So maybe you can answer why UND, a DI flagship school, is paying its coach the lowest or close to the lowest salary in all of DI? Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Logical post.... Some folks cannot understand that the flagship school in Texas paid their basketball coach 2.2 million a year Top Ten NCAA D1 Salary... UND pays 100k. A Bottom ten NCAA D1 Salary.... For a TOP TEN salary in the NCAA..... having a sub 500 record in conference play is not good. Barnes conference winning % same... as Jones last 3 years....Again I am right as I have said all along conference play greatly trumps non conference play...no matter how much a handful of uninformed people do not like it Yet Barnes is fired, and Jones gets to continue "coaching" to the dismay of anyone who knows anything about basketball. Thanks for proving our point. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Yet Barnes is fired, and Jones gets to continue "coaching" to the dismay of anyone who knows anything about basketball. Thanks for proving our point. Maybe the fact that Texas has been at the same DI level for many years, including the entire 17 years that Barnes was the coach might make the situation different. And the fact that the performance of the program at Texas has declined the last several years might also factor in. Barnes took the Longhorns to the Sweet Sixteen 5 times during his first 10 years, including 3 trips to the Elite Eight and once to the Final Four. They haven't made it to the Sweet Sixteen since 2008. 2008 was also the last year they won a regular season conference title. That might be a little different than a program that has only been a full Division 1 program for 3 years. Not to mention the fact that the Texas athletic department in one of the richest in college athletics. Not exactly comparing apples to apples situations. 1 Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Maybe the fact that Texas has been at the same DI level for many years, including the entire 17 years that Barnes was the coach might make the situation different. And the fact that the performance of the program at Texas has declined the last several years might also factor in. Barnes took the Longhorns to the Sweet Sixteen 5 times during his first 10 years, including 3 trips to the Elite Eight and once to the Final Four. They haven't made it to the Sweet Sixteen since 2008. 2008 was also the last year they won a regular season conference title. That might be a little different than a program that has only been a full Division 1 program for 3 years. Not to mention the fact that the Texas athletic department in one of the richest in college athletics. Not exactly comparing apples to apples situations. Certainly. Not disagreeing with that at all. The problem here is the lame brain contract extension Jones was given after underperforming with an extremely talented group a couple years ago. Hoopster seems to think he is "right" about Jones being a good coach since he's still here. In reality, the only reason Jones is still here is the inexcusable contract extension he was given, and the athletic department is unwilling and unable to buy it out. Quote
UND92,96 Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Just a guess, but I suspect you would have a difficult time finding another division I coach, or division II for that matter, with as many as nine years at his current job without so much as a single 20-win season to his credit. 2 Quote
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Logical post.... Some folks cannot understand that the flagship school in Texas paid their basketball coach 2.2 million a year Top Ten NCAA D1 Salary... UND pays 100k. A Bottom ten NCAA D1 Salary.... For a TOP TEN salary in the NCAA..... having a sub 500 record in conference play is not good. Barnes conference winning % same... as Jones last 3 years....Again I am right as I have said all along conference play greatly trumps non conference play...no matter how much a handful of uninformed people do not like itThe fact UND MBB is led by a coach only worth 100K is the problem. UND needs to up their salary and find an actual winner for the HC position. As for conference record, you have to have a decent sample size. Barnes had that with 17 years of coaching; Jones only has had 3 seasons as HC in the BSC. Nevertheless, in those three seasons, Jones has a losing conference record, and I'm not necessarily advocating a 4th BSC season for Jones and UND. Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Just a guess, but I suspect you would have a difficult time finding another division I coach, or division II for that matter, with as many as nine years at his current job without so much as a single 20-win season to his credit. Probably wouldn't have to look to far outside of our league to find that since 20 win seasons are rare in BSC. I doubt Verlin has had a 20. Katz? Maybe this year. Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Probably wouldn't have to look to far outside of our league to find that since 20 win seasons are rare in BSC. I doubt Verlin has had a 20. Katz? Maybe this year. Four Big Sky teams won 20 games this season. Quote
UNDBIZ Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Four Big Sky teams won 20 games this season. Ouch. Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 So maybe you can answer why UND, a DI flagship school, is paying its coach the lowest or close to the lowest salary in all of DI? An argument could be made that North Dakota is grossly overpaying for the results that have been produced over the past 9 seasons. Quote
UND92,96 Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Probably wouldn't have to look to far outside of our league to find that since 20 win seasons are rare in BSC. I doubt Verlin has had a 20. Katz? Maybe this year. Keep in mind that Jones and Rahe are the only Big Sky coaches with nine or more years at their current schools. Katz achieved a 20-win season this year, along with three other coaches in the Big Sky. Verlin only has seven years at Idaho. We'll have to see whether he can last two more if he doesn't reach that threshold. Quote
ArtVandalay Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Four Big Sky teams won 20 games this season. Correct. 4/12. Ninth place team in Big 12 had 18. Conference record is standard in Big Sky. Quote
UND92,96 Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Correct. 4/12. Ninth place team in Big 12 had 18. Conference record is standard in Big Sky. So four coaches achieved something this year that Jones never has. What does that say about the caliber of the Big Sky during the two years Jones actually had a decent conference record, with some of the most experienced teams in the country? 1 Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Correct. 4/12. Ninth place team in Big 12 had 18. Conference record is standard in Big Sky. Not sure what the Big 12 has to do with it. You said 20 win seasons are rare in the Big Sky. There have been at least two 20 win teams in 6 of the last 7 seasons. 7 different schools have hit 20 wins in the last 7 years. UND hasn't won 20 games in over a decade. They don't give out trophies for getting 20 wins, but it is a nice round number that, for a low major would indicate a quality season. Winning percentage is a far better measure of success over a long period of time in my opinion. .455 over 9 years is pretty weak for any flagship program that has a high-end facility in one of the country's weakest DI basketball leagues. 1 Quote
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Not sure what the Big 12 has to do with it. You said 20 win seasons are rare in the Big Sky. There have been at least two 20 win teams in 6 of the last 7 seasons. 7 different schools have hit 20 wins in the last 7 years. UND hasn't won 20 games in over a decade. They don't give out trophies for getting 20 wins, but it is a nice round number that, for a low major would indicate a quality season. Winning percentage is a far better measure of success over a long period of time in my opinion. .455 over 9 years is pretty weak for any flagship program that has a high-end facility in one of the country's weakest DI basketball leagues. Where's the high-end facility? The Betty is nice, but its not a "high-end" facility. Go ahead and shoot me down now! Quote
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