UNDBIZ Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Weber St fan on UND... Re: North Dakota by catscratched » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:32 am The Cats have begun their journey to the tundra up north. The trip involves an airplane, a bus ride, a ferry, and a donkey ride on the final leg to Grand Forks. We get there about 5 minutes before game time and hope that the kids are aggravated enough about the trek to go out and kick some 'no name' butt. Sound like the kind of place where recruits are begging to play catscratched Big Sky 2nd Team Posts: 112 Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:44 pm I am a fan of: Weber State Big Sky school I dislike most:Idaho We get it, you hate North Dakota. What's keeping you here? Also, it's 40 miles from the Salt Lake City airport to Ogden..... glass houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The problem is, there is about 100 different ways to define "getting it done". OOC and overall record? Very disappointing and not a single person has claimed it is acceptable. Conference regular season and tournament? Pretty encouraging the last two years. Highest finish for a newcomer to the league ever. Finished 3rd and 2nd in his first two years in the standings and conference tournament. This year, not so much but that isn't a total shock with what was lost. The GWC was what it was, but Jones did win the conference tournament twice. Recruiting? Talent level appears to be on the rise. For those that care, he has beat NDSU in the two most recent head to head battles that I'm aware of on players both teams wanted (Hooker and Shanks) Off the court stuff? Haven't heard much of anything about them getting in trouble. Had one or two academic eligibility issues and team GPA could probably be higher but players aren't transferring out left and right either. That's just a handful of the subjective ways it can be measured. People can complain all they want, but it barring some major off the court issues, I don't see a scenario where he isn't the head coach next year. That being said it is likely his make or break year to show whether or not he'll coach the final year on his contract or see any kind of extension. Very well said. The program has seen its fair share of ups and downs, to be sure. I think Jones has done some very good things here. The first two seasons in the Big Sky are exactly what I expect from this program, and I was very pleased and impressed with their conference play. I think he is a very good recruiter, with examples going all the way back to Emmanuel Little. One of the most impressive things about Jones' teams over the years is that they usually are playing their best basketball by far near the end of the season, and that trend goes all the way back to the NCC days. But here is where I am at currently with this program. -The inconsistency has gotten to the point of being almost intolerable for me. Things like having a more than respectable showing against a top 25 team like UNI, to being run out of a neutral court gym by UTPA. Blowing an 18 point lead at SDSU. Things like this make a fan weary. As I said, Jones normally has his team playing well at the end of the season, which of course is great. But I want to see good basketball all year long, not just the last 5 or 6 weeks of the season. -I wonder if the program has hit its ceiling under Jones. People like to cite how UND won more games than any other new member of the Big Sky has in 2012-13. People often don't point out that in that year the number of conference games played increased by 25% so there were many more opportunities to get wins. In 3 seasons in the Big Sky, we are 1-12 against Weber and Montana. And if ever there was a year that Weber was ripe for the picking it was this year. We need to be better then 1-12 against those two programs if we want to be considered one of the top Big Sky programs, which I think we should be. -The expectations for this program are not where they should be, IMO. I admit I may be overly optimistic, but I don't thing UND should ever be picked 9th in a conference pre-season poll. The truth is, the Big Sky is one of the weakest DI basketball conferences in the country. That means there are probably more than a few teams in it that just aren't very good, in fact they could be considered pretty bad. When you are picked 9th (and now actually sitting at 10th) that means your are in fact one of the ones that are pretty bad. There are a couple of NSIC teams that would probably have their way with several of the Big Sky schools, including us. I find this unacceptable. Whether or not Jones is the root cause of any or all of this is up for debate. If he can turn it around that's awesome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopster Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You are constantly bringing up bad traits of the UND BB job (weather, recruiting, video board). Makes me wonder: why does Jones stay here if it is such an uphill battle in so many phases? He has nine year experience, why doesn't he move on to a better job with better weather and facilities. He would be able to use his full arsenal of coaching abilities once he wasn't held back by the albatross that is UND basketball. A big fake who trumps up one weber st yahoo who thinks UND only runs one set, but whines when another weber hack points out the harshness of UND climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 A big fake who trumps up one weber st yahoo who thinks UND only runs one set, but whines when another weber hack points out the harshness of UND climate. Anyway, if the climate is so harsh for you and Coach Jones, why doesn't he move on? Your #1 argument is climate but there is nothing that can be done about it. You are basically admitting that the ceiling has been reached and due to weather, that things will not get much better. Way to instill confidence in the fan base. Maybe they should get a new coach that wants to take on the daunting task of recruiting a player to such a harsh climate. I don't know how in the hell Saul, Tim, and Scott pulled off that miracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopster Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Anyway, if the climate is so harsh for you and Coach Jones, why doesn't he move on? Your #1 argument is climate but there is nothing that can be done about it. You are basically admitting that the ceiling has been reached and due to weather, that things will not get much better. Way to instill confidence in the fan base. Maybe they should get a new coach that wants to take on the daunting task of recruiting a player to such a harsh climate. I don't know how in the hell Saul, Tim, and Scott pulled off that mira NDSU trolls like you want to get rid of Jones so UND goes from beinga better Big Sky team overall to bottom feeder teams like Idaho st, Montana St. So Utah ...sicko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 FFR. Fan Forum Rage. Like flippin a guy off in your car right before you exit the freeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDvince97-01 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 NDSU trolls like you want to get rid of Jones so UND goes from beinga better Big Sky team overall to bottom feeder teams like Idaho st, Montana St. So Utah ...sicko I'm looking around and over my shoulders for Ashton Kutcher to pop out of nowhere right now.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I live in the F-M area.......there are at least 4 BB coaches down here I'd take over Jones in a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Rich Glas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Rich Glas. There's one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 There's one...... Walthall Richman Glas Manson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Walthall Richman Glas Manson But would they ever move to Grand Forks (again)? I'd assume not, seeing as it is a complete h*ll-hole which is impossible to recruit talented bballers to...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Walthall Richman Glas Manson Yes...yes...yes. Manson would have been my 5th. Jacobson at Shanley was the 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Walthall Richman Glas Manson My personal takes: -Would be likely be one of the top candidates to replace Jones if he was let go. Has done very good things at MSU. -Early returns are impressive, has them playing an ideal system for their personnel right now. Remains to be seen if he's going to run his team into the ground and if they'll have anything left by the end of the season with the 7 man rotation they've been using (almost exactly what FU fans ripped on Nagy for at SDSU a few years ago) and what he'll be able to do without a POY senior point guard who plays 39 minutes a game. So far seems to be a very good hire for Fargo U. -Very much like the guy and respect what he accomplished at UND but he hasn't exactly torn up the the MIAC outside of 1 nice year. -Don't know much about him, have seen him coach a couple times I guess. Coaching high school and running a D-1 program are light years different, but not sure exactly what the comparison is based on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Was Manson on a D-1 staff and I didn't realize it? Or a lower division head coach? I could not support a high school coach lacking those basic things on the resume for this job. That isn't setting him or the program for success. Too much would be easily second guessed unless the wins came fast and furious. He wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Was Manson on a D-1 staff and I didn't realize it? Or a lower division head coach? I could not support a high school coach lacking those basic things on the resume for this job. That isn't setting him or the program for success. Too much would be easily second guessed unless the wins came fast and furious. He wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt. Oxbow said he could name 4 so I played along for fun and named 4. Not that big of a deal and really didnt need to be broken down. Obviously would not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Was Manson on a D-1 staff and I didn't realize it? Or a lower division head coach? I could not support a high school coach lacking those basic things on the resume for this job. That isn't setting him or the program for success. Too much would be easily second guessed unless the wins came fast and furious. He wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt. I think the two high school coaches (Jacobson and Manson) are just a joke in this context, and if they aren't, they should be. You just don't hire high school coaches as a DI college coach. I'd much rather have Brian Jones and the current course than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My feeling is that the best argument of all for Jones staying at least one more year is that hopefully Faison will have announced his retirement by then. Let the next a.d. judge Jones' overall body of work and if necessary, make a change. While Faison deserves credit for several things he's accomplished as a.d., does anybody really want to watch the infamous "process", or at least his interpretation of it, play out again? I don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My feeling is that the best argument of all for Jones staying at least one more year is that hopefully Faison will have announced his retirement by then. Let the next a.d. judge Jones' overall body of work and if necessary, make a change. While Faison deserves credit for several things he's accomplished as a.d., does anybody really want to watch the infamous "process", or at least his interpretation of it, play out again? I don't. Very true. Faison's overall enthusiasm, and perhaps, ambition of moving UND up in the DI ranks is a bit lethargic at his near-retirement age. I do hope for him to hang it up soon, but then a suitable, energetic replacement must follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oxbow said he could name 4 so I played along for fun and named 4. Not that big of a deal and really didnt need to be broken down. Obviously would not happen. Sorry- I missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-1 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 My feeling is that the best argument of all for Jones staying at least one more year is that hopefully Faison will have announced his retirement by then. Let the next a.d. judge Jones' overall body of work and if necessary, make a change. While Faison deserves credit for several things he's accomplished as a.d., does anybody really want to watch the infamous "process", or at least his interpretation of it, play out again? I don't. Have to agree with you on the "process" that Faison supposedly uses. I know with 98% certainty that he did not have his own "short list" of names ready to go when he fired Mussman. He started completely from scratch and the proceeded to take 38 days to do it. Typically, an AD will have a list of names written down if/when they start to think they going to make a coaching change. He had nothing. He also could have asked to speed up the timeline to hire the coach but he didn't because there was no reason to, nothing was ready anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Have to agree with you on the "process" that Faison supposedly uses. I know with 98% certainty that he did not have his own "short list" of names ready to go when he fired Mussman. He started completely from scratch and the proceeded to take 38 days to do it. Typically, an AD will have a list of names written down if/when they start to think they going to make a coaching change. He had nothing. He also could have asked to speed up the timeline to hire the coach but he didn't because there was no reason to, nothing was ready anyway. Faison had no plan to fire Mussman until the alumni emails/concerns came raining in and some money was raised late in the process in order to buy out Mussman's contract. It's for this reason that I don't think Jones will be fired under Faison. Either Jones's contract expires in 2017 or a new AD goes a new direction in basketball before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niouxsiouxfan Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think the two high school coaches (Jacobson and Manson) are just a joke in this context, and if they aren't, they should be. ***You just don't hire high school coaches as a DI college coach.*** I'd much rather have Brian Jones and the current course than that. Unless you are UNLV football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Unless you are UNLV football Yes, that is the case. Fortunately for that new HC he has OC Barney Cotton (long-time Nebraska assistant) and DC Kent Baer (former Colorado DC). With that, it will still be tough for UNLV to get on top of the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakhoops Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Have to agree with you on the "process" that Faison supposedly uses. I know with 98% certainty that he did not have his own "short list" of names ready to go when he fired Mussman. He started completely from scratch and the proceeded to take 38 days to do it. Typically, an AD will have a list of names written down if/when they start to think they going to make a coaching change. He had nothing. He also could have asked to speed up the timeline to hire the coach but he didn't because there was no reason to, nothing was ready anyway. If this is the case it might be reason alone to not fire Jones....who knows what UND will get. UND was lucky Bubba really wanted the job. Is there a coach out there like that for MBB? The head football coach and men's basketball coach positions are not ones you just put online and hope good applicants come in, you go out and go after the ones you want. Any good AD should have a list of 3-4 candidates in FB, MBB, WBB, and at some schools (UND included) Men's Hockey and Baseball. Don't forget the open records requests to go along with the long hiring process. That alone will probably keep good candidates from applying which probably happened with football. Do you think a guy like Chad Wathall will apply if he doesn't think he will get the job when the local paper will publish his name and his current employer will see that? He is a guy Faison would probably have to reach out to and if he doesn't he probably won't come here because he won't apply. It would've been interesting to see how NDSU would've handled their coaching searches for FB and MBB had they hired from outside current employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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