Coach Jones?

[UNDBIZ]

14 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

The Summit is a much tougher MBB league. I don't see us having much success next year. Maybe the WBB team will, but not MBB.

Meh.

[nodak651]

37 minutes ago, homer said:

We just made the NCAA tournament last year.  We have not been losing before this season.  

Admittedly I am not a Jones fan.  However, there isn’t $650K sitting in the athletic budget for basketball.   You tell me where you will find it and I’m on board with letting him go unless he somehow finds some discipline in his coaching   

 

Also, there is an argument to be made that the (hypothetical)  buyout money would be better spent on bringing d1 teams in for home games, summer scholarships, increased salary pool for assistants, flights instead of busses, etc.. If I was the new AD, I would wait until there is a year left in Jones contract to buy him out, despite how much I think his contract shouldn't have been extended in the first place.  This program needs a higher budget more than a new coach, despite how badly it needs a new coach.

[jdub27]

11 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Also, there is an argument to be made that the (hypothetical)  buyout money would be better spent on bringing d1 teams in for home games, summer scholarships, increased salary pool for assistants, flights instead of busses, etc.. If I was the new AD, I would wait until there is a year left in Jones contract to buy him out, despite how much I think his contract shouldn't have been extended in the first place.  This program needs a higher budget more than a new coach, despite how badly it needs a new coach.

But money grows on trees. Why not do everything? Just think, if just 500 people donate only $10,000, we'd have an extra $5 million! See how simple it is??

[fightingsioux4life]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

But money grows on trees. Why not do everything? Just think, if just 500 people donate only $10,000, we'd have an extra $5 million! See how simple it is??

Make smart remarks all you want, but you are the one that scolds people for complaining on a message board and not proposing any potential solutions. Then I propose a solution and you respond with smart-mouthed comments like this one.

Nodak651 has a point about bringing in more D1 teams for non-conference home games; that would help the program immensely. And I think his suggestion to wait until Jones has one year left on his contract is a good one. But since we are flat broke all the time, I guess that is a pipe dream too.

[fightingsioux4life]

35 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

Meh.

I don't like the Summit for a variety of reasons, but their MBB is much better than the Big Sky Conference.

[jdub27]

23 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Make smart remarks all you want, but you are the one that scolds people for complaining on a message board and not proposing any potential solutions. Then I propose a solution and you respond with smart-mouthed comments like this one.

Nodak651 has a point about bringing in more D1 teams for non-conference home games; that would help the program immensely. And I think his suggestion to wait until Jones has one year left on his contract is a good one. But since we are flat broke all the time, I guess that is a pipe dream too.

Proposing X number of people donate X dollars is not a potential solution, it's what you'd call a pipe dream. And when you aren't talking in hyperbole all the time, there is actually difference between being flat broke and working within a budget. Literally every single thing in the world doesn't have to be on one end of the spectrum, good or bad. Apparently the color gray doesn't exist around here.

And for the record, I think his solution is the most logical scenario, Jones isn't getting bought out any time soon.

 

23 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I don't like the Summit for a variety of reasons, but their MBB is much better than the Big Sky Conference.

Much better is a pretty big stretch. Seedings have historically been very close, which is really the only thing that matters for the two. However the Summit previously had more flexibility to schedule OOC games which has helped inflate their RPI.

[fightingsioux4life]

19 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Proposing X number of people donate X dollars is not a potential solution, it's what you'd call a pipe dream. And when you aren't talking in hyperbole all the time, there is actually difference between being flat broke and working within a budget. Literally every single thing in the world doesn't have to be on one end of the spectrum, good or bad. Apparently the color gray doesn't exist around here.

And for the record, I think his solution is the most logical scenario, Jones isn't getting bought out any time soon.

 

Much better is a pretty big stretch. Seedings have historically been very close, which is really the only thing that matters for the two. However the Summit previously had more flexibility to schedule OOC games which has helped inflate their RPI.

Then how did we find the cash to buy out Mussman? It sure didn't come out of state appropriated funds. Neither did that Indoor Practice Facility that is now in use.

I was exaggerating with the term "flat broke" to make a point. Every time somebody points out a weakness in our athletic programs, they are told (rather patronizingly) that "we can't afford to do anything about it". In that case, we had better step up the private fundraising. But according to you and others, that's a "pipe dream". So what should we do instead?

[southpaw]

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Make smart remarks all you want, but you are the one that scolds people for complaining on a message board and not proposing any potential solutions. Then I propose a solution and you respond with smart-mouthed comments like this one.

Nodak651 has a point about bringing in more D1 teams for non-conference home games; that would help the program immensely. And I think his suggestion to wait until Jones has one year left on his contract is a good one. But since we are flat broke all the time, I guess that is a pipe dream too.

You seem really good at spending other people's money.  I assume you won't be one of those 200,000 people that donates $1,000 dollars so we have $200 million dollar budget?

[fightingsioux4life]

11 minutes ago, southpaw said:

You seem really good at spending other people's money.  I assume you won't be one of those 200,000 people that donates $1,000 dollars so we have $200 million dollar budget?

So I have an obligation to sit down and shut up? Sorry, not happening. This is a fan forum. This is what we do on fan forums. Don't like it, don't read it.

The fact is, almost everything is funded using "other people's money". Mussman's buyout. The IPF. The Alerus Center. REA. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with intercollegiate athletics in general.

If you think everything is just fine and dandy the way it is, then just come out and say so. But don't expect me to rubber-stamp that viewpoint as my own.

And if you have better ideas on how to improve our programs, please put them out there like I have. Or are you afraid of doing so?

[jdub27]

42 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Then how did we find the cash to buy out Mussman? It sure didn't come out of state appropriated funds. Neither did that Indoor Practice Facility that is now in use.

I was exaggerating with the term "flat broke" to make a point. Every time somebody points out a weakness in our athletic programs, they are told (rather patronizingly) that "we can't afford to do anything about it". In that case, we had better step up the private fundraising. But according to you and others, that's a "pipe dream". So what should we do instead?

You're trying to compare a program that has an alumni base that is probably 10x the size if not more and draws at least 5x more fans, plus you're also talking about an amount that is 4-5x bigger. On top of that, the MBB was just in the big dance last season and is a whopping 2 games into their conference schedule, yet here you are raising funds for a buyout. I'm not defending performance year to date, though to claim its been all bad is putting your head in the sand. Be realistic for a change, two starters graduated, including one of, if not the best player in program history. On top of that 3 of the top 8 guys by minutes played left unexpectedly and they all happened to play a similar position. So now you're down 5 out of the 8 guys who averaged double digit minutes last season and have to replace about 60% of the minutes played with almost half of those being unexpected departures. Huge surprise the team is struggling to find some consistency. Is it frustrating to watch, especially recently? Of course. Is it unexpected? Not if you're paying any attention at all.

It seems there can't be any discussion on here without exaggeration, hyperbole to the extreme or some sort of rant. Every time someone tries to discuss or give a reason for the weaknesses being pointed out, the answer is they are accepting mediocrity or don't care. Like I said, to some there is no gray area or logical explanations, it is only best and worst case scenarios. 

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

You're trying to compare a program that has an alumni base that is probably 10x the size if not more and draws at least 5x more fans, plus you're also talking about an amount that is 4-5x bigger. On top of that, the MBB was just in the big dance last season and is a whopping 2 games into their conference schedule, yet here you are raising funds for a buyout. I'm not defending performance year to date, though to claim its been all bad is putting your head in the sand. Be realistic for a change, two starters graduated, including one of, if not the best player in program history. On top of that 3 of the top 8 guys by minutes played left unexpectedly and they all happened to play a similar position. So now you're down 5 out of the 8 guys who averaged double digit minutes last season and have to replace about 60% of the minutes played with almost half of those being unexpected departures. Huge surprise the team is struggling to find some consistency. Is it frustrating to watch, especially recently? Of course. Is it unexpected? Not if you're paying any attention at all.

It seems there can't be any discussion on here without exaggeration, hyperbole to the extreme or some sort of rant. Every time someone tries to discuss or give a reason for the weaknesses being pointed out, the answer is they are accepting mediocrity or don't care. Like I said, to some there is no gray area or logical explanations, it is only best and worst case scenarios. 

So nothing is on Jones now? He's been here longer than most every other coach on campus. Their performances so far this season are abysmal. Even if they do improve some, I don't think it will be enough to punch another ticket to March Madness. And I hope I am wrong about all that. I will gladly come on here and admit it if they have a successful season.

[SWSiouxMN]

I was hoping that this thread wouldn't be resurrected this season.

I think there are some things that Jones can change in how he runs his program.  His body of work on JUCO transfers is not very good, way more misses than hits and as of right now it is the former.  He does a lot better job in getting transfers from other teams/grad transfers so unless its one of those, I would like to see them go away from JUCOs.

Which leads me to my other point:  They have to get back into Minnesota for recruits. I really would have thought that more in-roads would have been made with the success of Q and Geno, but I guess not.  I haven't been too impressed with the Iowa kids (from HS, not transfers from other schools) that have been brought up here, outside of Seales. I'm not saying that they totally need to go away from Iowa but there needs to be more effort in MN. 

If the season does go off the rails similar to 14-15, then I expect a similar response by the coaching staff:  an overhaul of the roster. It paid off when Jones did it with an BSC title and NCAA appearance two years later.  

Unless an NCAA violation occurs (which we would have bigger issues to deal with) Jones will be here for the next two.  After that, its anyone's guess. 

Lastly:  Jones is not Mussman.  It is an unfair comparison, Jones is/was better head coach that Mussman ever was.  I'd argue a better comparison was with Idalski. 

[jdub27]

7 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

So nothing is on Jones now? He's been here longer than most every other coach on campus. Their performances so far this season are abysmal. Even if they do improve some, I don't think it will be enough to punch another ticket to March Madness. And I hope I am wrong about all that. I will gladly come on here and admit it if they have a successful season.

Nowhere did I say that Jones gets a free ride on his team but I did point out why it isn't surprising to see the team struggle. But true to form, that isn't allowed, it is simply somehow twisted into a free pass for the coach.

I expected a letdown against Idaho of Christmas break and I'm not surprised they struggled with EWU's length, however even with that, UND performed below my expectations. The Montana swing in the next two games isn't going to be much easier, hoping the team can snap out of the funk they are in and figure out how to score against a 2-3 zone.

[jdub27]

9 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

I was hoping that this thread wouldn't be resurrected this season.

I think there are some things that Jones can change in how he runs his program.  His body of work on JUCO transfers is not very good, way more misses than hits and as of right now it is the former.  He does a lot better job in getting transfers from other teams/grad transfers so unless its one of those, I would like to see them go away from JUCOs.

Which leads me to my other point:  They have to get back into Minnesota for recruits. I really would have thought that more in-roads would have been made with the success of Q and Geno, but I guess not.  I haven't been too impressed with the Iowa kids (from HS, not transfers from other schools) that have been brought up here, outside of Seales. I'm not saying that they totally need to go away from Iowa but 

If the season does go off the rails similar to 14-15, then I expect a similar response by the coaching staff:  an overhaul of the roster. It paid off when Jones did it with an BSC title and NCAA appearance two years later.  

Unless an NCAA violation occurs (which we would have bigger issues to deal with) Jones will be here for the next two.  After that, its anyone's guess. 

Lastly:  Jones is not Mussman.  It is an unfair comparison, Jones is/was better head coach that Mussman ever was.  I'd argue a better comparison was with Idalski. 

Good post.

They lost a big part of their MN connection when Ahelegbe went to USD. I thought Jones would have developed some connections there but apparently not quite enough. With the ties him and Horner have in Iowa, it isn't a surprise why they hit it so hard. Looking at the offers, they do have a couple out to a handful of kids in MN and IL along with IA, MO, NE, LA, AZ so they are at least looking other places. Just need to convince them to sign.

[southpaw]

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

So nothing is on Jones now? He's been here longer than most every other coach on campus. Their performances so far this season are abysmal. Even if they do improve some, I don't think it will be enough to punch another ticket to March Madness. And I hope I am wrong about all that. I will gladly come on here and admit it if they have a successful season.

And six months later, team up with Darryl to bring up this same thread if they go 0-2 in conference play.

[SWSiouxMN]

We just don't have the proper replacements right now for Shanks and Collins. These losses are actually hurting the team, not the loss of Drick.  Dale is actually an upgrade over Drick believe it or not.  This team right now doesn't have a quality backup at the 5 spot or the 3 spot.  Jaqwan can be that guy at the 3 but hasn't seen the court since Hawaii and I don't know when we will see him again on the court.  Walter is a 4 and unless he puts on 50 pounds, is not going to be a 5.  I'm not saying Josh would have lit it up by any means but he has the body and the skill set of a 3. Shanks has his detractors I know, but I'd kill to have him back right now, its worse without him!

Much like I feel that if Geno started his freshman year instead of TdR they would have won 4-6 more games, I believe that if we still had Shanks and Collins they would have 3 more wins and this team will be a lot better shape. 

 

[nodak651]

15 minutes ago, SWSiouxMN said:

We just don't have the proper replacements right now for Shanks and Collins. These losses are actually hurting the team, not the loss of Drick.  Dale is actually an upgrade over Drick believe it or not.  This team right now doesn't have a quality backup at the 5 spot or the 3 spot.  Jaqwan can be that guy at the 3 but hasn't seen the court since Hawaii and I don't know when we will see him again on the court.  Walter is a 4 and unless he puts on 50 pounds, is not going to be a 5.  I'm not saying Josh would have lit it up by any means but he has the body and the skill set of a 3. Shanks has his detractors I know, but I'd kill to have him back right now, its worse without him!

Much like I feel that if Geno started his freshman year instead of TdR they would have won 4-6 more games, I believe that if we still had Shanks and Collins they would have 3 more wins and this team will be a lot better shape. 

 

Drick is a huge loss and his rebounding is huge.  He's playing 25 minutes a game for Washington State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/drick-bernstine-1.html

I'd rather have Drick than Shanks.  Shanks is tall, but he was very uncoordinated and skinny.  Guy couldn't catch a pass, rebound, or shoot.  He was terrible at the line too.  Oh, and he would foul out in like 15 - 20 minutes!

[jdub27]

17 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Drick is a huge loss and his rebounding is huge.  He's playing 25 minutes a game for Washington State. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/drick-bernstine-1.html

I'd rather have Drick than Shanks.  Shanks is tall, but he was very uncoordinated and skinny.  Guy couldn't catch a pass, rebound, or shoot.  He was terrible at the line too.  Oh, and he would foul out in like 15 - 20 minutes!

The point is that Drick's replacement has been just as good if not better but there has been no suitable replacements for Shanks or Collins. I do think that Jones and Drick could have been on the floor at the same time and there would be a pretty good small-ball lineup of Drick/Jones/Seales/Stewart/Geno that would have definitely kept teams on their toes.

[ibleedgreen]

20 hours ago, hoops44 said:

New ad is going to give jones a 420k buyout....what ya been smoking

So they wouldn't get rid of him because of 420k? Trust me....They will find it.

I wont go to another BB game until he is gone and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

[hoops44]

4 minutes ago, ibleedgreen said:

So they wouldn't get rid of him because of 420k? Trust me....They will find it.

I wont go to another BB game until he is gone and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

They did not find 100k 2 years ago...zero chance 400k

[petey23]

6 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

I don't like the Summit for a variety of reasons, but their MBB is much better than the Big Sky Conference.

Top 2-3 are pretty even. Summit is a little better from 4-8 and doesn't have a 9-12 too drag them down.

Travel and playing on the road in the Big Sky is much tougher. The road trips are hellacious.

 

[petey23]

2 hours ago, jdub27 said:

The point is that Drick's replacement has been just as good if not better but there has been no suitable replacements for Shanks or Collins. I do think that Jones and Drick could have been on the floor at the same time and there would be a pretty good small-ball lineup of Drick/Jones/Seales/Stewart/Geno that would have definitely kept teams on their toes.

I think that was the benefit of Drick in that he could score a little down low and from mid range. He also saw the floor well and has a high basketball IQ. I have watched Wazzu a couple times this year and many times they rotate and run their offense through him at the top of the key. Being able to use Geno at the 1 or 2, Stewart at the 1,2 or 3, Seales at the 3 and 4 if we go small and using Drick at the 3,4, and 5, Jones at the 4 and 5, and Avants at the 5 would have changed the look of this team quite a bit and given us much more flexibility. Drick was the Swiss Army Knife.

[darell1976]

3 hours ago, southpaw said:

And six months later, team up with Darryl to bring up this same thread if they go 0-2 in conference play.

 

You must have missed this comment.

[ibleedgreen]

1 minute ago, hoops44 said:

They did not find 100k 2 years ago...zero chance 400k

Yeah, under Brian Faison? No !@#$. I wouldn't have given Brian Faison my used toilet paper let alone cash to spend.

 The new AD (whoever they are) will motivate the donors after they realize the big picture. Making the Big Dance year after year and getting an occasional big dance upset is bigger than anything the football or hockey team could do from a national attention standpoint.

[hoops44]

Bernstine better on boards and a lot better on defense...than jones