Big Sky Tournament

[siouxfan512]

ok, follow up question then. Personal opinions of the Summit aside, from a conference standpoint, why were so many people opposed to the Summit? I believe even a 8-8 (conference record) SDSU has a higher RPI than a Big Sky leading UND. Looks like SDSU will get a 16 seed, while UND could end up in a play in game.

Seems to me that making the move to the Summit is a solid move for the program, and not just because of travel cost or attendance.

[siouxfan512]

5 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

There have been quite a few upsets already.  SDSU in the summit.  The top 3 seeds are out in the Horizon tournament.  I think we are sitting well for a chance at 15 or higher right now if we win.

Not sure when Lunardi's lated projection was, but he still had us at a play in game. I guess it will be a wait and see scenario.

[dmksioux]

4 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

There have been quite a few upsets already.  SDSU in the summit.  The top 3 seeds are out in the Horizon tournament.  I think we are sitting well for a chance at 15 or higher right now if we win.

I know some posters don't believe RPI is much of a factor for one bid conferences, but I disagree, primarily seeding purposes.  SDSU was an upset, but their RPI is 155.  Northern Kentucky won the Horizon and and their RPI is 89.  UND on the other hand is at 172.  If we win the tourney, it will go up, but not enough to pass those two teams.

http://realtimerpi.com/college_Men_basketball_rpi4.html

[cowboys5xsbs]

Just now, dmksioux said:

I know some posters don't believe RPI is much of a factor for one bid conferences, but I disagree, primarily seeding purposes.  SDSU was an upset, but their RPI is 155.  Northern Kentucky won the Horizon and and their RPI is 89.  UND on the other hand is at 172.  If we win the tourney, it will go up, but not enough to pass those two teams.

http://realtimerpi.com/college_Men_basketball_rpi4.html

Damn I didn't realize our RPI was that bad.  

[dmksioux]

8 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

Damn I didn't realize our RPI was that bad.  

The Big Sky Conference really needs to elevate their level of play.  As Siouxfan512 referenced, the Summit is a much better Basketball conference the last 5+ years.  Will it stay that way, who knows.  But the NCC was always a great conference for many sports due to rivalries, being state schools, budgets, etc.  The Summit has become the NCC 2.0 and is working it's way to being a solid mid major conference.

 

EDIT:  I kind of chuckled a bit last night watching the SDSU game on ESPN.  They were talking about how the Summit is becoming a good mid major conference and the announcer said it's going to get better as the University of North Dakota is joining the conference in a couple years.  

[dmksioux]

4 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

Damn I didn't realize our RPI was that bad.  

It appears that teams that have already qualified for the NCAA tournament are bolded in that link, other than SDSU.  So far SDSU has the lowest RPI at 155.

[UNDBIZ]

6 minutes ago, dmksioux said:

The Big Sky Conference really needs to elevate their level of play adjust/improve its scheduling to focus more on conference RPI.  As Siouxfan512 referenced, the Summit is a much better Basketball conference has a much better RPI thanks to fewer conference games and more non-conference games against top-ranked teams than the Big Sky the last 5+ years.  Will it stay that way, who knows.  But the NCC was always a great conference for many sports due to rivalries, being state schools, budgets, etc.  The Summit has become the NCC 2.0 and is working it's way to being a solid mid major conference.

FYP

Has the Summit been a better basketball conference than the Big Sky the past few years?  Sure.  But the reason its RPI is "much" better is due to scheduling.

[jdub27]

37 minutes ago, UNDBIZ said:

FYP

Has the Summit been a better basketball conference than the Big Sky the past few years?  Sure.  But the reason its RPI is "much" better is due to scheduling.

I'm guessing that extra non-conference game part goes away with UND joining and they will go from 16 games to 18 games (playing each team home and away).

To your other point, the Summit has 9 teams and went 4-28 against top 100 teams, however of those games, they played 15 against top 50 RPI teams (0-15). The Big Sky has 12 teams was 3-25 against top 100 teams, however they only played 6 games against top 50 RPI teams (0-6). That is a huge difference in scheduling, especially when you take into account there being 3 more teams in the Big Sky and how much RPI is dependent on your opponent, not necessarily whether you win or lose. The problem is that it is significantly harder for the Big Sky to schedule against those top tier teams to "boost" RPI because there are so few of them out west, relatively speaking.

[SiouxVolley]

39 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

ok, follow up question then. Personal opinions of the Summit aside, from a conference standpoint, why were so many people opposed to the Summit? I believe even a 8-8 (conference record) SDSU has a higher RPI than a Big Sky leading UND. Looks like SDSU will get a 16 seed, while UND could end up in a play in game.

Seems to me that making the move to the Summit is a solid move for the program, and not just because of travel cost or attendance.

IPFW, IUPUI, and Western Illinois are dregs of that conference who don't even provide a good travel stop.  The Big Sky is just so much more of a sexier conference.  A tournament in Sioux Falls vs one in Reno?  For someone who lives far from ND, the Slummit is so much more unappealing for travel locations.  For most of the Slummit's existence, schools have wanted out, not in like UND has done.

[siouxfan512]

1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

IPFW, IUPUI, and Western Illinois are dregs of that conference who don't even provide a good travel stop.  The Big Sky is just so much more of a sexier conference.  A tournament in Sioux Falls vs one in Reno?  For someone who lives far from ND, the Slummit is so much more unappealing travel locations.  For most of the Slummit's existence, schools have wanted out, not in like UND has done.

Right, but come tourney time, the quality of the teams can have a significant impact in seedings. I'm not talking about person preference on cities, I'm talking about team caliber and RPI.

Heck, lets throw your in your example ... I'll take Sioux Falls 10 times over. That place has been packed for conference tournaments. This year attendance in SF was 9,441. Last year in SF attendance was 10,188. Last year in Reno, attendance was ....2,516!!

Like I said though, my main point was competition wise. Right you you have an 8-8 (Summit Conf Record) team, that will likely be seeded higher than a 14-4 (Big Sky Conf Record) team. Sound like even if you are a good team in the Big Sky, you are being dragged down by the conference?

 

[UNDBIZ]

8 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

IPFW, IUPUI, and Western Illinois are dregs of that conference who don't even provide a good travel stop.  The Big Sky is just so much more of a sexier conference.  A tournament in Sioux Falls vs one in Reno?  For someone who lives far from ND, the Slummit is so much more unappealing for travel locations.  For most of the Slummit's existence, schools have wanted out, not in like UND has done.

Only one of those is actually attended by fans.  With that said, it's unfortunate the South Dakota schools essentially have home court for the conference tournament every year.

[Siouxperfan7]

53 minutes ago, cowboys5xsbs said:

There have been quite a few upsets already.  SDSU in the summit.  The top 3 seeds are out in the Horizon tournament.  I think we are sitting well for a chance at 15 or higher right now if we win.

No chance.  We are a 16 seed if we make it.  Unless some 3 or 4 seed or lower seeds with worse RPI than us get in, we are looking at the play in game if we make the tournament.  

[UND-1]

10 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

IPFW, IUPUI, and Western Illinois are dregs of that conference who don't even provide a good travel stop.  The Big Sky is just so much more of a sexier conference.  A tournament in Sioux Falls vs one in Reno?  For someone who lives far from ND, the Slummit is so much more unappealing for travel locations.  For most of the Slummit's existence, schools have wanted out, not in like UND has done.

Take a lap.  

[SiouxVolley]

SDSU fans own that Slummit tournament.  They have won it four out of six times, with inferior teams as of late.  An argument can be made for higher RPI, but when SDSU makes it again, the argument is more about home field.  It would be like the NCHC tournament always at the Ralph for more money.

[UND-1]

1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

SDSU fans own that Slummit tournament.  They have won it four out of six times, with inferior teams as of late.

Unfortunately for Big Sky teams, no fans own/care about the BS Tournament.  

[SiouxVolley]

5 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Unfortunately for Big Sky teams, no fans own/care about the BS Tournament.  

Only USD and SDSU fans attended in any numbers.  NDSU or Omaha playing in Reno would have attracted almost the same number of fans as SF.

So the truth is, only SD fans care about the Slummit tournament to actually attend.

[siouxfan512]

9 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

SDSU fans own that Slummit tournament.  They have won it four out of six times, with inferior teams as of late.  An argument can be made for higher RPI, but when SDSU makes it again, the argument is more about home field.  It would be like the NCHC tournament always at the Ralph for more money.

In the last 5 years, they have made the tourney 3 times, being seeded 12, 13 and 14. This year, I'll give you the use of inferior team ... and they will still be seeded higher than UND, if we make it.

[Sioux27]

1 hour ago, siouxfan512 said:

Question regarding selection to the NCAA Bball Tourney.

Obviously in the Big Sky, you have to win the tourney to get the bid. BUT could statement wins, or basically dominating the tourney impact our seeding?

For example, lets say we walk through the tourney, playing the toughest competition possible, or somehow end up playing SUU in the finals and just squeak out a win. Does that impact our seeding between a 16 or 15 at all?

Nope.  Win the tourney or you are dancing only in Climax or Thompson.

[siouxfan512]

Just now, Sioux27 said:

Nope.  Win the tourney or you are dancing only in Climax or Thompson.

I believe there is usually a dance going on in Shelly, MN

[Sioux27]

2 minutes ago, siouxfan512 said:

I believe there is usually a dance going on in Shelly, MN

LOL....   As long as the beets are off the field anything is fair game for a dance.  I used to live up there and love the small towns.

 

[jacksfan29]

1 hour ago, UNDBIZ said:

Only one of those is actually attended by fans.  With that said, it's unfortunate the South Dakota schools essentially have home court for the conference tournament every year.

Neither school are from Sioux Falls. SDSU and of late USD fans buy tickets. For SDSU fans this is a big weekend, even if SDSU are not playing well or in the game they show up. Basketball is huge in Sioux Falls and is huge among SDSU fans. SDSU and USD were the top teams in the old NCC and along with NDSU are becoming the dominant teams in the Summit. I expect UND to be in the top half from day one. Jones may need to go for you to compete for a title. It will happen.

SDSU have been in the SL tournament since the 2008-2009 season. We have won the tourney 4 times. Three as the #1 or #2 seed, one (this year) as the #4. NDSU, who I don't think has "essentially a home court" have gone 3 times including an upset of the "home" team, #1 seed  SDSU in the finals in 2015. SDSU did not win this year due to "home court". We won because we have the best player in the Summit and his supporting cast finally meshed into a team. We've won 9 of the last 12. They turned it around. Daum had four NBA scouts sitting court side last night. San Antonio scouts have shown up at multiple games this season. Daum will likely play next season and leave for the NBA as a first round pick. He is that good.

As for SV's attendance statement. First round WOMEN's games this year, with not one South Dakota team playing brought in 3,500. First round night games, with only one South Dakota school (USD) playing brought in 9,500. A few years back, when Oakland and ORU played in the championship game 7,000 attended. NDSU's championship games not against SDSU have brought in 7,000. Yes, having a South Dakota school (especially SDSU) playing is going to help attendance but even minus SDSU or USD in the title game the Summit brings in more butts than the Big Sky. A great comment I heard this week. Last year the BSC tournament, all sessions had 11,500 attend. The USD v SDSU semi had 11,300 by itself. As for it being akin to UND and The Ralph? The Ralph is UND home ice. The Denny is not SDSU, or USD's home court. We play there one weekend a year, in the Summit tournament. A better comparison to Sioux hockey? UND playing a regional in Minneapolis or Fargo. 

And to the ESPN comment about the Summit and UND. It is true. UND does improve the Summit. No question. 

[Hambone]

Sioux Falls is a huge basketball town, so even though SDSU/USD get really good attendance numbers I think that just based on the city the tourney would have decent attendance without.

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said:

  A tournament in Sioux Falls vs one in Reno?  For someone who lives far from ND, the Slummit is so much more unappealing for travel locations.  

Why would UND cater more so to those living out-of-state versus those in-state? Last I checked, UND stands for University of NORTH DAKOTA.

I am very happy with the move to the Summit and Missouri Valley Football Conferences - they both make more financial and logistical sense. If your priority is to travel to an "appealing travel location", fly to Hawaii or Mexico. 

[darell1976]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

Updated today

They have us (172 RPI) in a play in game vs New Orleans (179 RPI)....winner to play Kansas.

SDSU #16 vs Gonzaga. 

Mt. St. Mary's (152 RPI) vs North Carolina Central (218 RPI) the other #16 play in. 

[Thumper 76]

17 hours ago, siouxfan512 said:

In the last 5 years, they have made the tourney 3 times, being seeded 12, 13 and 14. This year, I'll give you the use of inferior team ... and they will still be seeded higher than UND, if we make it.

To add to this, when was the last time a Big Sky team got better than a 16 seed? I honestly have no idea and am curious. This will be the first time in a while that the Summit has gotten a 16, and that was from a mid pick team that got hot in a year where everyone was jumbled together. Also it was the first year that a 1 or a 2 seed wasn't in the championship game since the 90's I believe. The bottom line is that the Summit gets more respect and attention nationally as a conference and for the atmosphere of the tournament and it shows when seeds are handed out to the big dance. Also, I would be willing to bet the first two days of the women's tournament in the Summit out drew the Big Sky tournament men's and women's combined or was close. Not tryin to rag on the Sky, really I'm not, but to try and say the Summit is worse in comparison is at best dishonest.