Risky Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Thank you for proving my point,. In the big picture, not a lot of time is spent talking about Red River either. It is like a drop in the bucket to what the University of North Dakota represents. The University of North Dakota represents a lot more than just the south side of Grand Forks. Thanks for your comment. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 We could bring in Neil Patrick Harris as our new PA guy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3783769-letter-roosevelts-racism-puts-roughriders-limits Interesting So the playbook from Spirit Lake now involves painting Teddy R. as a racist. Classy move. Sioux Forever, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 So the playbook from Spirit Lake now involves painting Teddy R. as a racist. Classy move. Sioux Forever, right? Welcome to the world of hyper political correctness. Andrew Jackson owned slaves (as did many during that time) and killed lots of Native Americans so he can't be on the 20 dollar bill anymore. Walt Whitman's "Song of Myself" makes reference to the "barbaric yawp" of Native Americans so we can't read that anymore. Mark Twain's "Huck Finn" makes reference to Huck's best friend "Jim" with the "N" word so we can't read that anymore. It's crazy; it's just as crazy as the uproar over the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo. TR did, in fact, say/write those things so choosing him as a mascot would probably have protest implications. I don't think "Roughriders" should be chosen as the nickname either but what TR may have written or said is of little consequence one way or another. Unfortunately, at the time, I bet 90% of the people said or wrote what he said or wrote or worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 So the playbook from Spirit Lake now involves painting Teddy R. as a racist. Classy move. Sioux Forever, right? ^^^^this. If we can't be the Sioux (which I am sure had racists towards white people) we can't be anything. This nickname issue needs to go away and a nicknam needs to be chosen as of yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Thank you for proving my point,. In the big picture, not a lot of time is spent talking about Red River either. It is like a drop in the bucket to what the University of North Dakota represents. The University of North Dakota represents a lot more than just the south side of Grand Forks. Thanks for your comment. Yes, UND represents a lot more than just the south side of Grand Forks. But you are discounting the fact that the schools are less than 2 miles apart, that they are covered by the same local media, and that there are thousands of local and regional people that are either affiliated with both schools or are at least familiar with both schools. None of these factors are true for your comparisons of Hazen or Milnor, which means that those comparisons are not very relevant. That was my point. The situation of having UND and Red River using the same nickname is not comparable to any local situation, and definitely not similar to Hazen or Milnor. The only comparison that I know of that is close is Iowa State Cyclones and Ames Little Cyclones. That is a case where the high school copied the college team, but added Little to acknowledge the fact that they were the different team. Not a case of the local university copying the local high school with the exact same name. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yes, UND represents a lot more than just the south side of Grand Forks. But you are discounting the fact that the schools are less than 2 miles apart, that they are covered by the same local media, and that there are thousands of local and regional people that are either affiliated with both schools or are at least familiar with both schools. None of these factors are true for your comparisons of Hazen or Milnor, which means that those comparisons are not very relevant. That was my point. The situation of having UND and Red River using the same nickname is not comparable to any local situation, and definitely not similar to Hazen or Milnor. The only comparison that I know of that is close is Iowa State Cyclones and Ames Little Cyclones. That is a case where the high school copied the college team, but added Little to acknowledge the fact that they were the different team. Not a case of the local university copying the local high school with the exact same name. Boston College and Boston College High School (BC High) same school colors and team name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 ^^^^this. If we can't be the Sioux (which I am sure had racists towards white people) we can't be anything. This nickname issue needs to go away and a nickname needs to be chosen as of yesterday. All of these potential "controversies" are exactly why Sundogs will be the obvious choice in some, if not the majority, of the committee members' respective minds. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 All of these potential "controversies" are exactly why Sundogs will be the obvious choice in some, if not the majority, of the committee members' respective minds. I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvdebbies Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 All of these potential "controversies" are exactly why Sundogs will be the obvious choice in some, if not the majority, of the committee members' respective minds. I'm not so sure...Roughrider nation has been used twice in the last hour.....its spreading like wildfire....i'm not sure it can be stopped now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Boston College and Boston College High School (BC High) same school colors and team name. Started out as a single school that later split into high school and college. Not a lot of comparable situations to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 End results the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 #Roll Riders. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 All of these potential "controversies" are exactly why Sundogs will be the obvious choice in some, if not the majority, of the committee members' respective minds. Too many native religious ties to Sundogs. Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Too many urban dictionary searches of Sundogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yes, UND represents a lot more than just the south side of Grand Forks. But you are discounting the fact that the schools are less than 2 miles apart, that they are covered by the same local media, and that there are thousands of local and regional people that are either affiliated with both schools or are at least familiar with both schools. None of these factors are true for your comparisons of Hazen or Milnor, which means that those comparisons are not very relevant. That was my point. The situation of having UND and Red River using the same nickname is not comparable to any local situation, and definitely not similar to Hazen or Milnor. The only comparison that I know of that is close is Iowa State Cyclones and Ames Little Cyclones. That is a case where the high school copied the college team, but added Little to acknowledge the fact that they were the different team. Not a case of the local university copying the local high school with the exact same name.Said it before but Red River will be referred to as Red Riders. It distinguishes them from Rough Riders or Riders and it's their school color. If the RRRR name is that precious to you, I'm sure UND will donate $50 k to RRHS from the new royalties to pay for RRHS changing their name to Rough Roosevelts or Rough Rivers or Red Rovers or something, maybe even Sundogs. UND's a state flagship that deserves a state nickname, regardless of who had it first, which was the Dickinson American Legion team. Maybe they will have people here bellyaching too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yes, UND represents a lot more than just the south side of Grand Forks. But you are discounting the fact that the schools are less than 2 miles apart, that they are covered by the same local media, and that there are thousands of local and regional people that are either affiliated with both schools or are at least familiar with both schools. None of these factors are true for your comparisons of Hazen or Milnor, which means that those comparisons are not very relevant. That was my point. The situation of having UND and Red River using the same nickname is not comparable to any local situation, and definitely not similar to Hazen or Milnor. The only comparison that I know of that is close is Iowa State Cyclones and Ames Little Cyclones. That is a case where the high school copied the college team, but added Little to acknowledge the fact that they were the different team. Not a case of the local university copying the local high school with the exact same name. They might be 2 miles apart but it just isn't a problem. The people connected to Red River know the difference and most everyone else doesn't care. Most of the Red River people I have talked to have no problem with it. Every possible nickname has some negatives. The University has to sit back and look at the big picture. The negative with using the Roughrider name is far and away outweighed by the many positives with using Roughriders. Nothing is going to be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 They might be 2 miles apart but it just isn't a problem. The people connected to Red River know the difference and most everyone else doesn't care. Most of the Red River people I have talked to have no problem with it. Every possible nickname has some negatives. The University has to sit back and look at the big picture. The negative with using the Roughrider name is far and away outweighed by the many positives with using Roughriders. Nothing is going to be perfect. It is a problem, it just hasn't been decided how big of a problem it is. I've talked to people from both Red River and Central that have a problem with it, and people that don't. Yes, there are problems with every potential nickname. My point was that comparing UND and Red River using the same nickname with NDSU and Hazen was not an equal comparison. I agree that UND needs to look at the big picture. Part of that is recognizing any potential conflict with Red River using the nickname, and whether that is bigger than the potential good that could come out of it. You think the positive outweighs the negative, we will see whether the committee and the University agree or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 What's the "problem"? Herald articles (a sports writer already said one of his favorite UND nicknames was Roughriders) that states "Roughriders beat Fargo Shanley for EDC Title" will confuse 12 people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yes, UND represents a lot more than just the south side of Grand Forks. But you are discounting the fact that the schools are less than 2 miles apart, that they are covered by the same local media, and that there are thousands of local and regional people that are either affiliated with both schools or are at least familiar with both schools. None of these factors are true for your comparisons of Hazen or Milnor, which means that those comparisons are not very relevant. That was my point. The situation of having UND and Red River using the same nickname is not comparable to any local situation, and definitely not similar to Hazen or Milnor. The only comparison that I know of that is close is Iowa State Cyclones and Ames Little Cyclones. That is a case where the high school copied the college team, but added Little to acknowledge the fact that they were the different team. Not a case of the local university copying the local high school with the exact same name. The Iowa Hawkeyes local high school is "The Little Hawks". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 What's the "problem"? Herald articles (a sports writer already said one of his favorite UND nicknames was Roughriders) that states "Roughriders beat Fargo Shanley for EDC Title" will confuse 12 people? Does the sports writer now speak for the entire community? Or is it that your opinion trumps everyone who disagrees with you? There are people that don't like the idea because a local school already uses it. A sports nickname helps give a school an identity. Some people see it as UND stealing or diluting the local school's identity. Red River has used the nickname for almost 50 years. Others, mainly Central alumni, don't like the name because it is associated with Red River. You don't have to agree with either of them. But the school has to recognize the potential conflict and decide if it is enough of a problem to choose a different name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The Iowa Hawkeyes local high school is "The Little Hawks". They do that like Ames as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Does the sports writer now speak for the entire community? Or is it that your opinion trumps everyone who disagrees with you? There are people that don't like the idea because a local school already uses it. A sports nickname helps give a school an identity. Some people see it as UND stealing or diluting the local school's identity. Red River has used the nickname for almost 50 years. Others, mainly Central alumni, don't like the name because it is associated with Red River. You don't have to agree with either of them. But the school has to recognize the potential conflict and decide if it is enough of a problem to choose a different name.So I'll ask again ...what exactly is the conflict? It will upset a few people? That's not really a "problem" as any new nickname will upset some people. All seven new nicknames have conflicts. And most people would think a local high school is of low priority conflict. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakhoops Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The high school argument does not make sense to me at all.......these are high schools? They don't play in front of crowds of 2,000-12,000 people like UND does. Their not on national TV like UND is, they don't have 15,000 students and 100,000 some alumni. The townies that are making a big deal about that need to realize there is much more to this state/region than the little Grand Forks bubble. UND reaches beyond the borders of Grand Forks and even the state of ND. if Fargo North wanted to change their name to the Bison few would care. They are high schools where most of the crowds are parents and grandparents of players. If that is an issue I suggest you travel outside of Grand Forks county more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The high school argument does not make sense to me at all.......these are high schools? They don't play in front of crowds of 2,000-12,000 people like UND does. Their not on national TV like UND is, they don't have 15,000 students and 100,000 some alumni. The townies that are making a big deal about that need to realize there is much more to this state/region than the little Grand Forks bubble. UND reaches beyond the borders of Grand Forks and even the state of ND. if Fargo North wanted to change their name to the Bison few would care. They are high schools where most of the crowds are parents and grandparents of players. If that is an issue I suggest you travel outside of Grand Forks county more. There are 50,000 plus people that live in the city of Grand Forks. They buy tickets to games at UND. Their businesses are sponsors for events. The kids become students at UND. The community is a major support system for the school and the athletic program. This isn't some rural school with a couple of hundred students. Some of their games do have attendance of at least a couple of thousand. That's why it has to be taken into consideration. It doesn't matter if you can't see a potential problem, I'm sure that officials at UND will take it into consideration. The local citizens get to have their opinion, just like you. If Fargo North wants to change their name, let them. That doesn't mean that Grand Forks residents and former residents don't get to have an opinion on the subject that you may not like. Your dismissal of that opinion isn't going to help the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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