Shawn-O Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Absolutizing what is not absolute, and aggressive rationalization. It is you who are employing these tactics, sir. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeder11 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Whom or what you trust is irrelevant. Where I frequent on the website is likewise irrelevant. With several years at UND and various 400 mile trips up there from South Central Minnesota for FB and hockey games, my "UND cred" is just fine but way to invoke a tangent. Changing the discourse to pursue a tangent and to hold yourself up as someone to whom some burden of proof must be satisfied reveals much. There is no prohibition against not having a nickname in the agreement. Whether you like that or not is irrelevant. Absolutizing what is not absolute but is relative (at the very least), through obfuscating rhetoric about marketing or outright scare tactics, does not constitute "allegiance" to anything. That's just aggressive rationalizing. One would at least hope that more creativity would be employed. You were talking one trick ponies weren't you? This strategy is certainly a paradigm of that. Oh, I'm sorry, Chew toy, did you have another tired rejoinder? Pity to leave you hanging, but the rest of us were taking in an overtime thriller of a hockey game involving our favorite team. But I won't bore you with the details of that exciting match, for it has nothing to do with the hobby horse you love to kick. Well, you didn't disappoint (although I was really hoping you'd sprinkle a few more of your hundred dollar words, like "syntax divination" and "eisegesis," down on us rubes -- must be a private school upbringing thing). You really are a not-very-informative broken record, aren't you? Go UND!!!!! Woo hoo!!!! OD in OT, baby!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The MIAC has it solve with Johnnies Tommies Oles Gusties Auggies etc. Go by the Nodaks or Daks if North Dakota is too offensive. ... So, if I apply your logic to the University of North Dakota, it leads me to the Nokotas. Actually think that's a pretty darn good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Nice of you to personify the lack of creativity, especially with the obligatory classism reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 So, if I apply your logic to the University of North Dakota, it leads me to the Nokotas. Actually think that's a pretty darn good choice. Probably not a bad choice for those who want a nickname. I can't remember where the name originally came from. PCM, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Can't we just go with Soo? Our logo can be some big ass train coming down the tracks...that would solve a lot of issues on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Probably not a bad choice for those who want a nickname. I can't remember where the name originally came from. PCM, maybe? The North Dakota state horse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 OK, so I think I have finally figured out how to fix this whole nickname boondoggle... Kelly is retiring, right? UND needs a new President, right? UND/Kelly has done nothing to address the tribal disapproval of the Sioux nickname. Am I right so far? So, the SBOHE should name either Archie Fool Bear or Eunice Davidson as the next President of UND and UND would have an executive with the passion and NA backing to go to the NCAA and the Tribal Councils to approve the name they have passionately supported through this whole circus. The return of the University of North Dakota Sioux is at hand. You're welcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 They are probably to smart to do it but I like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 https://m.facebook.com/thesiouxweresilenced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperdouper Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 If the NCAA has a policy against NA nicknames then why can Florida/Utah get away with it. bull$%!#, the NCAA are hyporites/bullies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 If the NCAA has a policy against NA nicknames then why can Florida/Utah get away with it. bull$%!#, the NCAA are hyporites/bullies. Both Utah and Florida have namesake approvals from their one tribe in their states. The bigger question always had always been Central Michigan. The are a number of Chippewa bands in their state, but only one was secured, the closest one to Mt Pleasant. In my opinion, it was Stenejem, Hoeven, and later Dalrymple who didn't want to spend political capital on this issue, so they allowed the lawsuit settlement to include both require Sioux tribes (even though Standing Rock is mostly in SD). They might have appeared to be a friend, but secretly they wanted the name to die. Democrats were mostly always against the nickname, so they fueled the fire against the nickname (Dorgan, Conrad, and Pomeroy). For all the grief people like Al Carlsen caught, he had a point that state politicians didn't care enough. Myles Brand had it in for UND and the Sioux nickname but he died. Mark Emmert is much more reasonable, at least according to Terry Wanless, but no one ever challenged him to change the stance. Kelley went to him begging him not to acquiesce, but claiming he had UNDs interests at heart. The Fighting Sioux nickname never had a friend in Federal office starting in 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Both Utah and Florida have namesake approvals from their one tribe in their states. The bigger question always had always been Central Michigan. The are a number of Chippewa bands in their state, but only one was secured, the closest one to Mt Pleasant. In my opinion, it was Stenejem, Hoeven, and later Dalrymple who didn't want to spend political capital on this issue, so they allowed the lawsuit settlement to include both require Sioux tribes (even though Standing Rock is mostly in SD). They might have appeared to be a friend, but secretly they wanted the name to die. Democrats were mostly always against the nickname, so they fueled the fire against the nickname (Dorgan, Conrad, and Pomeroy). For all the grief people like Al Carlsen caught, he had a point that state politicians didn't care enough. Myles Brand had it in for UND and the Sioux nickname but he died. Mark Emmert is much more reasonable, at least according to Terry Wanless, but no one ever challenged him to change the stance. Kelley went to him begging him not to acquiesce, but claiming he had UNDs interests at heart. The Fighting Sioux nickname never had a friend in Federal office starting in 2000. Didn't Brand want all the logos at the Ralph gone but never took a tour of it, and Emmert after taking a tour of the Ralph said most of the logos are okay due to cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewey Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Didn't Brand want all the logos at the Ralph gone but never took a tour of it, and Emmert after taking a tour of the Ralph said most of the logos are okay due to cost. This is point in fact as to SiouxVolley's point about Brand vs. Emmert. I have to give the NCAA some credit here because when Emmert or whomever saw what would need to be done to eradicate the Ralph of the images embedded in granite, etc., they thought better of it and relented. Myles Brand and Walter Harrison didn't care and they wanted the stuff removed regardless, if memory serves me correctly. Brand was a died in the wool leftist and left a pattern of disaster in his wake wherever he went, including and most notoriously Indiana/Bobby Knight. Indiana's BB program has been shite ever since he left, except for one or two years where the successor had success with Knight's recruits. Brand had it in for ND all along and ND's federal political weasels like Conrad, Dorgan, Pomeroy, Hoeven etc. didn't do squat. The voice of one of them would have been all that was necessary to make it go away. The sleaziness was to be expected from the first three as they had been feeding at the public trough virtually from day one following college graduation. Hoever, however, was a complete disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 This is point in fact as to SiouxVolley's point about Brand vs. Emmert. I have to give the NCAA some credit here because when Emmert or whomever saw what would need to be done to eradicate the Ralph of the images embedded in granite, etc., they thought better of it and relented. Myles Brand and Walter Harrison didn't care and they wanted the stuff removed regardless, if memory serves me correctly. Brand was a died in the wool leftist and left a pattern of disaster in his wake wherever he went, including and most notoriously Indiana/Bobby Knight. Indiana's BB program has been shite ever since he left, except for one or two years where the successor had success with Knight's recruits. Brand had it in for ND all along and ND's federal political weasels like Conrad, Dorgan, Pomeroy, Hoeven etc. didn't do squat. The voice of one of them would have been all that was necessary to make it go away. The sleaziness was to be expected from the first three as they had been feeding at the public trough virtually from day one following college graduation. Hoever, however, was a complete disappointment. Some blame can easily be put at the feet of past UND leaders too. If a small share to the Sioux nickname royalties had been funneled to Standing Rock and Spirit Lake childrens development programs when Brien's logo became popular, the whole mess could have been avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Some blame can easily be put at the feet of past UND leaders too. If a small share to the Sioux nickname royalties had been funneled to Standing Rock and Spirit Lake childrens development programs when Brien's logo became popular, the whole mess could have been avoided. Oddly, the Native American Studies programs at UND we're very good, while the outreach to the tribes in the state was horrible. A huge failure om the administration's part. It probably was the underlying reason the Fighting Sioux name is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Both Utah and Florida have namesake approvals from their one tribe in their states. Florida has more than one Seminole tribe, at least from what I've read on the subject. Not all of them support the nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Florida has more than one Seminole tribe, at least from what I've read on the subject. Not all of them support the nickname. There is one Seminole tribe in Florida and there is a tribe called the Miccosukee that broke off from the Seminoles about 50 years ago. They both have multiple reservation locations in Florida. The Miccosukee did not object to the Seminoles nickname during the original policy announcement and haven't seemed to object to it since. I have never seen or heard of an official position issued by the Miccosukee. The other Seminole tribe is in Oklahoma. They are the largest of the tribes by far. They were forced out of Florida and resettled in Oklahoma. There were reports in 2005 that the Seminoles of Oklahoma were against the Florida State use of Seminoles as a nickname. It turns out that a single member of the tribal government made those claims. The Seminole tribe of Oklahoma did not have a position on the Florida State use of the Seminoles nickname at that time. In October 2013 the Seminoles of Oklahoma issued a resolution against the use of Native American sports nicknames in the public school system, colleges and universities, and by professional sports teams. However, since they are in Oklahoma that has no bearing on a school in Florida as far as the NCAA is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMSioux Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Oddly, the Native American Studies programs at UND we're very good, while the outreach to the tribes in the state was horrible. A huge failure om the administration's part. It probably was the underlying reason the Fighting Sioux name is gone. Yes but this also goes back to a program that is run by Chippewas is not inclined to reach out to Lakota/Sioux - the UND Native American Cultural Center is not welcoming to those who have views different than theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayduke Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Yes but this also goes back to a program that is run by Chippewas is not inclined to reach out to Lakota/Sioux - the UND Native American Cultural Center is not welcoming to those who have views different than theirs. Good point. I remember at my undergrad graduation the booing of members of the Sioux tribe getting their degrees from the Chippewas and vise-versa. Not exactly a love fest between the tribes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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