FSSD Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 NDSU best Title IX defense would be to open its books and show every women's sports is basically funded at the top of its conference and has facilities on par with the men's teams. I guess you could say softball might be funded at a different level but I don't see a real funding difference by NDSU to rationalize a completely different approach for meeting Title IX. Here are the number for all womens sports shared by the Dakota schools. Total NDSU 3,869,847 SDSU 2,980,155 UND 3,452,455 USD 3,197,921 Basketball NDSU 1,060,291 SDSU 962,049 UND 1,088,751 USD 926,778 Golf NDSU 212,801 SDSU 185,196 UND 164,263 USD 171,786 Soccer NDSU 566,590 SDSU 489,120 UND 500,194 USD 399,835 Volleyball NDSU 676,828 SDSU 407,265 UND 646,287 USD 542,269 Softball NDSU 677,989 SDSU 455,473 UND 468,635 USD 429,907 All Track Combined NDSU 675,348 SDSU 481,052 UND 584,325 USD 727,346 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I look at what the BSC sponsors and what UND sponsors, and think: drop baseball and M/W swimming and diving. Please throw in women's hockey with those two. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Please throw in women's hockey with those two. That would create a Title IX concern for UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I admit to being totally uninformed on this subject and have questions... Big Sky schools are planning to offer 18 Full Cost of Attendance stipends to each gender men and women? UND will offer the same - 18 stipends? If UND allocates all these stipends on the men's side to hockey, it seems that UND will be behind not only the other Dakota schools, but also the Big Sky schools in the other men's sports -football and mbb, who will be able to offer the stipends to athletes in the other sports that UND will be ignoring with these stipends? Am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I guess you could say softball might be funded at a different level but I don't see a real funding difference by NDSU to rationalize a completely different approach for meeting Title IX. Here are the number for all womens sports shared by the Dakota schools. Total NDSU 3,869,847 SDSU 2,980,155 UND 3,452,455 USD 3,197,921 Basketball NDSU 1,060,291 SDSU 962,049 UND 1,088,751 USD 926,778 Golf NDSU 212,801 SDSU 185,196 UND 164,263 USD 171,786 Soccer NDSU 566,590 SDSU 489,120 UND 500,194 USD 399,835 Volleyball NDSU 676,828 SDSU 407,265 UND 646,287 USD 542,269 Softball NDSU 677,989 SDSU 455,473 UND 468,635 USD 429,907 All Track Combined NDSU 675,348 SDSU 481,052 UND 584,325 USD 727,346 So, where does the increased cost of travel due to being Big Sky conference members show up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 dakota: The 18 is the number of mens hockey scholarships. UND has said they will do those FCOA to stay competitive in DI hockey. The BSC has said nothing so far beyond it's expensive. UND would need to have 18 FCOA for women to match those for men, but where would they apply them (WBB?, VB?) is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 That would create a Title IX concern for UND. I kind of thought that baseball and womens hockey would be close offsetting one another, although I admittedly don't know the scholarship numbers for either sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Please throw in women's hockey with those two. I agree but it is wishful thinking regardless of circumstances unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonadub Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 dakota: The 18 is the number of mens hockey scholarships. UND has said they will do those FCOA to stay competitive in DI hockey. The BSC has said nothing so far beyond it's expensive. UND would need to have 18 FCOA for women to match those for men, but where would they apply them (WBB?, VB?) is the question. Thanks Sica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I agree but it is wishful thinking regardless of circumstances unfortunately. Not directed you, but I hear over and over that womens hockey is untouchable. Why is that the case? I understand Title IX, but it seems to me that if the appropriate number of mens sports/scholarships were cut at the same time, it could be done. From what I hear, womens hockey is terribly expensive and the biggest drain on the athletic department. At some point, it seems like someone who is serious would have to take a look at it. I bet people thought football at UNO was untouchable at one time. But the bottom line is the bottom line. Also, it seems like its just a matter of time before someone realizes baseball doesn't make much sense at UND. It will never be competitive at the DI level, UND's primary conference doesn't sponsor it, and few people attend games or follow the program. UND is in a perilous position because it has already committed 18+18 FCOA for hockey -- a problem most of UND's competitors don't have to deal with. Once NDSU and others at the FCS level announce FCOA for football, it will be a game changer. UND will have to do something to stay competitive while balancing the books. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Not directed you, but I hear over and over that womens hockey is untouchable. Why is that the case? I understand Title IX, but it seems to me that if the appropriate number of mens sports/scholarships were cut at the same time, it could be done. From what I hear, womens hockey is terribly expensive and the biggest drain on the athletic department. At some point, it seems like someone who is serious would have to take a look at it. I bet people thought football at UNO was untouchable at one time. But the bottom line is the bottom line. Also, it seems like its just a matter of time before someone realizes baseball doesn't make much sense at UND. It will never be competitive at the DI level, UND's primary conference doesn't sponsor it, and few people attend games or follow the program. UND is in a perilous position because it has already committed 18+18 FCOA for hockey -- a problem most of UND's competitors don't have to deal with. Once NDSU and others at the FCS level announce FCOA for football, it will be a game changer. UND will have to do something to stay competitive while balancing the books. Is it a potential Title IX problem, or just a potential PR problem? As I see it, so long as schools such as Bemidji St., SCSU, Mankato and Duluth are funding programs, it might be tough to make the case that UND can't do the same. From what I've been able to gather, the problem might be that UND is spending at or above the levels of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Where is the money going exactly? The women's WCHA is essentially a bus league (other than Ohio St.), and Idalski isn't being paid as much as the Minnesota or Wisconsin coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 That would create a Title IX concern for UND. Pay the other women's coaches more money and give out less scholarships overall. Sounds like a winning formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Idalski already makes plenty for the results he puts out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 OK, I just looked at roster sizes and got surprised. Baseball - 30 M S&D - 23 W S&D - 28 W IH - 23 Nearly identical M (53) v. W (51). But if you dropped all those, you'd have make sure you reallocated the funds to stay in compliance with Title IX. FB and MBB would see some help, as the budget for MBase and MS&D aren't exactly big; WBB and VB and WSoc would make out like bandits (from the prior WIH funds). So the folks looking to help UND FB and UND MBB, this creates the panacea exactly ... how? Is it worth the firestorm it would create because any time a school breathes the words "drop sport" a firestorm erupts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 When they dropped wrestling it was Moe freaking out and various other wrestling fans kind of complaining. That's it. Nobody will care about S&D. Maybe ex-swimmers and that is it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 OK, I just looked at roster sizes and got surprised. Baseball - 30 M S&D - 23 W S&D - 28 W IH - 23 Nearly identical M (53) v. W (51). But if you dropped all those, you'd have make sure you reallocated the funds to stay in compliance with Title IX. FB and MBB would see some help, as the budget for MBase and MS&D aren't exactly big; WBB and VB and WSoc would make out like bandits (from the prior WIH funds). So the folks looking to help UND FB and UND MBB, this creates the panacea exactly ... how? Is it worth the firestorm it would create because any time a school breathes the words "drop sport" a firestorm erupts. I think it would be well worth it. I'm on board for any way possible to divert more funds toward FB, MBB, WBB, and VB. Of the 21 sports that UND offers, there are only 5 that have the opportunity to either generate revenue or break even. Time to trim the fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Drops women's hockey for sure Drop men's baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Another point against S&D is that the pool is getting pretty antiquated, isn't it? Have they ever remodeled it because from what I remember it is pretty old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 What is the point of having women's hockey anywhere? UMD spent $1.54 million on the sport and it had revenues of $140k, a $1.4 million hit. How can any school, especially one that size be ok with that? Obviously based on recent articles I've seen they aren't. Minnesota lost $1.8 million and Wisconsin $1.2 million, at least they have massive budgets but still with FCOA they will take even bigger hits. Spending over a $1 million on a sport that doesn't even have its title game on TV is absolutely insane to me. You could cut the sport and fund FCOA across the board. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I think it would be well worth it. I'm on board for any way possible to divert more funds toward FB, MBB, WBB, and VB. Of the 21 sports that UND offers, there are only 5 that have the opportunity to either generate revenue or break even. Time to trim the fat. Well if you're looking at potential revenue sports ... why not lacrosse*? They could play in the new ITF. It is being build with seating for 1500 or so. *Y'all knew I could only hold out and not say it for so long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Cut women's hockey please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Well if you're looking at potential revenue sports ... why not lacrosse*? They could play in the new ITF. It is being build with seating for 1500 or so. *Y'all knew I could only hold out and not say it for so long. See how much Denver spends on lacrosse and that should give you an idea how much it's going to cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Time Hockey Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Please throw in women's hockey with those two. Why drop women's hockey? It is the second most successful team sport on campus. Drop men's basketball first! They suck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Is it a potential Title IX problem, or just a potential PR problem? As I see it, so long as schools such as Bemidji St., SCSU, Mankato and Duluth are funding programs, it might be tough to make the case that UND can't do the same. From what I've been able to gather, the problem might be that UND is spending at or above the levels of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Where is the money going exactly? The women's WCHA is essentially a bus league (other than Ohio St.), and Idalski isn't being paid as much as the Minnesota or Wisconsin coaches. I don't think it's a Title IX problem. That could be managed relatively easily as part of an overall trimming of sports offerings. I agree that it is perceived as this insurmountable PR problem. It's pretty clear that nothing will happen to womens hockey under the current AD, but I hope once the new AD comes in, he will take a serious look at dropping the sport. Womens hockey gets Grade A coverage from Schlossman at the Herald, is second to none in terms of funding, plays in a beautiful facility, had two local superstars come through the program, and yet it still doesn't draw flies. It is a non-revenue sport with a revenue sport budget. It is not sustainable. Neither Bemidji, SCSU, Mankato, or Duluth are comparable. None of them are DI, they have none of the costs associated with FCS football, and none will have to deal with FCOA for their football programs. Minnesota, Ohio State, and Wisconsin are also not similarly situated because they have enormous overall budgets that can absorb the huge losses associated with womens hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Why drop women's hockey? It is the second most successful team sport on campus. Drop men's basketball first! They suck! Are you drinker then me? It loses 1.4million per year It barley makes the tourney Women's vball and bball lose less and bball has been in march madness. Cut women's hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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