nodak651 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Sorry for being vague... On phone. Any chance Big Sky does not allow stipends for enough sports that UND can't comply with title 9 after paying its men's hockey and basketball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Sorry for being vague... On phone. Any chance Big Sky does not allow stipends for enough sports that UND can't comply with title 9 after paying its men's hockey and basketball? There hasn't been anything official, but I believe the Big Sky will allow it but it will be up to the individual schools to what extent they want to participate. Guessing there will be some Big Sky meetings in the future that will clarify it. If UND offsets their men's hockey stipends on the women's side in basketball and volleyball, it would be a huge advantage. Have you heard something that the Big Sky will offer it in men's basketball? If so, I'd assume it would be pretty much allowed across the board, especially due to it having Title IX implications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 There hasn't been anything official, but I believe the Big Sky will allow it but it will be up to the individual schools to what extent they want to participate. Guessing there will be some Big Sky meetings in the future that will clarify it. If UND offsets their men's hockey stipends on the women's side in basketball and volleyball, it would be a huge advantage. Have you heard something that the Big Sky will offer it in men's basketball? If so, I'd assume it would be pretty much allowed across the board, especially due to it having Title IX implications. UND will probably have to offset men's hockey with women's hockey. It would be a better fit for Title 9 and since the Women's WCHA has Big 10 and NCHC schools, they will probably approve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 UND will probably have to offset men's hockey with women's hockey. It would be a better fit for Title 9 and since the Women's WCHA has Big 10 and NCHC schools, they will probably approve it. That was my original thought as well, but the latest I was told is that UND is exploring offsetting it with sports outside women's hockey. They could still end up doing it that way and how the Big Sky meetings shake out may help determine that. Personally, I'd prefer they applied it to WBB or VB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 UND will probably have to offset men's hockey with women's hockey. It would be a better fit for Title 9 and since the Women's WCHA has Big 10 and NCHC schools, they will probably approve it. They are going to sink even more money into Women's hockey? Get a penny back for every dollar you put in, cool. UND might need to take a page from Omaha and other schools that cut sports to focus on the one's that are important. UND has way too many sports to begin with. Cut the fat (both men and women) and put the money into other sports. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 They are going to sink even more money into Women's hockey? Get a penny back for every dollar you put in, cool. UND might need to take a page from Omaha and other schools that cut sports to focus on the one's that are important. UND has way too many sports to begin with. Cut the fat (both men and women) and put the money into other sports. Women's hockey, basball....DONE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Women's hockey, basball....DONE!!! Agree 100% but I don't foresee women's hockey ever getting the ax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Agree Cut women's hockey Give more to bubs and brew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakhoops Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Tom Miller has an article in the Herald today about this with quotes from Faison. Says Men's Hockey is for sure and the rest is up in the air. If you have to match women's sports I would think the logical choice would be Women's BBall since that brings in the most money and has the most fans for Women's teams. If it is $3500 a student I would think UND should look at funding for Men's hockey, Men's Basketball, with Women's Basketball and Volleyball or women's hockey to match them. I would probably lean to VB before women's hockey based on revenue potential. This could really separate UND from other schools when it comes to recruiting. This amount would easily be covered by increasing champions club dollars a little or raising ticket prices a few bucks. Football would be a big undertaking with 60 some scholarships. I do think if NDSU, SDSU, USD start offering it for football UND needs to do it to stay competitive because that is who they recruit against the most not other Big Sky schools. If that happens they will probably have to look at dropping a sport or two to fund the increase costs which is not an ideal situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hockey is for sure, and that is good to hear. Football better be a sure thing as well if NDSU, SDSU, Montana, etc. offer full cost of attendance. Can't leave football behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 My position on this is simple: Stipends for Men's Hockey, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Football. If other sports need to be cut to make it work, do it. These are the sports we will lean on in the coming years as a Division I school and we cannot afford to let any of them atrophy and die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 My position on this is simple: Stipends for Men's Hockey, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball and Football. If other sports need to be cut to make it work, do it. These are the sports we will lean on in the coming years as a Division I school and we cannot afford to let any of them atrophy and die. Title IX applies to stipends, you'll need a lot more on the women's side in your scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Cut women's hockry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Title IX applies to stipends, you'll need a lot more on the women's side in your scenario. Throwing Women's Hockey into the mix will help cancel out Men's Hockey. How to balance out Football is another problem. Unless we drop Football; there are some people on here that don't even know we still have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Title IX applies to stipends, you'll need a lot more on the women's side in your scenario. UND is almost at 57% male now, higher than even NDSU. Title IX usually requires proportionality. Guess with developing the Petr Engr and Aerospace programs, the male enrollment is rising. NDSU illegally bought a nursing school in Bismarck, so that partially explains the increased female enrollment there. NDSU doesn't use proportionality, but rather interest and aptitudes, one of the few schools that do it. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Bring on buffalo equestrian team or women's wrestling squad there. USD is at 62% female which makes Title IX very difficult for compliance with a football team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I am NOT one of those posters who complains about UND hockey overshadowing other sports, and I generally believe there is no reason UND can't be good at both football and hockey. I am a fan of both UND football and hockey. But I fear this stipend thing is a situation where UND's focus on hockey will hurt the football program. The stipends to the mens programs is not the problem -the huge problem is the offset for Title IX. UND will have to offset the mens stipends for hockey with a proportional number of stipends for women. That will be hard enough in and of itself. It will be really difficult for UND to pay for additional womens stipends to offset stipends for the football program. The schools UND competes against in football don't have that problem. Some of those schools can probably afford to start out with 10-20 football stipends to get a competitive advantage, and then the arms race begins. Can UND afford to keep up when it's starting from behind? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I am NOT one of those posters who complains about UND hockey overshadowing other sports, and I generally believe there is no reason UND can't be good at both football and hockey. I am a fan of both UND football and hockey. But I fear this stipend thing is a situation where UND's focus on hockey will hurt the football program. The stipends to the mens programs is not the problem -the huge problem is the offset for Title IX. UND will have to offset the mens stipends for hockey with a proportional number of stipends for women. That will be hard enough in and of itself. It will be really difficult for UND to pay for additional womens stipends to offset stipends for the football program. The schools UND competes against in football don't have that problem. Some of those schools can probably afford to start out with 10-20 football stipends to get a competitive advantage, and then the arms race begins. Can UND afford to keep up when it's starting from behind? This is my biggest concern. I really don't want a FB program that finishes 4-7 most years, with an occassional 6-5. We need to seriously commit to the program or it will become a financial drain because of poor attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfhockey Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Cut men's baseball 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Invest in the football program and it will pay for itself. Increase attendance by 2k a game X 6 home games X $20 = $240K 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightingsioux4life Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 And for the record, I would gladly support across the board ticket price increases if that is what it takes to get this done. I think an increase in Champions Club donation levels is also very possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Cut men's baseball I'm not sure how many sports we need for conference affiliation and what not, but it would seem that if we cut baseball and a corresponding number of women's scholarships, that should free up some money to offset the cost of adding stipends to hockey, football, volleyball, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneksioux Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Und will have to enact the stipend in any sport a majority of the competition does, simply to stay competitive. Does anyone know what percentage of fcs schools will offer the stipend to their football players? I'm sure ndsu will I guess:/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Is the number of stipends at the discretion of the school, i.e. is it all or nothing by sport? Or can it be a gradual thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Someone who pays closer attention to this can maybe explain this to me. Media stories say that the P5 conferences voted for stipends. None of the stories mention any non-P5 school getting a vote. Do the P5 schools get the exclusive vote on this issue? Does the P5 vote bind non-P5 schools and conferences? What's stopping FCS schools as a whole from voting to ban it (for FCS football)? Why is left up to each individual FCS school to decide for itself whether to do this? I think most people will agree that FCS, generally, cannot afford stipends. However, all it takes is one school to start the dominoes falling and the arms race will be on. It's a virtual certainty that at least one FCS school will start this, forcing the hand of all the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Someone who pays closer attention to this can maybe explain this to me. Media stories say that the P5 conferences voted for stipends. None of the stories mention any non-P5 school getting a vote. Do the P5 schools get the exclusive vote on this issue? Does the P5 vote bind non-P5 schools and conferences? What's stopping FCS schools as a whole from voting to ban it (for FCS football)? Why is left up to each individual FCS school to decide for itself whether to do this? I think most people will agree that FCS, generally, cannot afford stipends. However, all it takes is one school to start the dominoes falling and the arms race will be on. It's a virtual certainty that at least one FCS school will start this, forcing the hand of all the rest. There are about a half dozen or so FCS programs that could afford to do this. Three of them are on the schedule next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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