UND vs. St. Lawrence Saints - Saturday

[Wilbur]

^^^^Good post. With the new league settup UND may be required to win the NCHC tournament to make the NCAA's if their inconsistent play continues. Its probably easier to win the NCHC than it has been the WCHA F5. Get there. Win two games in two days against teams who have all had equal the rest you have had.

[southpaw]

I like that many of the people who complain about UND playing a dump and chase style also complain about poor decisions with the puck. You need guys with skill who make good decisions with the puck to carry the puck into the zone. Dump and chase allows you to get the puck deep into the zone where guys with less skill can try ad win a battle along the boards. It also forces the defenders to turn their backs on incoming forwards. UND has scored a lot of its goals this year on passes from down low to the front of the net. That's what dump and chase is designed to help.

[scpa0305]

He's actually a regular contributor from the past.

Yeah I know but I haven't heard from him in some time. Trolls always come out don't they.

[siouxweet]

I too know very little about hockey, and only scored one game winning goal in intramural hockey in the way back, with a real wooden Christian Brothers $5 stick. But you won't see that stop me from offering my $.02 either.

An assessment through November...

STRENGTHS

1. Character. As always at UND (going back to the Gasparini days!), we have guys who will bleed for the team, who play injured, who will barf between shifts and then go back out and give 100%. I do not see any evidence of loafing or guys who don't care.

2. Conditioning. If memory serves, this group of players graded very highly on the dryland testing coming into camp this fall. (Best in ten years is a quote I recall.) In games, there's no pattern of late-period issues or 3rd-period issues that would suggest conditioning is it.

3. Fundamental skills and talent. These guys can skate. There's decent hands guys. And obviously with 15 draft picks, lack of skills can't be an excuse. It should be an area of strength.

4. Freshman class. In a season where we lost a lot of scoring and three experienced blueliners (counting Gleason for this purpose), this team had to put rookies into key roles. Calling out for special mention here: Luke Johnson, Paul Ladue, Troy Stecher. Although I have to say that Gage Ausmus reminds me of James Patrick; superb lateral movement and an explosive first step to create space. Just about every PK unit this weekend seemed to have 2 rookies. (Can't get back St Clair and McMillans soon enough.)

WEAKNESSES

1. Poor decisioning with the puck. Lots of little mistakes that turn into the team getting bottled up. Just from this weekend's games, I recall half-dozen times when someone behind the net threw the puck up the wall too hard for the UND forward to get there. We also fail to clear the zone far more than I've seen in the last 10 years; a half-dozen of those plays as well just from this weekend. POISE with the puck is needed. Much of the time, we're moving the puck before forced. Hanging onto it a half-second longer and making a fundamentally solid pass would go a long way to getting out of our own zone consistently well.

2. Inadequate play without the puck. While #1 above is about the guy with the puck, this comment is about the guys without the puck. Often times, they are not finding the space and not becoming a target to receive the puck. The best teams at this have guys moving full speed to get open. Many times it looks like we are going half-speed, without conviction, and as a result, we're too easy to cover and its too easy for the opposing team to break up the play.

3. Goaltending is not consistently sharp. Its not clear to me whether this is a mental issue, a physical / fundamental issue, or just plain bad luck. But we have not gotten the consistently-sharp "B+" or even "A-" goaltending that this team will need.

OBSERVATIONS:

1. The schedule has not been our friend so far. (Per SS.com, our SOS is #3 as rated by KRACH.) We've played the top of the NCHC (Miami and St Cloud), we've played some tough nonconference games. Now the schedule is about to become our friend. These next six series (WMU, Northern Michigan, CC, Bemidji St, Omaha in GF, Denver) represent a golden opportunity to get on a winning streak. If we're going to compete for an NCAA berth, I think we'll need around 10 wins in those 12 games.

2. February will tell the tale - back to back to back vs Miami, St Cloud and UMD ... present the last good opportunity to cement a solid enough record to get into the NCAA's. Based on NCHC's "mediocre" out of conference results, it may take 20 wins for UND to make the Dance. So winning 3-4 of these is a must.

3. I think the building blocks are here. A regular season title may not be in the cards, but a NCHC-tourney is a definite possibility. But there's no longer room for games that we aren't 100% ready to play, as happened Friday night.

as far as the goaltending goes, I don't think gothberg has been that bad recently other for the sat night against omaha. as far as going 10-2 in their next six series, I think that is a huge stretch considering this team has not put back to back performances together on the same weekend to get a sweep let along have four to five sweeps in the next six series. 6-6 or 7-5 looks more realistic.

[yzerman19]

as far as the goaltending goes, I don't think gothberg has been that bad recently other for the sat night against omaha. as far as going 10-2 in their next six series, I think that is a huge stretch considering this team has put back to back performances together on the same weekend to get a sweep let along have four to five sweeps in the next six series. 6-6 or 7-5 looks more realistic.

6-6

This team just doesn't have the horses

[siouxweet]

6-6

This team just doesn't have the horses

they have horses, they just aren't as good of horses as we originally thought.

[Oxbow6]

6-6

This team just doesn't have the horses

Parks, OD, Mitch really give you very little. Mark is hurt. Rocco and Drake are our best forwards and Drake has been very quiet lately. Chyzyk, Pattyn and Gaarder are all basically the same. The Fr. forwards have done very little although I like Luke a lot. St. Clair is out and Rodwell is a Sr. 4th liner.

There is no Frattin/Malone or Kristo/Knight players on this roster. As a collective group they are decent players but there just isn't enough offensive punch to string together a hot streak especially at the pace they are allowing goals IMO.

[siouxweet]

Parks, OD, Mitch really give you very little. Mark is hurt. Rocco and Drake are our best forwards and Drake has been very quiet lately. Chyzyk, Pattyn and Gaarder are all basically the same. The Fr. forwards have done very little although I like Luke a lot. St. Clair is out and Rodwell is a Sr. 4th liner.

There is no Frattin/Malone or Kristo/Knight players on this roster. As a collective group they are decent players but there just isn't enough offensive punch to string together a hot streak especially at the pace they are allowing goals IMO.

problem is und doesn't have a top line. they have what would be a second line on most teams, a third line and two fourth lines. which will make it very difficult to put a run together. let's keep in mind for those that rely on the second half surge(which happened on a regular basis prior to last season) that the teams that put together those surges had the likes of stafford, zajac, toews, oshie, duncan, frattin, malone and trupp. I don't see the level of any of those players on this squad or last years with all due repsect to kristo and knight.

[The Sicatoka]

This team needs to move:

- Move their feet: I'm so tired of re-e-e-e-eaching for a puck with a stick instead of taking one more stride and sticking their nose where the puck is; and I'm so tired of coasting, instead of skating, when the puck is on their stick; heck, I'm tired of all the feet not moving. Move your feet! SKATE!

- Move the puck: Good grief I'm going to lose my mind if I see another offensive zone draw won back to the point and then sent cross-ice to the other point so that guy can ho-o-o-o-o-old it and allow the defense to stack up in front. Shoot before the defenders can set up! Move the puck around quickly; quit standing around flat-footed with the puck on your stick!

All prior critiques (always RW entry, too much dump) still apply.

[hrkac]

This team needs to move:

- Move their feet: I'm so tired of re-e-e-e-eaching for a puck with a stick instead of taking one more stride and sticking their nose where the puck is; and I'm so tired of coasting, instead of skating, when the puck is on their stick; heck, I'm tired of all the feet not moving. Move your feet! SKATE!

- Move the puck: Good grief I'm going to lose my mind if I see another offensive zone draw won back to the point and then sent cross-ice to the other point so that guy can ho-o-o-o-o-old it and allow the defense to stack up in front. Shoot before the defenders can set up! Move the puck around quickly; quit standing around flat-footed with the puck on your stick!

All prior critiques (always RW entry, too much dump) still apply.

yep

[airmail]

I like that many of the people who complain about UND playing a dump and chase style also complain about poor decisions with the puck. You need guys with skill who make good decisions with the puck to carry the puck into the zone. Dump and chase allows you to get the puck deep into the zone where guys with less skill can try ad win a battle along the boards. It also forces the defenders to turn their backs on incoming forwards. UND has scored a lot of its goals this year on passes from down low to the front of the net. That's what dump and chase is designed to help.

So we should dump it even when we are on a 5 on 3 power play like Friday night?

[siouxweet]

This team needs to move:

- Move their feet: I'm so tired of re-e-e-e-eaching for a puck with a stick instead of taking one more stride and sticking their nose where the puck is; and I'm so tired of coasting, instead of skating, when the puck is on their stick; heck, I'm tired of all the feet not moving. Move your feet! SKATE!

- Move the puck: Good grief I'm going to lose my mind if I see another offensive zone draw won back to the point and then sent cross-ice to the other point so that guy can ho-o-o-o-o-old it and allow the defense to stack up in front. Shoot before the defenders can set up! Move the puck around quickly; quit standing around flat-footed with the puck on your stick!

All prior critiques (always RW entry, too much dump) still apply.

since when do they hold the zone on a consistent basis other than when they are in their own zone and then they couldn't clear it if their scholarship depended on it?

[keikla]

Parks, OD, Mitch really give you very little. Mark is hurt. Rocco and Drake are our best forwards and Drake has been very quiet lately. Chyzyk, Pattyn and Gaarder are all basically the same. The Fr. forwards have done very little although I like Luke a lot. St. Clair is out and Rodwell is a Sr. 4th liner.

There is no Frattin/Malone or Kristo/Knight players on this roster. As a collective group they are decent players but there just isn't enough offensive punch to string together a hot streak especially at the pace they are allowing goals IMO.

I realize that OD isn't exactly the next Kristo. But anyone who was at Saturday's game at BU would disagree with your statement that he 'gives you very little.' OD was absolutely dynamic in that game...you noticed him every single time he stepped on the ice. And he's one of the few guys consistently showing up on the score sheet. This isn't the OD of last year; I think we should give him a little bit more credit.

[LeftyZL]

So we should dump it even when we are on a 5 on 3 power play like Friday night?

Did you see what happened to that said player? 1 player line change at the next whistle. Based on that, I'd call that a player issue, not a coaching philosophy.

[siouxweet]

I realize that OD isn't exactly the next Kristo. But anyone who was at Saturday's game at BU would disagree with your statement that he 'gives you very little.' OD was absolutely dynamic in that game...you noticed him every single time he stepped on the ice. And he's one of the few guys consistently showing up on the score sheet. This isn't the OD of last year; I think we should give him a little bit more credit.

where was that OD this past weekend? it's not just him but the consistancy level on this team is absolutely brutal.

[Oxbow6]

I realize that OD isn't exactly the next Kristo. But anyone who was at Saturday's game at BU would disagree with your statement that he 'gives you very little.' OD was absolutely dynamic in that game...you noticed him every single time he stepped on the ice. And he's one of the few guys consistently showing up on the score sheet. This isn't the OD of last year; I think we should give him a little bit more credit.

Saturday vs BU was one game...his total body of work as a college hockey player suggests otherwise. He is servicable as a role player at best. I was at both games this weekend and he did "little" and he wasn't noticable all weekend.

[I Ranger]

Saturday vs BU was one game...his total body of work as a college hockey player suggests otherwise. He is servicable as a role player at best. I was at both games this weekend and he did "little" and he wasn't noticable all weekend.

Yes he didn't have a good year last year but it is looking like he is going to have to play a top 6 role this year. He is far from our most underwhelming forward to date. This year's forward group is going to have to find their roles and I don't see this team having any chance if Pattyn is one of our top 6 forwards. He is and always will be a third/fourth line penalty kill guy at best and I know he is playing that role due to injury which is why we need to get healthy fast.

[siouxweet]

Yes he didn't have a good year last year but it is looking like he is going to have to play a top 6 role this year. He is far from our most underwhelming forward to date. This year's forward group is going to have to find their roles and I don't see this team having any chance if Pattyn is one of our top 6 forwards. He is and always will be a third/fourth line penalty kill guy at best and I know he is playing that role due to injury which is why we need to get healthy fast.

I said it earlier in a thread but this years team has no top line. the supposed top line would be a second line on most good teams at best.

[keikla]

Saturday vs BU was one game...his total body of work as a college hockey player suggests otherwise. He is servicable as a role player at best. I was at both games this weekend and he did "little" and he wasn't noticable all weekend.

No one was noticeable all weekend (at least in a positive light). He was good as a freshman and good at the beginning of this season. Yes, he needs to work on consistency, as does everyone on the team. But he has the offensive upside to be more than 'a role player at best.'

[scpa0305]

Saturday vs BU was one game...his total body of work as a college hockey player suggests otherwise. He is servicable as a role player at best. I was at both games this weekend and he did "little" and he wasn't noticable all weekend.

I'm agreeing with you. I did not notice OD in the least bit. Last weekend he looked tired, everytime he touched the puch all he wanted to do is get rid of it. Actually I rarely noticed Caggs either (actually since the nice goal and hit against SCSU I haven't noticed him whatsoever). Regarding the top line I only notice Rocco, plain and simple.

[Oxbow6]

No one was noticeable all weekend (at least in a positive light). He was good as a freshman and good at the beginning of this season. Yes, he needs to work on consistency, as does everyone on the team. But he has the offensive upside to be more than 'a role player at best.'

We will have to agree to disagree..."upside" IMO goes out the window when you are in the month of December in your Jr. season.

[airmail]

Did you see what happened to that said player? 1 player line change at the next whistle. Based on that, I'd call that a player issue, not a coaching philosophy.

Fair enough.

But I didn't see it, actually. I was still in facepalm mode.

[yzerman19]

The complete offensive vacuum from the freshman class is also a huge problem. Tambo, Johnson, and Murphy have combined to produce very, very little. Out of the three, worst case we'd expect one to be producing. Best case all three. In reality none are producing.

[hrkac]

The complete offensive vacuum from the freshman class is also a huge problem. Tambo, Johnson, and Murphy have combined to produce very, very little. Out of the three, worst case we'd expect one to be producing. Best case all three. In reality none are producing.

I hope the lightbulb comes on for Murphy soon. He was a scorer in the BCHL, right? He looks to be a subpar skater and obviously has zero confidence right now.

[geaux_sioux]

I hope the lightbulb comes on for Murphy soon. He was a scorer in the BCHL, right? He looks to be a subpar skater and obviously has zero confidence right now.

Really thought he would be better so far