Discontinuing the UND Shuttle Service is a HUGE, UNFORGIVABLE MISTAKE

[Cratter]

I don't think it was me that said UND was exempt from the parking requirements. I'm pretty sure that it was someone else. UND has to follow all zoning and building regulations within the city so it only makes sense that they have to follow parking regulations. All state and county property within the city has to follow city ordinance.

The parking at the Wellness Center, the parking around Albatross and north of Albatross have all been added since the original parking plan was set with the city. The list you posted included the bookstore, Family Practice Center and the strip mall. That's why I said that they may now actually exceed that 2,850 number if they include all of these new spots. If they exceed the required number the city would have trouble forcing UND to continue a shuttle service, especially since UND opened several parking lots much closer than Memorial Stadium since the original plan was set. As I said, UND and REA work directly with the city on these parking issues. REA consulted both the city and UND when they were looking at changing the exit plan for the parking lots this fall.

I don't think you can count the Albatross as that business is now open during game days. And being a private business I'm assuming those spots have to be counted for that restaurant otherwise theyd be double counting the spots or albatross would probably be in viation for not enough parking for its clients.

The city counted the bookstore etc but those are spots are "UND" oriented too....but you can't actually park there for hockey can you? So not sure how they can get counted? I wonder with no shuttle and no "Gameday" parking at the bookstore if he city decided to review the ordinance they'd be in violation?

[Cratter]

$10 to park at med school. Same at Wellness and Albatross. $5 at College of Nursing. 17 home games? I count the possibility of 24.

Same price you were paying for the shuttle?

[Cratter]

This is the response I received from the city of Grand Forks dealing with the original parking issue with the Ralph.

"The City and The Ralph came to an agreement through the Detailed Development Plan process that parking would be evaluated a bit differently on the project. The parking requirement for an auditorium is one space per 4 seats. The seating capacity is around 11,400. Therefore the parking requirement is 2,850 for the site. The parking on the site, through shared parking with the bookstore, family practice and other commercial uses around the building, nearly exceeds this amount. In addition, the city required a traffic plan to be completed by a transportation consultant. The intent was to verify that the location of the parking and the affect on the traffic operation plan for the site. UND also identified alternative mode parking (bus pickup locations) on designated lots that provided additional parking for the facility."

So when I said they were given an exemption they were and the city did have the power over the university. Notice the part over the bus picking people up. By stopping the bus service it could be construed that the university is now in violation of their agreement.

The city needs to define "site" otherwise we might as start counting University Gas Station and Simplot while we're at it.

[siouxweet]

I was as up in arms as anyone one here when I found out that they were discontinuing the service. however in having to find another place to park and walk a block and a half it isn't so bad and saves me a few extra bucks onthe weekend of games and my kid enjoys the walk as well. come january it might be a little cold but we'll survive.

[82SiouxGuy]

I don't think you can count the Albatross as that business is now open during game days. And being a private business I'm assuming those spots have to be counted for that restaurant otherwise theyd be double counting the spots or albatross would probably be in viation for not enough parking for its clients.

The city counted the bookstore etc but those are spots are "UND" oriented too....but you can't actually park there for hockey can you? So not sure how they can get counted? I wonder with no shuttle and no "Gameday" parking at the bookstore if he city decided to review the ordinance they'd be in violation?

The bookstore is normally closed during game times. Yes, those spots are used for hockey parking. They are in one of the parking areas for Championship Club members. They are not open for paid parking on a game by game basis. You may be right about the Albatross lot. But they have parking set up right north of Albatross and at Bank Forward.

[YaneA]

I didn't park in the ramp so I did not pay anything to ride the shuttle. My A tag as a UND employee got me space in Memorial Stadium lot. I walked across the skyway and hopped on the shuttle. I have my own personal, whiny, why should anyone else care reasons why the shuttle was a godsend for me. All interest is self-interest. If you didn't need the shuttle before, don't miss it now, I don't expect you to embrace the discontent of those who are put out by the loss of service. My neighbors, also UND employees, never took shuttle but are torqued because, whereas their A tag once allowed them to park for free at Med School, UND is now collecting 10 dollars for that spot. I feel like I've said all this already.

[82SiouxGuy]

$10 to park at med school. Same at Wellness and Albatross. $5 at College of Nursing. 17 home games? I count the possibility of 24.

I don't know why you would pay $10 at the Med School when you can pay $5 at Nursing and across the street at Tabula. Both of those are closer than most of the Med School parking. The ramp was also $10. That included the shuttle ride, but they didn't plan on having people park for free across the street and then ride the shuttle for free. You paid extra for the convenience. You also pay extra at Wellness and Albatross for the convenience of being closer than parking by Nursing and Tabula.

[82SiouxGuy]

The city needs to define "site" otherwise we might as start counting University Gas Station and Simplot while we're at it.

I'm sure that the city has site defined. No one has bothered to go and look up the city ordinance. It should be available at grandforksgov.com, I believe that all city ordinances are available.

[mksioux]

I guess you are wrong according to the city of Grand Forks.

You mean someone posted inaccurate information on siouxsports.com? Shocking! Talk about a HUGE AND UNFORGIVABLE MISTAKE!

I know UND is exempt from a lot of city development requirements. Maybe this wasn't exempt because of the involvement of REA, Inc., which is a nonprofit corporation. Quite frankly, I don't really care enough to research it. Obviously a few people really do care, so I should have just stayed out of it.

As someone who lives in a larger city, I find this entire thread charming. Anyway, carry on....

[Cratter]

I didn't park in the ramp so I did not pay anything to ride the shuttle. My A tag as a UND employee got me space in Memorial Stadium lot. I walked across the skyway and hopped on the shuttle. I have my own personal, whiny, why should anyone else care reasons why the shuttle was a godsend for me. All interest is self-interest. If you didn't need the shuttle before, don't miss it now, I don't expect you to embrace the discontent of those who are put out by the loss of service. My neighbors, also UND employees, never took shuttle but are torqued because, whereas their A tag once allowed them to park for free at Med School, UND is now collecting 10 dollars for that spot. I feel like I've said all this already.

Had I known this I would have been borrowing my moms "A" tag!

[jdub27]

I don't know why you would pay $10 at the Med School when you can pay $5 at Nursing and across the street at Tabula. Both of those are closer than most of the Med School parking. The ramp was also $10. That included the shuttle ride, but they didn't plan on having people park for free across the street and then ride the shuttle for free. You paid extra for the convenience. You also pay extra at Wellness and Albatross for the convenience of being closer than parking by Nursing and Tabula.

Since it was allowed, it wasn't a big deal, but I wonder what the number of riders who parked in the A lot or other areas around the shuttle was vs. those that paid to park in the ramp. As someone stated earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back, there will end up being a fee to park in the ramp and then an additional fee per rider of the shuttle. They could lower the ramp fee to $5 for games and then make up for it with charging a couple bucks per person to ride the shuttle, picking up some revenue from those who park elsewhere and still use it. Don't know if it would work out number-wise but seems like they would end up a little bit ahead of where they were.

[The Sicatoka]

This is the response I received from the city of Grand Forks dealing with the original parking issue with the Ralph.

"The City and The Ralph came to an agreement through the Detailed Development Plan process that parking would be evaluated a bit differently on the project. The parking requirement for an auditorium is one space per 4 seats. The seating capacity is around 11,400. Therefore the parking requirement is 2,850 for the site. The parking on the site, through shared parking with the bookstore, family practice and other commercial uses around the building, nearly exceeds this amount. In addition, the city required a traffic plan to be completed by a transportation consultant. The intent was to verify that the location of the parking and the affect on the traffic operation plan for the site. UND also identified alternative mode parking (bus pickup locations) on designated lots that provided additional parking for the facility."

So when I said they were given an exemption they were and the city did have the power over the university. Notice the part over the bus picking people up. By stopping the bus service it could be construed that the university is now in violation of their agreement.

I find the bolded to be the most factual and most pertinent portion of this entire conversation. The rest to me comes off as, well, ... whiny.

Signed,

A guy who used to use the ramp and shuttles but then did the math a couple years ago and decided to make the donation, get the pass, and take the tax deduction.

[YaneA]

I have already made alternate plans to get to and from the games without the convenience of the shuttle. I refuse to be happy about my new arrangements. Chalk it up to my stubborn, cranky old ladyness. I think discontinuing the shuttle was a Mickey Mouse, penny wise and pound foolish move. My hope is that the shuttle is revived, the Ralph kicks in to help defray some of the operating costs and each person using the shuttle is asked to pay a fair amount for the convenience.

[Cratter]

Having been to the Qwest Center (?) in Omaha, it sure was nice being able to park in a ramp. Walk to my hotel room. Then take the skywalk to the arena. And walk back to the hotel bar never having to go outside!

[Snake]

I didn't park in the ramp so I did not pay anything to ride the shuttle. My A tag as a UND employee got me space in Memorial Stadium lot. I walked across the skyway and hopped on the shuttle.

So, how much additional expense did they incur giving free rides to all the people that weren't paying to park in the ramp, thus contributing to the ramp/shuttle service going into the red and consequently forcing a shutdown?

[Cratter]

In case you haven't read it here's the official "Parking at the Ralph."

http://www.theralph.com/guest-services/parking

[YaneA]

I don't know how many UND employees parked in Memorial and rode the shuttle for free as you put it. Anecdotally, I'd say that each time I got off a standing room only shuttle and walked the skywalk back to the Memorial Stadium lot there may have been a knot of 4-6 people who also got off the same bus I did and went to cars parked in the same lot. I also do not know how many people got out of cars parked in the ramp and took the shuttle. Ridership numbers were not provided. Nor were numbers provided for cars parked in ramp.

[smokey the cat]

I have already made alternate plans to get to and from the games without the convenience of the shuttle. I refuse to be happy about my new arrangements. Chalk it up to my stubborn, cranky old ladyness. I think discontinuing the shuttle was a Mickey Mouse, penny wise and pound foolish move. My hope is that the shuttle is revived, the Ralph kicks in to help defray some of the operating costs and each person using the shuttle is asked to pay a fair amount for the convenience.

Why don't you call UND and as them for a complete financial rundown. It is a public record.

[gfhockey]

so let me gt this strate

just watch thru these doors

we don't have enough money for shuttles on game nights

but we have a enough for a couple of empty passenger busses just with the stoarage filled of hockey equipment to buss down for road trips while the teams flies lmao

too funny.

[smokey the cat]

so let me gt this strate

just watch thru these doors

we don't have enough money for shuttles on game nights

but we have a enough for a couple of empty passenger busses just with the stoarage filled of hockey equipment to buss down for road trips while the teams flies lmao

too funny.

I wonder though if it is cheaper to ship the equipment this way and then have the bus for use when they get to their destination? I was wondering that last week when they flew an rj200 to Ohio (flight tracker.com). It might not have been their plane though. No way would all the equipment been able to fit on the plane. Now if they chartered a Sun Country or Allegiant plane it would fit. But that would cost a lot more than an rj.

[brianvf]

so let me gt this strate

just watch thru these doors

we don't have enough money for shuttles on game nights

but we have a enough for a couple of empty passenger busses just with the stoarage filled of hockey equipment to buss down for road trips while the teams flies lmao

too funny.

Conspiracy.

[fightingsioux4life]

Careful. You have a tendency to be harsh to anyone who has opinions different from yours. If you are going to demand that you be allowed to state your viewpoints, you have to allow others to state theirs as well, even if you disagree. Opinions that are different than yours aren't necessarily wrong (even if they belong to the "duckies and bunnies crowd").

Just sayin'

People can disagree all they want with what I post. I honestly quit caring about that a long time ago. What I have a problem with are certain individuals who are determined to establish litmus tests as to what is and is not appropriate to discuss on a discussion forum. If these individuals don't have a desire to discuss this or any other issue people bring up, then they shouldn't post on here while they complain about people posting on here! You see the paradox at work here?

Basically, I just call out BS when I see it and/or smell it. And that is what drives certain people on here crazy. As for me being "harsh", I don't call people names, I don't threaten people and I do acknowledge those that make a good point about something. And I also have said many times that I will gladly come on here and admit I am wrong if one of my predictions or opinions is proven false.

Just sayin'

[fightingsioux4life]

Why hurt the little guy buying concessions for their kids?

I think the past 12 years have proven that people will fork over $20 to $25/night for concession items and not think twice about it. Will they even notice that $1 has been added to the prices? I would not mind contributing to parking improvements at REA and I think everyone that has a stake in this should contribute something. Shared responsibility builds gratitude.

[fightingsioux4life]

As I stated in an earlier post, retail businesses have to make parking part of their overhead. You can buy the same product in many different places. If Walmart wanted to charge for parking, Target would have free parking and take all of the customers. How many other places are offering UND hockey live and in person? Not exactly the same, is it?

I was using exaggeration as a tool to make a point. A little over the top? Yeah, but sometimes that is what works best to drive a point home.

Have you been to Xcel? They don't have any parking dedicated to the Xcel Energy Center. They share a ramp with the convention center, it's even named after the convention center. Even if there is nothing happening at the convention center or anywhere else downtown, that ramp will not handle even half of the crowd for a hockey game. On the Xcel Energy Center web site they recommend 10 other ramps, some of them more than 5 blocks away. None of those ramps provide shuttle service to the arena. Most of them charge more than any of the parking lots around the REA, and those are the furthest away. I have paid $20 for the convention center ramp and $30 for a surface lot west of Xcel. Even the ramp at UND is within the same distance as the recommended parking ramps for Xcel and you can find plenty of parking closer to REA than that.

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter if that ramp is "dedicated" to the X; the point is that it's available for events such as the WCHA Final Five (in its pre-cannibalized form). In all the years I went to the Final Five at the X, I would get there 30 minutes before game time and I could get an open spot in the ramp. Sure, it was a long walk up to street level, but it was right across the street from the arena. This could have been dealt with when REA was built because in 2001 there was still a lot of green space around the arena. But we can't go back in time, so we have to deal with this situation as it is now.

UND is still growing the program to where it is going to be. You don't get everything overnight. UND is not going to be Texas or Ohio State.

Whoa, we went from shuttles for home hockey games to the idea of becoming "Texas or Ohio State". Talk about thread drift.

I agree with you on the fact that "you don't get everything overnight". I care much more about the long-term than the short-term. But little things like this add up over time. Being penny-wise and pound-foolish about providing a minor convenience for the best fans in the country (my opinion and I am sticking to it) that will generate goodwill and a positive profile for the institution as a whole is not a step in the right direction. My concern is that we will use this same approach to other things and develop a reputation for being cheap. I do like Brian Faison, but I have some serious reservations about President Kelley's viewpoint on what he thinks athletics contributes to the institution as a whole. I think our athletic department could become the greatest marketing tool in our toolbox, but if the President is not on board with that vision, it won't matter what we or Faison or the coaches think.

And those are the reasons for my rantings and ravings, a concern for the future of UND. Just my 2 cents.

[jdub27]

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter if that ramp is "dedicated" to the X; the point is that it's available for events such as the WCHA Final Five (in its pre-cannibalized form). In all the years I went to the Final Five at the X, I would get there 30 minutes before game time and I could get an open spot in the ramp. Sure, it was a long walk up to street level, but it was right across the street from the arena. This could have been dealt with when REA was built because in 2001 there was still a lot of green space around the arena. But we can't go back in time, so we have to deal with this situation as it is now.

You mean kind of like showing up early for a hockey game and parking across the street in the residential areas? And as for that green space, it is what is left of the minimal available area on and around campus. I'd rather they be putting up a brand new medical school northeast of the Ralph rather than it be a parking ramp, but that is just me.