Buy or Sell 2013

[zonadub]

Meanwhile, back on topic:

Buy or sell this recruiting class getting a big bump by the IPF being underway. No longer is it just a plan for 'the future'.

Sell. Too late to impact this year's recruiting class - it is already on the books. 2014 Class is another story - Buy that one.

Buy or Sell - Defense gives up more yards rushing than passing.

[UNDBIZ]

Buy or Sell - Defense gives up more yards rushing than passing.

I'm going to sell on that, not because I believe our rushing defense will be greatly improved, but just because of the types of offenses in the Big Sky.

[geaux_sioux]

Meanwhile, back on topic:

Sell. Too late to impact this year's recruiting class - it is already on the books. 2014 Class is another story - Buy that one.

Buy or Sell - Defense gives up more yards rushing than passing.

I'm talking the 2014 class since as you said the 2013 class is in the books.

[Matt]

It's all about the defense next year. The offense will be fine.

What constitutes "fine" for a QB that hasn't played in a game since high school? A freshman that plays .500 ball in this conference is "fine" to me.

Some are thinking a conference title shot this year (I'm not saying you feel that way). That seems a lot more than "fine" to me.

[darell1976]

I'm going to sell on that, not because I believe our rushing defense will be greatly improved, but just because of the types of offenses in the Big Sky.

I agree with that.

[jdub27]

What constitutes "fine" for a QB that hasn't played in a game since high school? A freshman that plays .500 ball in this conference is "fine" to me.

Some are thinking a conference title shot this year (I'm not saying you feel that way). That seems a lot more than "fine" to me.

I agree. The QB play could end up being "fine" but that would be a long way off from what it was last year. I think the QB position could fall from anywhere to below average to excellent, but it is the huge question mark that gives me some reservations on making predictions for the coming year.

[UNDColorado]

I agree. The QB play could end up being "fine" but that would be a long way off from what it was last year. I think the QB position could fall from anywhere to below average to excellent, but it is the huge question mark that gives me some reservations on making predictions for the coming year.

Agreed, predicting QB play right now is a crap shoot. I am optimistic that improved line play and our proven receivers should help take a load off of the QB's shoulders. In the spring game we saw receivers make catches on over or under thrown balls, which is a good sign but it wasn't a real game so any guess is as good as mine.

At this point I am more worried about stopping the run than our offense.

[Irish]

They replaced their DC after a poor defensive year but didn't fire their head coach and it worked out well. We have a new DC...... just sayin. And no I'm not delusional. Just because the fans are not patient doesn't mean the admin aren't.

If Muss was the coach at NDSU during their transition and beginning of DI and he had the exact same record as he does here how do you think he would fare. At 28-26 no way he would still be around, let alone having fans saying that if he could only go 7-4 this year he deserves a long term extension. Although we have definately made improvements, our defense last year and the fact that we didn't belong on the same field as the big boys (Eastern Washington and Montana State) would not be well received. In my opinion, UND has been very patient so far with Muss. I feel that he needs to show us something this year - A signature win perhaps, or at least 7-4. In addition, we need to look like the Fighting Sioux and not get our butts handed to us by anyone.

[geaux_sioux]

If Muss was the coach at NDSU during their transition and beginning of DI and he had the exact same record as he does here how do you think he would fare. At 28-26 no way he would still be around, let alone having fans saying that if he could only go 7-4 this year he deserves a long term extension. Although we have definately made improvements, our defense last year and the fact that we didn't belong on the same field as the big boys (Eastern Washington and Montana State) would not be well received. In my opinion, UND has been very patient so far with Muss. I feel that he needs to show us something this year - A signature win perhaps, or at least 7-4. In addition, we need to look like the Fighting Sioux and not get our butts handed to us by anyone.

Would this hypothetical situation include the nickname situation?

[Irish]

Would this hypothetical situation include the nickname situation?

Only if you need to use it as an excuse

[geaux_sioux]

Only if you need to use it as an excuse

Because it had no affect on recruiting and fund raising and scheduling?

[darell1976]

Muss has been through a lot with transition (2008-2011), and the nickname issue (2008-2012), now no transition, no nickname issue its all football and only football. Lets see what he does with a non distracting recruiting class and team.

[UNDBIZ]

I can accept that the nickname made scheduling certain teams difficult, however, it is a completely overused excuse in regards to the struggles of the football program. The nickname didn't cause us to lose to Sioux Falls or put up duds against EWU and MSU last year. In my opinion the Sioux Falls game is still one of the big reasons fans quit going to games.

[darell1976]

I can accept that the nickname made scheduling certain teams difficult, however, it is a completely overused excuse in regards to the struggles of the football program. The nickname didn't cause us to lose to Sioux Falls or put up duds against EWU and MSU last year. In my opinion the Sioux Falls game is still one of the big reasons fans quit going to games.

I think a lot of things caused fans to quit going to games. No NDSU, SDSU, (teams we played for 50-100 years), no playoffs after 2007, losing to Sioux Falls, and having a 3-8 record in 2010. Beating Montana last season was a good step, and that's why UND needs to beat big name schools like EWU, UM, and MSU to get the butts back into the seats.

[Bison06]

Muss has been through a lot with transition (2008-2011), and the nickname issue (2008-2012), now no transition, no nickname issue its all football and only football. Lets see what he does with a non distracting recruiting class and team.

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

[jdub27]

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

I think the cupboard was left a lot more bare when Muss took the reins than most people realized. Top that off with going into transition and the nickname issue doesn't lead to a lot of success. I think he has a year or two left to prove himself, especially now that there is no other "excuses" but time is running much shorter.

[darell1976]

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

Early troubles could be with Lennon's DII players as they filtered out the team did get better. Now as UND is in a better conference the talent will get better. I think after this year or even next season we will see where this team is headed.

[UNDBIZ]

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

Are you basing this on Darell's AGS posts or the guy (can't remember his name) on bville?

[geaux_sioux]

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

There was not a whole lot of talent left from Lennon. Chappell leaving the team was a huge blow as was Stroup talent wise. Same with Bamba and others. It took a while to catch up at WR and we're still looking for some dudes at RB ( maybe Sparks and Shags?) and some CBs for God's sake. At QB we had not a who lot compared to the past and the defense was pretty in athletic with a few exceptions. Mussman didn't inherit a bountiful talent pool like Bohl. He didn't win with his own players until Jensens fr year.

Back on topic. Winning the great west in 2011 was a masterful coaching job because offense had almost no talent outside of the young WRs. The talent was in place on offense last year but obviously the defense had holes and tons of injuries. I know there will be a fr qb next year but the defense will be markedly improved and the offense will be more balanced but still potent.

[darell1976]

Are you basing this on Darell's AGS posts or the guy (can't remember his name) on bville?

I never said anything like that on this board or AGS.

[Irish]

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

Interesting observation - maybe because this is a Sioux board - I think it is clear NDSU has an edge in talent right now. We have a couple of highly touted classes on the young end and maybe that is where the optimism comes from. Hopefully, in a couple of years we will catch up or be ahead. I think it is harder for the casual fan to evaluate talent than it is to look at the game plan. For example, no way Sioux Falls had more talent - we just plain got outcoached. I think from watching last year's team both lines and our entire defense needs a talent upgrade. However, quarterback and receivers were outstanding. The talk in the section that I sit in was more about schemes than talent. For example, we knew our defense was not well stocked, but most of the complaints were about horrible fundamentals like tackling and how far off our corners played. In addition, Muss has not shown himself to be a good clock manager. These things are very obvious at gametime. The general feeling is that we have some great talent, but that it is young. We shall see. I think in two years, Sioux fans would be more than happy to have a talent debate.

Now that I have you here as an "impartial" judge - how well do you think Muss's record and career would have been received at NDSU - would he still be there? Geaux Sioux and I have been having a debate - he maintains NDSU is a patient program because of the stability of the coaching situations - I think there is tremendous pressure to produce and little margin for error. The stability comes from having a good program.

[UNDBIZ]

I never said anything like that on this board or AGS.

Sorry, I'm fairly new to AGS so I didn't know what's been posted there in the past.

[Bison06]

Interesting observation - maybe because this is a Sioux board - I think it is clear NDSU has an edge in talent right now. We have a couple of highly touted classes on the young end and maybe that is where the optimism comes from. Hopefully, in a couple of years we will catch up or be ahead. I think it is harder for the casual fan to evaluate talent than it is to look at the game plan. For example, no way Sioux Falls had more talent - we just plain got outcoached. I think from watching last year's team both lines and our entire defense needs a talent upgrade. However, quarterback and receivers were outstanding. The talk in the section that I sit in was more about schemes than talent. For example, we knew our defense was not well stocked, but most of the complaints were about horrible fundamentals like tackling and how far off our corners played. In addition, Muss has not shown himself to be a good clock manager. These things are very obvious at gametime. The general feeling is that we have some great talent, but that it is young. We shall see. I think in two years, Sioux fans would be more than happy to have a talent debate.

Now that I have you here as an "impartial" judge - how well do you think Muss's record and career would have been received at NDSU - would he still be there? Geaux Sioux and I have been having a debate - he maintains NDSU is a patient program because of the stability of the coaching situations - I think there is tremendous pressure to produce and little margin for error. The stability comes from having a good program.

This is exactly what I was getting at. The criticism of the team from my perspective has been lack of fundamentals, which falls directly under coaching. Yet, many in this thread are saying "wait until Muss gets his guys". I don't get it. It doesn't matter if you have Ray Lewis playing middle linebacker, if you don't get him in the right defensive set and give him the proper keys, he looks like a pop warner guy.

I hope we can agree that NDSU has been well coached the entire time under Coach Bohl. Yes they've had some down seasons, but even in the down years, we were in every game(I don't subscribe to moral victories. Different than acknowledging NDSU playing well and still losing) due to NDSU's great discipline and fundamentals.

I am of the opinion that a well coached team will appear well coached even if they have less talent. SIU is a great example under Lennon. They have been poor in the win loss column, but if you watch them play you KNOW they are a well-coached hard nosed team.

Upgrading talent doesn't put you in the right defense, it doesn't make game day decisions and/or halftime adjustments.

I am just curious why UND fans seem to be so understanding of the lack of great football in Grand Forks recently by saying "wait til we have better talent".

To answer your question, I believe that Mussman would have been gone after last season if he were at NDSU. It makes sense to ride someone out through the transition, but to get blown out by the class of the Big Sky like that, would not have been acceptable. IMO.

[airmail]

This is exactly what I was getting at. The criticism of the team from my perspective has been lack of fundamentals, which falls directly under coaching. Yet, many in this thread are saying "wait until Muss gets his guys". I don't get it. It doesn't matter if you have Ray Lewis playing middle linebacker, if you don't get him in the right defensive set and give him the proper keys, he looks like a pop warner guy...........................................

I agree with pretty much your entire post. I'm tired of "waiting for the talent" to arrive to have a successful season. That's just BS.

I'm not a tremendous Mussman fan - not a real secret - so maybe I'm unjustifiably looking for more accountability from him. Regardless, we changed up the DC after a pitiful defensive showing last season (even though we hired from within once again ) so maybe that accountibility with the coaches is starting to emerge.

[darell1976]

Sorry, I'm fairly new to AGS so I didn't know what's been posted there in the past.

No problem, I have seen guys post a comparison of schools and positions its hard to think we match up to them when we don't play them, and they are #1 and we are looking to be over .500 in the BSC. But if we meet in the playoffs then let's have it out on the field and not on the Internet.