Time to Fire Dave Hakstol....

[HockeyisGr8]

If you knew it was a guarantee to win a NC in 2019 and that UND would be a .500 team and miss the NCAA playoffs for the next 5 years prior to the NC, would you be ok sitting around and waiting for that or would you prefer to watch a team that competes at a high level every year and is in the mix for a NC every year?

No contest for me. I would prefer a 1 NC every 6 years and missing the NCAA's in the other years as opposed to being in the NCAA's every year and not winning any NC's over that same 6 year period.

And not making the NCAA's doesn't mean you can't be competitive and entertaining. For example, I thought CC was competitive and entertaining this year (they beat us three times I believe; I thought UNO was competitive and entertaining; I thought BU was competitive and entertaining (they split with us).

Talk to Twins fans you will find the same discussion. Some are happy as can be to have the 2 world series titles in 26 years or whatever and several years of mediocrity in between and some want to be competitive every year and don't care about the world series titles. Opinions differ. In my case I want brag about my squad winning it all, and not about them just being there.

[siouxu31]

No contest for me. I would prefer a 1 NC every 6 years and missing the NCAA's in the other years as opposed to being in the NCAA's every year and not winning any NC's over that same 6 year period.

And not making the NCAA's doesn't mean you can't be competitive and entertaining. For example, I thought CC was competitive and entertaining this year (they beat us three times I believe; I thought UNO was competitive and entertaining; I thought BU was competitive and entertaining (they split with us).

Talk to Twins fans you will find the same discussion. Some are happy as can be to have the 2 world series titles in 26 years or whatever and several years of mediocrity in between and some want to be competitive every year and don't care about the world series titles. Opinions differ. In my case I want brag about my squad winning it all, and not about them just being there.

I will try make the question easier to understand. Would you rather:

A.) Be guaranteed a NC in 2019 and miss the NCAA tourney in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 while having a .500 team that finishes middle of the pack in the league.

B.) Consistently be in the top or at the very top of the league every year, win league tourneys, and make the NCAA tournament in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 with a chance (but no guarantee)of winning a title or multiple titles in that span.

[MafiaMan]

I will try make the question easier to understand. Would you rather:

A.) Be guaranteed a NC in 2019 and miss the NCAA tourney in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 while having a .500 team that finishes middle of the pack in the league.

B.) Consistently be in the top or at the very top of the league every year, win league tourneys, and make the NCAA tournament in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 with a chance (but no guarantee)of winning a title or multiple titles in that span.

If you choose A, get set for years of sagging attendance, lackluster community and fan support, loss of corporate sponsorship money, etc. It'd be like old REA circa 1990-1995.

[siouxweet]

let's remember this, there are 59 teams in college hockey and only 1 of them gets to end their season with a wn. that means 58 other teams seasons' end in disappointment. option B gives us the opportunity every year to be that one team that ends their season with a win, doesn't mean it is always going to happen or will happen. but we have the chance to do it.

[MafiaMan]

let's remember this, there are 59 teams in college hockey and only 1 of them gets to end their season with a wn. that means 58 other teams seasons' end in disappointment. option B gives us the opportunity every year to be that one team that ends their season with a win, doesn't mean it is always going to happen or will happen. but we have the chance to do it.

Whatever. We're North Dakota. We have the best fans and the grandest arena ever. I've never even heard of schools like Union, Yale, or Quinnipiac until two weeks ago. We're SUPPOSED to win a title every other year, at least. Anything less is a total failure. I'd rather go thru 19 years of watching a totally sucky team followed by 1 championship season than have a shot at being a national champion and risk disappointment for 10 years straight. Who's with me?

[siouxu31]

let's remember this, there are 59 teams in college hockey and only 1 of them gets to end their season with a wn. that means 58 other teams seasons' end in disappointment. option B gives us the opportunity every year to be that one team that ends their season with a win, doesn't mean it is always going to happen or will happen. but we have the chance to do it.

Amen.

The consistently good hockey that Hak has produced in his 9 years have gotten me through 9 winters by looking forward to every Friday and Saturday night. I am just as bummed as anyone else when UND doesn't win the final game of the year, but I wouldn't trade being entertained for 6 months a year and consistently being in the hunt for a national championship every year for one great season coupled with 5 seasons of hockey that fall well below the standard that UND has set for itself.

[siouxu31]

Whatever. We're North Dakota. We have the best fans and the grandest arena ever. I've never even heard of schools like Union, Yale, or Quinnipiac until two weeks ago. We're SUPPOSED to win a title every other year, at least. Anything less is a total failure. I'd rather go thru 19 years of watching a totally sucky team followed by 1 championship season than have a shot at being a national champion and risk disappointment for 10 years straight. Who's with me?

If you haven't heard of Union, Yale, or Quinnipiac until two weeks ago, you must not follow much college hockey. Quinnipiac has basically been number 1 all year long. Union made the frozen four last year as a #1 seed (#3 overall in the tourney) and were a #2 seed in the tourney the year before. Yale was the #1 seed overall in 2011 and in 2010 took UND down in the first round of the NCAA before they battled with BC to a 9-7 defeat in the regional final (by far BC's toughest game of that tourney). BC went on to blow out both RIT and WIsco that year in the frozen four.

[MafiaMan]

If you haven't heard of Union, Yale, or Quinnipiac until two weeks ago, you must not follow much college hockey. Quinnipiac has basically been number 1 all year long. Union made the frozen four last year as a #1 seed (#3 overall in the tourney) and were a #2 seed in the tourney the year before. Yale was the #1 seed overall in 2011 and in 2010 took UND down in the first round of the NCAA before they battled with BC to a 9-7 defeat in the regional final (by far BC's toughest game of that tourney). BC went on to blow out both RIT and WIsco that year in the frozen four.

If you haven't heard of sarcasm, you must not follow siouxsports.com much.

BC led Yale 2-1 after 1 period and held a 6-2 lead in the 2nd before two late goals got Yale within 2 again at 6-4. BC promptly scored 3 straight in the 3rd to open up a 9-4 lead. Yale scored 3 straight goals of their own starting at about 13:00 into the 3rd period and ending with about 1:30 left in the game to make the final 9-7. I don't think BC was really 'battled' the way you felt they were.

[siouxu31]

If you haven't heard of sarcasm, you must not follow siouxsports.com much.

BC led Yale 2-1 after 1 period and held a 6-2 lead in the 2nd before two late goals got Yale within 2 again at 6-4. BC promptly scored 3 straight in the 3rd to open up a 9-4 lead. Yale scored 3 straight goals of their own starting at about 13:00 into the 3rd period and ending with about 1:30 left in the game to make the final 9-7. I don't think BC was really 'battled' the way you felt they were.

You should have just copied and pasted the box score you just read that all from rather than waste all the time looking back and forth while you wrote that. My bad, i guess a two goal lead with 1:30 to play is not a close game and is insurmountable even though the team trailing just rattled off three goals. Oh wait, wasn't BU down by 2 goals with less than a minute to play the year before versus Miami in the NC and came back and won?

Anyways...... my point was that Yale has competed well at the national level the last few years along with Union. All three of those schools have proved themselves to be relevant in the college hockey world. Its no longer a national title thats up for grabs between Hockey East, the WCHA, and the (now former) CCHA. That last few years have shown that any team, from any conference, can win the tourney even if they back into one of the last at-large bids of the tournament. Its all about getting in and finding your mojo once you get there.

[MafiaMan]

You should have just copied and pasted the box score you just read that all from rather than waste all the time looking back and forth while you wrote that. My bad, i guess a two goal lead with 1:30 to play is not a close game and is insurmountable even though the team trailing just rattled off three goals. Oh wait, wasn't BU down by 2 goals with less than a minute to play the year before versus Miami in the NC and came back and won?

Anyways...... my point was that Yale has competed well at the national level the last few years along with Union. All three of those schools have proved themselves to be relevant in the college hockey world. Its no longer a national title thats up for grabs between Hockey East, the WCHA, and the (now former) CCHA. That last few years have shown that any team, from any conference, can win the tourney even if they back into one of the last at-large bids of the tournament. Its all about getting in and finding your mojo once you get there.

You completely missed my sarcastic post. I've followed college hockey for over 25 years...my comments were meant in complete jest.

As for the two games you referenced, the Yale/BC game and the BU/Miami game...yea, I know...I watched 'em both. And I agree with everything you wrote in your second paragraph. I guess you have missed most of my comments on this subject on this thread. We're on the same team.

[watchmaker49]

You should have just copied and pasted the box score you just read that all from rather than waste all the time looking back and forth while you wrote that. My bad, i guess a two goal lead with 1:30 to play is not a close game and is insurmountable even though the team trailing just rattled off three goals. Oh wait, wasn't BU down by 2 goals with less than a minute to play the year before versus Miami in the NC and came back and won?

Anyways...... my point was that Yale has competed well at the national level the last few years along with Union. All three of those schools have proved themselves to be relevant in the college hockey world. Its no longer a national title thats up for grabs between Hockey East, the WCHA, and the (now former) CCHA. That last few years have shown that any team, from any conference, can win the tourney even if they back into one of the last at-large bids of the tournament. Its all about getting in and finding your mojo once you get there.

He really was probably quoting from memory. MafiaMan knows what he is saying. Well except for picking Mass-Lowell..

[yzerman19]

I will try make the question easier to understand. Would you rather:

A.) Be guaranteed a NC in 2019 and miss the NCAA tourney in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 while having a .500 team that finishes middle of the pack in the league.

B.) Consistently be in the top or at the very top of the league every year, win league tourneys, and make the NCAA tournament in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 with a chance (but no guarantee)of winning a title or multiple titles in that span.

Seeing that there are no guarantees in life or sport, I take B. You have to get there in order to have a shot. Entertaining hockey with the legitimate possibility of winning it all every April- that's what life is like as a Sioux fan.

[MafiaMan]

He really was probably quoting from memory. MafiaMan knows what he is saying. Well except for picking Mass-Lowell..

[Irish]

Absolutely no reason why we can't be a top team every year and still win some Nattys - This discussion has turned bizarre. With our tradition and being one of the top two programs for the last 30 years (damn you BC) and having the best facilities and fan support, there is no reason why this shouldn't be an expectation. A better question might be - can we win one without some adjustment to our philosophy? Big smack you in the face defensemen are now getting 5 minute majors for legal hits and the dump chase and cycle seems to be consistantly losing to a faster game. I think Hak is a great hockey mind, but even very smart people can have blind spots. We seem to have the attitude "here's our game, try and stop it". While this works well for the regular season, when we are stopped in the playoffs, we have nothing else. I can see us having continued tourney troubles until we adjust.

[MafiaMan]

Absolutely no reason why we can't be a top team every year and still win some Nattys. With our tradition and being one of the top two programs for the last 30 years (damn you BC) and having the best facilities and fan support, there is no reason why this shouldn't be an expectation.

I've yet to meet a fan who had a direct impact on an NCAA tournament or championship game. I think the fan aspect is a bit over-rated.

Ask one of the Yale kids what his goal is and the reply is likely to be 'to win an NCAA title.'

Ask a Minnesota or North Dakota kid what his goal is and the likely answer is 'to make the NHL.'

That's my two cents.

[Irish]

I've yet to meet a fan who had a direct impact on an NCAA tournament or championship game. I think the fan aspect is a bit over-rated.

Ask one of the Yale kids what his goal is and the reply is likely to be 'to win an NCAA title.'

Ask a Minnesota or North Dakota kid what his goal is and the likely answer is 'to make the NHL.'

That's my two cents.

Agree that fans don't directly affect games, but crowd energy can be an intangible. However, I do think having an outstanding fan base helps in recruiting. A visit to the Ralph when it is rocking can't help but impress.

[MafiaMan]

Agree that fans don't directly affect games, but crowd energy can be an intangible. However, I do think having an outstanding fan base helps in recruiting. A visit to the Ralph when it is rocking can't help but impress.

A loud crowd is impressive at Yost...Munn...Mariucci...WIsconsin...BU...BC...Maine...and other places too. Yes, UND's crowd is impressive, but it's not the only loud building around.

The two most impressive crowds I can remember, Sioux or not? 1998 and Michigan's fans at Yost and the 2012 WCHA semi-final against Minnesota at the X. Nothing better than seeing a sea of green in St Paul.

Fire Bob Motzko!

[siouxweet]

Ask one of the Yale kids what his goal is and the reply is likely to be 'to win an NCAA title.'

Ask a Minnesota or North Dakota kid what his goal is and the likely answer is 'to make the NHL.'

That's my two cents.

Bingo. yeah when the kids get here they obviously want to win a NCAA Title, but that isn't the driving force for the majority of kids that come here. look at the two teams playing tomorrow. how many draft picks do they have combined? 7. UND has what 15. big difference in philosophies.

[siouxweet]

A loud crowd is impressive at Yost...Munn...Mariucci...WIsconsin...BU...BC...Maine...and other places too. Yes, UND's crowd is impressive, but it's not the only loud building around.

The two most impressive crowds I can remember, Sioux or not? 1998 and Michigan's fans at Yost and the 2012 WCHA semi-final against Minnesota at the X. Nothing better than seeing a sea of green in St Paul.

Fire Bob Motzko!

the most impressive crowd I have ever been a part of was on a sunday afternoon in 1998 at the old ralph when UND came back from down 3-0 and beat the gophers. wasn't even sellout crowd, but was the loudest I have been a part of at any UND game.

[MafiaMan]

Bingo. yeah when the kids get here they obviously want to win a NCAA Title, but that isn't the driving force for the majority of kids that come here. look at the two teams playing tomorrow. how many draft picks do they have combined? 7. UND has what 15. big difference in philosophies.

Exactly. Hard for a Forbert, Bjugstad, or Haula to focus on a game when there's an NHL contract sitting in the locker room just waiting for a signature the moment the team is eliminated.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

No contest for me. I would prefer a 1 NC every 6 years and missing the NCAA's in the other years as opposed to being in the NCAA's every year and not winning any NC's over that same 6 year period.

And not making the NCAA's doesn't mean you can't be competitive and entertaining. For example, I thought CC was competitive and entertaining this year (they beat us three times I believe; I thought UNO was competitive and entertaining; I thought BU was competitive and entertaining (they split with us).

Talk to Twins fans you will find the same discussion. Some are happy as can be to have the 2 world series titles in 26 years or whatever and several years of mediocrity in between and some want to be competitive every year and don't care about the world series titles. Opinions differ. In my case I want brag about my squad winning it all, and not about them just being there.

The problem with your scenario is that it isn't a sustainable model. A coach or program who misses the tournament 5 out of 6 years but happens to win a title in the other year would be viewed as lucky and the coach would likely be judged more on the down years. Under Hakstol, we've been a contender and had a chance every single year. Just the law of averages says he'll break through and win one eventually, and when he does I get the feeling we could go on a run and win 3 out of 5 or something along those lines. He's too good a coach, too good a recruiter, and has too many resources at his disposal to not eventually get over the hump.

[siouxweet]

The problem with your scenario is that it isn't a sustainable model. A coach or program who misses the tournament 5 out of 6 years but happens to win a title in the other year would be viewed as lucky and the coach would likely be judged more on the down years. Under Hakstol, we've been a contender and had a chance every single year. Just the law of averages says he'll break through and win one eventually, and when he does I get the feeling we could go on a run and win 3 out of 5 or something along those lines. He's too good a coach, too good a recruiter, and has too many resources at his disposal to not eventually get over the hump.

look at coach K at duke. kind of like hak where he was there for the longest time and came close a number of times, finally broke through and now has what won 3 or 4.

[90siouxfan]

I have read about 8 pages today as I had a computer password issue. During this long drive to St. Cloud /MSP for hockey some thoughts occurred to me that I would like to bring to the board. Keep in mind, I am not a great hockey mind, I have only played pick up hockey, but I love the sport and the Fighting Sioux.

Could the Ralph be detrimental? Does the outrageous fan support that they get become noticeably absent at regionals? Might be a stretch, but I wanted to throw it out there.

It has been mentioned that the program has become a stopping ground for NHLers. This makes me wonder if the Yale boys knew deep down that this could be their last hurrah? I am sure our players were focused and knew the season was on the line, but deep down did they feel it?

The game has changed. When I started watching, I heard a lot about them damn east coach refs that wanted "girls" hockey. I heard how tough we are to play against, might have even been called goons. Seem like at all levels of hockey there is a push to make it safer for the players. Could it be that the "east" caught on to this trend before the "west"? Maybe that is why our refs have been so "poor". They are calling the game as they are told, "safer" "girly" or whatever they want to label it, BUT the refs are as old school as the players. They see Mac lay out a player and know the league "powers" or NCAA want it called and go with it?

Dump & Chase, if I am wrong please correct me, is most effective when played with an edge toward violence and hitting. If your players have to watch their hits, then the edge has been dulled. Now if you take it further, are the recruits being asked to change their style from "edgy" to NCAA compliant?

Wish we were playing tomorrow, but I will back UND and the head coach until the dirt lands on my face.

[Goon]

Absolutely no reason why we can't be a top team every year and still win some Nattys - This discussion has turned bizarre. With our tradition and being one of the top two programs for the last 30 years (damn you BC) and having the best facilities and fan support, there is no reason why this shouldn't be an expectation. A better question might be - can we win one without some adjustment to our philosophy? Big smack you in the face defensemen are now getting 5 minute majors for legal hits and the dump chase and cycle seems to be consistantly losing to a faster game. I think Hak is a great hockey mind, but even very smart people can have blind spots. We seem to have the attitude "here's our game, try and stop it". While this works well for the regular season, when we are stopped in the playoffs, we have nothing else. I can see us having continued tourney troubles until we adjust.

Did you guys see how QU and Yale won, they won by playig a physical brand of hockey and being hard to play against.

[Irish]

Did you guys see how QU and Yale won, they won by playig a physical brand of hockey and being hard to play against.

Agreed they played strong and were hard to play against - didn't see a lot of dump, chase, and cycle though