Jump to FBS

[GeauxSioux]

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State have announced they are jumping from FCS to FBS, joining the Sun Belt Conference.

Caillou has a piece in the Forum about it along with takes from Gene Taylor and Brian Faison.... http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/394361/group/Sports/

It’s a strength-of-division departure that could have North Dakota State thinking hard about its FCS standing – if more schools follow suit. For now, athletic director Gene Taylor said the threshold has not been met.

“I don’t know if it’s a number, it’s more about who (leaves),” he said. “I don’t think it’s a problem right now, I still think there’s a lot of strength in the division, but if more programs go, I will get a little concerned."

So what schools would cause concern? What if Delaware and James Madison left? Like Taylor, University of North Dakota athletic director Brian Faison said he could not put a specific number of schools on what it would take, “but it would take some kind of migration. … I think we’ll know it when we see it.”

[choyt3]

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State have announced they are jumping from FCS to FBS, joining the Sun Belt Conference.

Caillou has a piece in the Forum about it along with takes from Gene Taylor and Brian Faison.... http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/394361/group/Sports/

Caillou? LOL

[GeauxSioux]

Caillou? LOL

It struck me once when I saw a picture of him sitting next to Dom.

[UNDvince97-01]

Caillou has a piece in the Forum about it along with takes from Gene Taylor and Brian Faison.... http://www.inforum.c...1/group/Sports/

:lol:

[UND-1]

Caillou? LOL

I am pretty sure that one's gonna stick. Nice work GeauxSioux.

[darell1976]

Problems with moving up for:

NDSU: Conference affiliation. Best hope would be MAC or MW, or else travel would be expensive in the Sun Belt or C-USA. Also scholarship money. More schollies mean more $$$ and the way to get it is up fees and tuition. NDSU can't even close the deal on the SHAC (still 2 million short).

UND: Same problem with conference affiliation (there is no more WAC for football), also need a new stadium either new 20k stadium or remodel Memorial Stadium to fit attendance requirements.

Either way UND's timeline to move up has to be at least 10-20 years away UNLESS the FBS splits into two sub-divisions (BCS in one and the "lower FBS" in another) and maybe the NCAA will remove the attendance requirement in the lower FBS subdivision therefore allowing UND to keep playing in the Alerus. Plus add a damn playoff system like the FCS, DII, DIII, NAIA, etc. This bowl thing has to go.

[bincitysioux]

Looks like Idaho and New Mexico St. will be invited to the Sun Belt for football only.

That's a bummer. Was hoping Idaho would be forced to drop football down to FCS.

New Mexico State, Idaho and Georgia Southern now in play for Sun Belt

[bincitysioux]

Dom Izzo tweeted that both App St. and Georgia Southern will now be ineligible for the FCS playoffs this season.

I think the field is expanding to 24 this year also..............

[The Sicatoka]

Interesting statement from Faison:

Geography played into both (GSU, ASU) schools’ favor – something that NDSU and UND do not currently have going for them. Faison could only guess that the Mid-American Conference may be a possibility should the day come.

“From a financial standpoint, it’s a significant investment,” he said. “At the same time, I can see the benefits of FBS.”

[darell1976]

Interesting statement from Faison:

At least Faison is thinking about the future for UND football. Unlike RT he just looked at DII and only DII.

[zonadub]

Looks like Idaho and New Mexico St. will be invited to the Sun Belt for football only.

That's a bummer. Was hoping Idaho would be forced to drop football down to FCS.

New Mexico State, Idaho and Georgia Southern now in play for Sun Belt

Article is from Nov 2012, but saw a quote from Sun Belt Commissioner Karl Benson this morning on ESPN.com that NMSU and Idaho are being talked about by Sun Belt presidents.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9099719/idaho-vandals-new-mexico-state-aggies-headed-sun-belt-conference-2014-sources-say

[jdub27]

At least Faison is thinking about the future for UND football. Unlike RT he just looked at DII and only DII.

Seems to me both were thinking and looking at the same thing: $$$$$$. At the time, the cost of D-1 was unknown and there was no known conference. The landscape is definitely changing more now so there is a better idea of the costs. On top of that, you can't move up without a conference invite now. Big differences, but both decisions more or less boiled down to the same thing. Money.

That being said, with hind-sight being 20/20, UND should have moved up earlier.

[darell1976]

Seems to me both were thinking and looking at the same thing: $$$$$$. At the time, the cost of D-1 was unknown and there was no known conference. The landscape is definitely changing more now so there is a better idea of the costs. On top of that, you can't move up without a conference invite now. Big differences, but both decisions more or less boiled down to the same thing. Money.

That being said, with hind-sight being 20/20, UND should have moved up earlier.

Here's the million dollar question....if NDSU does an FBS study does UND follow? Or has the "rivalry" especially in football been tainted so much that it doesn't matter anymore, and UND stays in the Big Sky.

[Hambone]

Here's the million dollar question....if NDSU does an FBS study does UND follow? Or has the "rivalry" especially in football been tainted so much that it doesn't matter anymore, and UND stays in the Big Sky.

This is just my opinion, but at the time that NDSU would go (unless we have the complete landscape change with the BCS schools breaking off), I would assume that Montana and Montana State are both going as well, at which point I think you see UND with them. I wouldn't be surprised to see NDSU, UND, Montana and Montana State (with some others possibly) working together on this. Maybe I'm way off, as each school will look out for their best interests, but for whatever reason that's my gut feel.

If you could just create a new conference and be eligible for playoffs right away in every sport, I would love to see a conference with the Montana's, all four Dakota schools, Idaho and Northern Colorado. Since you couldn't pry UNI away from the MVC, don't know who else to include (Omaha and Denver as Olympic sports members, maybe find some football affiliates?). Pipe dream, I know, but it would be a great conference.

[darell1976]

This is just my opinion, but at the time that NDSU would go (unless we have the complete landscape change with the BCS schools breaking off), I would assume that Montana and Montana State are both going as well, at which point I think you see UND with them. I wouldn't be surprised to see NDSU, UND, Montana and Montana State (with some others possibly) working together on this. Maybe I'm way off, as each school will look out for their best interests, but for whatever reason that's my gut feel.

If you could just create a new conference and be eligible for playoffs right away in every sport, I would love to see a conference with the Montana's, all four Dakota schools, Idaho and Northern Colorado. Since you couldn't pry UNI away from the MVC, don't know who else to include (Omaha and Denver as Olympic sports members, maybe find some football affiliates?). Pipe dream, I know, but it would be a great conference.

Only one problem with the Dakota's/Montana's move up plan....all of them except UND has a stadium in compliance with the 15k minimum requirement (which is a joke just look at Eastern Michigan). So maybe after the IPF, they can get some funds and do a study and see if its doable ($$$ wise) and if so maybe upgrade or build a new stadium. But by that time I am sure the FBS format won't look like it does today with everyone playing musical conferences.

[mizzou/sioux]

Seems to me both were thinking and looking at the same thing: $$$$$$. At the time, the cost of D-1 was unknown and there was no known conference. The landscape is definitely changing more now so there is a better idea of the costs. On top of that, you can't move up without a conference invite now. Big differences, but both decisions more or less boiled down to the same thing. Money.

That being said, with hind-sight being 20/20, UND should have moved up earlier.

In defense of former AD Roger Thomas, the UND president at the time, Charles Kupchella, I believe, experienced the transition from a lower division school to an upper division at Southeast Missouri State at Cape Girardeau, Missouri. From what I understand, Dr. Kupchella had serious doubts about SEMO's transition and thus hesitated about making the transition at UND, not that his hesitancy was necessarily a bad thing. Furthermore, Thomas did a wonderful job in resuscitating the football program from the depths in the mid-1980s. People often forget that. We also know a lot more now about the transitioning process--a lot more than we knew way back when. People often forget UND was in the process of adding Division I women's hockey--an expensive sport to add considering Title IX requirements--about the time some NDSU proponents were pushing for Division I status in all sports. The two schools were being faced with differing financial considerations at the time. Was it right for UND to go the way of women's hockey in lieu of upgrading and going to Division I in tandem with NDSU? I believe the answer, especially in view of UND's brilliant showing in the women's NCAA tourney just completed, validates this decision to the nth degree. I also, by the way, think NDSU did the right thing in moving up when it did. Two differing decisions based on what was best for each school at that particular time. I firmly believe Roger Thomas was being a loyal trooper to the overall UND administration at the time and in no way deserves to be stigmatized as he has been for so many years by some vocal advocates of the school to the south. NDSU did what was best at the time for that school; UND looked to its own interests. Both were right for what they did in the ensuing time frame. And I think in the longterm this will be borne out, nattering nabobs of negativism notwithstanding.

[mizzou/sioux]

This is just my opinion, but at the time that NDSU would go (unless we have the complete landscape change with the BCS schools breaking off), I would assume that Montana and Montana State are both going as well, at which point I think you see UND with them. I wouldn't be surprised to see NDSU, UND, Montana and Montana State (with some others possibly) working together on this. Maybe I'm way off, as each school will look out for their best interests, but for whatever reason that's my gut feel.

If you could just create a new conference and be eligible for playoffs right away in every sport, I would love to see a conference with the Montana's, all four Dakota schools, Idaho and Northern Colorado. Since you couldn't pry UNI away from the MVC, don't know who else to include (Omaha and Denver as Olympic sports members, maybe find some football affiliates?). Pipe dream, I know, but it would be a great conference.

Hambone, I think you are absolutely right. Quite a number of years ago, as I recall, there was a mild effort to link together UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, Idaho and Idaho State in an eight-team conference. I imagine increased travel costs played a role in those decisions as well. For the most part the NCC then was more compact and with all the tradition it had going for it, the idea died for lack of support one way or another. I think we're going to have to see how more of this shakes out. We need to see more about what happens with our participation in the Big Sky. I do think we belong in the same conference as Montana and Montana State. However, let's not be hasty. I agree that UNI is unlikely to leave the Missouri Valley.

[jdub27]

Only one problem with the Dakota's/Montana's move up plan....all of them except UND has a stadium in compliance with the 15k minimum requirement (which is a joke just look at Eastern Michigan). So maybe after the IPF, they can get some funds and do a study and see if its doable ($$$ wise) and if so maybe upgrade or build a new stadium. But by that time I am sure the FBS format won't look like it does today with everyone playing musical conferences.

My guess is a minimum capacity requirement is so far down the list of things to consider, it is a non-issue, particularly when looking at what the landscape could and will look like over the next few years. I'm not saying there isn't an important conversation to have regarding football facilities and what UND should do, but I am saying that I wouldn't be concerned about that being an issue in what UND does decide to do.

[choyt3]

It struck me once when I saw a picture of him sitting next to Dom.

http://images.wikia.com/caillou/images/c/c7/Caillou-xl-pictures-12.jpg

[mizzou/sioux]

My guess is a minimum capacity requirement is so far down the list of things to consider, it is a non-issue, particularly when looking at what the landscape could and will look like over the next few years. I'm not saying there isn't an important conversation to have regarding football facilities and what UND should do, but I am saying that I wouldn't be concerned about that being an issue in what UND does decide to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Idaho have problems filling the Kibbie Dome (aka Kibbles 'n Bits, according to my nephew, a University of Idaho graduate) at Moscow, Idaho? I think Idaho has problems fulfilling that average 15,000 so-called required average attendance figure. My guess is that if the conference is viewed as overall stable by the NCAA there could be some things which could be tweaked for the good of the whole.

[The Sicatoka]

I'll say it again: I believe three tiers of DI football are on the horizon.

- today's BCS conferences

- the rest of BCS plus the top of FCS

- all the rest

Were something like that to come to pass, I think you'd see the 15k requirement dialed back to about 10k for the middle tier (or a hard 35k requirement put in to play in the top level).

[darell1976]

I'll say it again: I believe three tiers of DI football are on the horizon.

- today's BCS conferences

- the rest of BCS plus the top of FCS

- all the rest

Were something like that to come to pass, I think you'd see the 15k requirement dialed back to about 10k for the middle tier (or a hard 35k requirement put in to play in the top level).

I agree with this even tweaking the attendance requirements. A lot of teams mostly in the MAC can't get 15,000 so I can't see the NCAA enforcing this in a 3 tier DI.

[82SiouxGuy]

In defense of former AD Roger Thomas, the UND president at the time, Charles Kupchella, I believe, experienced the transition from a lower division school to an upper division at Southeast Missouri State at Cape Girardeau, Missouri. From what I understand, Dr. Kupchella had serious doubts about SEMO's transition and thus hesitated about making the transition at UND, not that his hesitancy was necessarily a bad thing. Furthermore, Thomas did a wonderful job in resuscitating the football program from the depths in the mid-1980s. People often forget that. We also know a lot more now about the transitioning process--a lot more than we knew way back when. People often forget UND was in the process of adding Division I women's hockey--an expensive sport to add considering Title IX requirements--about the time some NDSU proponents were pushing for Division I status in all sports. The two schools were being faced with differing financial considerations at the time. Was it right for UND to go the way of women's hockey in lieu of upgrading and going to Division I in tandem with NDSU? I believe the answer, especially in view of UND's brilliant showing in the women's NCAA tourney just completed, validates this decision to the nth degree. I also, by the way, think NDSU did the right thing in moving up when it did. Two differing decisions based on what was best for each school at that particular time. I firmly believe Roger Thomas was being a loyal trooper to the overall UND administration at the time and in no way deserves to be stigmatized as he has been for so many years by some vocal advocates of the school to the south. NDSU did what was best at the time for that school; UND looked to its own interests. Both were right for what they did in the ensuing time frame. And I think in the longterm this will be borne out, nattering nabobs of negativism notwithstanding.

You are correct on all of these factors. You also need to add a couple of more issues that UND was dealing with at the time. The Flood of 1997 was hard on UND. It cost money and students. In addition, UND was preparing to open 2 new facilities, which created a lot of extra work for the Athletic Department. UND had a lot of issues to deal with at the time NDSU wanted to move up, and UND made the decision to get its' house in order before moving up. That was the right decision for UND. NDSU took more of a leap of faith. They had fewer distractions and outside issues to deal with, so they could take a little more of a risk. The move worked out well for them. In just a few years it will be unimportant who moved up when.

[UNDColorado]

I also believe that a tree tier system is on the horizon. When is anyone's guess but it makes more sense by the day. the mentioned schools above will fit into the second tier and the 15k attendance rule will not be enforced. Let's face it; schools like Idaho will never compete with Texas.

Before any of this happens we need to do a few things:

1) get the IPF Built

2) recruiting has been good but keep getting better

3) Look into stadium upgrades / gameday experience

4) A little more money pumped into the program will go a long way (coaches pay, uniforms, etc)

We certainly have a long way to go but it is not out of the realm of possibility.

[GeauxSioux]

http://images.wikia....pictures-12.jpg

I rest my case.... http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/2013/03/26/bison-video-blog-fcs-to-fbs/