Student attendance thoughts and How to Fix it

[geaux_sioux]

Figured it was time I jumped on here and post a response – just a little delayed from waiting for the mod approval to post. My name is David Primus and I am the Director of Marketing for UND Athletics. I’ve been here in GF just over a year now, coming from Indiana, but I’m truly “from” Wyoming. Part of the reason why I was excited to take a job here is the passionate fan base that UND has. It’s great to have such a dedicated fan base and I hope this post can bring some information and help to the topic at hand.

Last year I came in mid-season so this was our first real chance to focus on students. Student attendance at this point is up approx. 30% from last year (2012 avg: 1987- although only 1100 at Montana….2011 avg: 1387….2010 avg: 1467). Certainly the Big Sky and stronger opponents has helped, but I must also credit the Residence Halls (ARH and their affiliated staff), UND Student Ambassadors as well as the Greek community for buying in and helping to make tailgating and games a bigger deal to students this year. Each has played a significant role in getting more involved on gamedays. I was told the Homecoming tailgate was the biggest in years (from a student perspective) and we’ve had some good success in “reserving” student tailgating spots for groups from the residence halls and Greek community who commit to coming to every game. Their willingness to see the big picture and what's possible long-term has certainly helped.

In addition to working direct with groups, I feel we do a lot to get students to the game. Between on-campus promotion, free tickets, free tailgating (first 250ish to pick up a pass), free shuttle (moved from Chester Fritz to front of Wilkerson), free food at 3 games (Thanks Texas Roadhouse!), rally towel & shirt giveaways, and more – we’ve definitely taken a step forward this year. No doubt there’s more work to do though. For what it’s worth, I feel like some of the suggestions floating around we have already implemented, but it may take some time to take root and grow. There were also many ideas we had this year that we didn’t have a chance to implement and hope to in the future (and we sure wish the Helmet car had been operable prior to last week). Even better, it's great to see some feedback from students on this thread.

For the person who posted about the friend who didn’t get a pass from the union beforehand for tailgating and ended up paying $15 – please realize that we control the student tailgating lot passes, the Alerus Center controls the rest. I don’t think it’s that much to ask to pick up the pass early in the week (we do provide them free after all). The simple/general rule this year – pick up before gameday and ticket/tailgating are free – pick up on gameday and you may end up paying for a ticket and/or tailgating.

We’ve also made some strides in-game, but have a LONG way to go. We have a vision of what we want UND Football to be in-game, and while this year has been a significant step forward, there is much work to be done. No doubt the audio/visual side of things is the most apparent (*ahem* louder). And while some people cherish the idea of outdoor games, there are many advantages to being inside besides climate control – we need to exploit these advantages. Yell leaders are new for us and it was a decent start – we’ve learned a lot and now will have 9 months to plan and improve.

No doubt the Montana game was frustrating. We felt we put a good amount into telling the students how important this game was – in addition to the promo side of things with the Blackout – but it certainly didn’t work as well as we wanted. Obviously there are still some issues including students leaving at halftime (though this is better than last year), a lack of student “unity” (cheering, etc.) and a slow decline of student attendance through the season. We’ll keep after it, but we also know it doesn’t all change in one year.

One thing if I could ask: As some of you have identified, Football seems to get put down by some of our so-called “Hockey only” fans. Please help us to continue to carry the message of the quality of the games, student athletes and event that is UND Football. Football/Tailgating (Gameday) is a completely different experience than Hockey. I don’t expect every UND fan to be a fan of both, but certainly appreciate it when our more passionate fans help to change the conversation. Help us to educate our fan base about the quality of conference we’re in and what teams like Montana, Montana State and E. Washington have done (coincidentally, all 3 on the home schedule next year plus SDSU). The performances put up last week against Montana (a good team no matter their tough season) are a great starting point.

Keep the ideas coming, I watch this forum time to time and Jayson alerts me when ideas come up. For those of you who sent him ideas (from his twitter post), please know that he passed those along to me as well. I’ll try to jump in and provide info when I find time – and respond to any questions in this thread.

Thanks for reading, I look forward the exciting Hockey and Basketball season ahead and the continued growth of UND Football in particular. Let’s show the seniors off with a great crowd next Saturday!

PS - Help us break the all-time Women's Hockey attendance record Saturday against the top-ranked Gophers - 2pm puck drop, $1 tickets for all (students free)!

Thanks for showing that you guys actually care and shedding light on the work you guys have done to step it up.

Do you think the volume issue at the Alerus is a lack of willingness to crank it or just old speakers that can't handle it? Also as far as the intro goes I'm not sure the team really gets amped by the current one, although it is an improvement over older versions. I don't think we should be scared of a little rap for the players to get juiced up with in the intro. Also some smoke outside the helmet with green strobe lights as they walk into the helmet would look awesome. Just show that on the screen with some good music instead of the back in black intro. The intro was improved this year but has a ways to go.

As far as student/ fan participation goes why not have a 'contest' where on each side a third of the sections have a U and then the next sections have an N and then the other group of sections have a D and then have a booming U-------N---------D U-----N-----D U--N--D chant that people could get into. How bout a signature song or two like Wisconsin does with their Jump Around after the 3rd quarter? Dry run at hockey games and carry over to other sports?

Also, do you guys have any influence with the Alerus and their policy to not allow tailgaters to leave at half and come back in? I feel like the students and other fans would love that. Get some good food and something to drink at half and go back in to watch the rest of the game.

I and others loved the UND version of Hard Knocks that you guys did, we wants more..... I realize the limitations of staff but something simple like getting to know position groups and the traditions of each would be a great way to get to know the guys on the team.

What about an all sports pep rally the first week of school at the Betty of the Englestad and show highlights of the previous season and hype the coming seasons for the freshman and other students?

I think just overall making sports like football and basketball seem more 'big time' than the perception is at the time would make it seem worth the students time to check out and get involved in.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Nor any other big school in the country. mg2009 you seem to get the picture that you can not create something that evolves, sorry Mr. Primus, on its own. Mr. Primus you can try all the little promotions that you can think of but it will not work. You can not make something that needs to have its own life.

I think the things Mr Primus mentioned will help create excitement in the interim, and I appreciate the effort. Winning will sustain the excitement. Campfire analogy: Think of the cutsy things mentioned as dropping some newspaper on the fire, it will produce a nice hot flash for a short time, but shortly thereafter, die out. Get a good thick log burning, ie winning seasons, and the sucker will burn a long time!

[mg2009]

I have a thought, maybe the fans who would care about football just started going to NDSU instead? The time frame would be about right. NDSU beat minnesota in 2007, by 2009 our younger students, the current seniors, aren't going to games and we start seeing attendance issues. Probably far from the whole issue, but certainly could play a part.

[JohnboyND7]

Why would the Alerus want to let people leave and then come back in? That would cut their concessions sales.

[geaux_sioux]

Why would the Alerus want to let people leave and then come back in? That would cut their concessions sales.

Opposed to them leaving and not coming back in? Sounds like no difference to me.

[UND1983]

I have a thought, maybe the fans who would care about football just started going to NDSU instead? The time frame would be about right. NDSU beat minnesota in 2007, by 2009 our younger students, the current seniors, aren't going to games and we start seeing attendance issues. Probably far from the whole issue, but certainly could play a part.

Mr. NDSU comes in and says its cause all the football-loving students went there. Sheer genius! I cannot believe UND's enrollment has gone up every year with that going on.

[mg2009]

Mr. NDSU comes in and says its cause all the football-loving students went there. Sheer genius! I cannot believe UND's enrollment has gone up every year with that going on.

I put out a hypothesis. any evidence in favor or against, or are you just going to shitpost?

[geaux_sioux]

I put out a hypothesis. any evidence in favor or against, or are you just going to shitpost?

How bout this for a hypothesis, Fargo/NDSU has always been about football and Grand Forks/UND has been about hockey. Perhaps that along with 5 years of crap in a row would point to the attendance woes?

[mg2009]

How bout this for a hypothesis, Fargo/NDSU has always been about football and Grand Forks/UND has been about hockey. Perhaps that along with 5 years of crap in a row would point to the attendance woes?

I was considering the large number of students that live in minnesota, for whom d2 football was a complete afterthought. If you are unaffiliated with both schools, and pay attention to football, and live in minnesota, one school is going to be much more on your radar than the other. Is it really that ludicrous to suggest that the attention brought to NDSU's team in the mid-aughts would have dis proportionally improved the draw of NDSU for people inclined to be football fans, who would have otherwise been relatively more likely to go to UND?

In a pretty direct way, it does just come back to winning, only the lag-time might be longer for this sort of affect.

[bincitysioux]

David Primus,

Thanks for the post. The thoughts from Athletic Department insiders like Hajdu and yourself are much appreciated.

Regarding in-game stuff, I have a few questions/thoughts................

Why are the pre-game/introductions so much better at REA? Who handles this? Is it University staff at both places? Is it REA staff for hockey and city staff for football? Although this year's pregrame hype at the Alerus is much better than it has been for a couple seasons, it still seems rather "bush-leauge" compared to what takes place at REA. And it is actually a bit too long. They have a nice concept, but it seems to get botched every week whether it be volume issues or PA clarity issues. I do have to say though that I can actually understand what the PA announcer is saying the last two games vs. the first 3 so there has been a positve adjustment there. Is there any reason that those who handle that stuff at REA cannot also do it for football games at the Alerus?

What happened to the fireworks? They used to set a bunch off after touchdowns, but haven't for a couple seasons. Grown men like me could care less, but there are alot of little kids at the games that always enjoy that stuff, and even students too. First thing my 6 year old asked on the way to the home opener this year was "will there be fireworks?" He likes the fireworks at the end of the hockey games...................

In lieu of (or in addition to) fireworks, considering the impact that hockey has on Grand Forks as a whole and especially the University and its students, I think it would be kind of a neat thing if an REA-like goal horn sounded off whenever a touchdown was scored. At the very least, it would be somewhat unique as far as small college football goes......................

This is kind of a nit-picky thing, but 3-4 times a game on the big screen, they advertise the Radio Coach's Show. That is great, but for two seasons now they continue to include Radio Fargo-Moorhead Stations on the list, and a station (720 AM) that does not even exist. UND hasn't been affiliated with those stations for 2 years now. My thought is, if the powers-that-be don't even have enough interest to correct that, I don't have alot of confidence that they really care enough to attempt to correct other issues regarding marketing football. I don't see the point in advertising to fans to tune into stations that don't carry Sioux athletics............

Lastly, and this has nothing to do with attendance or growing interest, but why doesn't the marching band take off their baseball caps during the national anthem?

[watchmaker49]

I have a thought, maybe the fans who would care about football just started going to NDSU instead? The time frame would be about right. NDSU beat minnesota in 2007, by 2009 our younger students, the current seniors, aren't going to games and we start seeing attendance issues. Probably far from the whole issue, but certainly could play a part.

Then you are saying the smarter ones came to UND because they do not like football as much as hockey. ;)

[UND-1]

In lieu of (or in addition to) fireworks, considering the impact that hockey has on Grand Forks as a whole and especially the University and its students, I think it would be kind of a neat thing if an REA-like goal horn sounded off whenever a touchdown was scored. At the very least, it would be somewhat unique as far as small college football goes......................

I like that idea also. The New England Patriots use it on 3rd down to get the fans aware that it is time to get loud.

[SiouxVolley]

One thing if I could ask: As some of you have identified, Football seems to get put down by some of our so-called “Hockey only” fans. Please help us to continue to carry the message of the quality of the games, student athletes and event that is UND Football. Football/Tailgating (Gameday) is a completely different experience than Hockey. I don’t expect every UND fan to be a fan of both, but certainly appreciate it when our more passionate fans help to change the conversation. Help us to educate our fan base about the quality of conference we’re in and what teams like Montana, Montana State and E. Washington have done (coincidentally, all 3 on the home schedule next year plus SDSU). The performances put up last week against Montana (a good team no matter their tough season) are a great starting point.

As soon as David makes this request, then watchmaker does the exact opposite of what he requested. I wish this forum would ban watchmaker, as he adds nothing and is the resident troublemaker, curmdugeon, naysayer and all around evil-intentioned person. Also wish the town drunk, gfhockey, would be banned from at least this football forum. They are worse than NDSU fans piping in.

Constructive criticism is needed in any program. Destructive criticism with no proposed solutions and constant complaining offers nothing, like those posters do.

[watchmaker49]

As soon as David makes this request, then watchmaker does the exact opposite of what he requested. I wish this forum would ban watchmaker, as he adds nothing and is the resident troublemaker, curmdugeon, naysayer and all around evil-intentioned person. Also wish the town drunk, gfhockey, would be banned from at least this football forum. They are worse than NDSU fans piping in.

Constructive criticism is needed in any program. Destructive criticism with no proposed solutions and constant complaining offers nothing, like those posters do.

Sorry I do not live in your Pollyanna world where everything is sunshine and buttercups, I am a realist. Hockey at UND is like football everywhere else. It grew to be what it is with it's atmosphere naturally. It was not gimmicks to try and sell something to someone who does not want to buy it. It is what it is so live with it and enjoy it yourself instead of worrying about how many students don't show up. They don't care. Why is that so hard to believe?

[geaux_sioux]

Sorry I do not live in your Pollyanna world where everything is sunshine and buttercups, I am a realist. Hockey at UND is like football everywhere else. It grew to be what it is with it's atmosphere naturally. It was not gimmicks to try and sell something to someone who does not want to buy it. It is what it is so live with it and enjoy it yourself instead of worrying about how many students don't show up. They don't care. Why is that so hard to believe?

Enough all ready. We get it, you're a hockey guy. Thanks to some incredible foresight by this forums creator there is a hockey thread where you can talk about how petty other sports are and how the hockey team didn't lose to a crappy Alaska team. Good thing they play a big time program in Alaska Anchorage this weekend so you don't have to spoil any moments of your splendid fringe sport filled life with football. Have a nice weekend.

[SiouxVolley]

Sorry I do not live in your Pollyanna world where everything is sunshine and buttercups, I am a realist. Hockey at UND is like football everywhere else. It grew to be what it is with it's atmosphere naturally. It was not gimmicks to try and sell something to someone who does not want to buy it. It is what it is so live with it and enjoy it yourself instead of worrying about how many students don't show up. They don't care. Why is that so hard to believe?

UND athletic has 21 siblings, some with more history and talents and some with less, some good looking and some still babies. Everyone is happy for their success and that includes me. Football has also been an acheiver, but to groupies like you, you disdain the very siblings that should be encouraged. NO wonder you were a crappy instructor.

[bincitysioux]

North Dakota is what it is, and that is a hockey school for the most part. To compare it to the "big" schools, it is no different than Duke being a basketball school, or Alabama being a football school. Just like us, I'm sure Duke has their football rubes that get rubbed the wrong way by Blue Devil basketball fans that don't pay attention to anything other than Coach K, and Crimson Tide basketball fans get rubbed the wrong way by those who think Nick Saban is the football coach AND governor of Alabama at the same time.

I love all UND sports, and try to keep in mind that things go in cycles. There were a couple years in the early 90's where even North Dakota basketball was bigger draw than hockey. It was not too long ago that UND football was a real big deal, and I'm confident that it will be again, and it doesn't need to come at the expense of hockey, basketball, volleyball, or even soccer. Win, and they will come...........to all sports.

[UND-FB-FAN]

Nor any other big school in the country. mg2009 you seem to get the picture that you can not create something that evolves, sorry Mr. Primus, on its own. Mr. Primus you can try all the little promotions that you can think of but it will not work. You can not make something that needs to have its own life.

Football had great energy and attendance a little over 5 years ago, so why couldn't it ever be like that again? Also, marketing and in-game atmosphere changes are noticed and do help (see NDSU entrance), so dont say that nothing will work and the attendance this year is a preview of the way things will always be!!

You're lost so why don't you get lost.

[Wildfan]

For a sport that lost fans over the years it will take time. What needs to happen for the student attendance is to have peers talk about the game with friends, tell them to go. That will most likely start from lower classmen just starting in college that hasn't known UND Football for the past few years, and by the time they are seniors, they will be able to lead, and underclassmen will start getting excited if they see upper classmen going week in and week out.

A touchdown horn or siren would be sweet, and I think what would be good is to give some students incentives to go out and promote, find some of the people that stay for full games, and stays engaged, and give them a bunch of posters, and have them walk around campus promoting. I know UMN has done this(they were doing it last year when I was on a campus tour, hell they were promoting tennis or something like that as well), also I haven't been in Grand Forks much, maybe one weekend over the past few years, but I didn't see anything promoting or showing off UND football or anything UND besides hockey inside the restarurants I went to.

[JohnboyND7]

Enough all ready. We get it, you're a hockey guy. Thanks to some incredible foresight by this forums creator there is a hockey thread where you can talk about how petty other sports are and how the hockey team didn't lose to a crappy Alaska team. Good thing they play a big time program in Alaska Anchorage this weekend so you don't have to spoil any moments of your splendid fringe sport filled life with football. Have a nice weekend.

dont agree with geaux_sioux on much, but there is one thing we definitely agree on, the attitude that many UND hockey fans have toward the other sports is pretty bad. In Fargo, we got plenty of football fans who don't tend to pay much attention to the basketball team and other sports. But they certainly don't trash the other sports the way I see SOME of the hockey fans on here do.

When I talk to UND buddies of mine who don't care about the football team they mention that they are playing "small schools". I ask what makes the hockey games against Denver and Colorado College so great then, they say they are big-time schools. While they are big in the hockey world, Montana, Montana State, and EWU are big in the FCS world and are definitely worth going to the game for.

What is the point in going D-I for all sports in these people's eyes if they still have the same attitude towards the teams on the schedule? Oofda. UND student(and by the looks of it, some alumni) attitude needs to change. Other than that, UND needs to string together some winning seasons.

[UNDBIZ]

What is the point in going D-I for all sports in these people's eyes if they still have the same attitude towards the teams on the schedule? Oofda. UND student(and by the looks of it, some alumni) attitude needs to change. Other than that, UND needs to string together some winning seasons.

Many of the hockey-only folks blame the move to D1 for the loss of the Fighting Sioux nickname. Similar to DaveK, they would tell you the move to D1 was dumb. I admit that 8 years ago I didn't think a move to D1 was necessary, but looking at who is D2 now (Minot, Mary, Bemidji, Crookston, Moorhead, etc.), we certainly don't belong in the same division as them.

[UNDColorado]

Many of the hockey-only folks blame the move to D1 for the loss of the Fighting Sioux nickname. Similar to DaveK, they would tell you the move to D1 was dumb. I admit that 8 years ago I didn't think a move to D1 was necessary, but looking at who is D2 now (Minot, Mary, Bemidji, Crookston, Moorhead, etc.), we certainly don't belong in the same division as them.

I always found that argument of going D1 caused us to drop the nickname interesting. As you already know division 2 is still NCAA...we may have been able to get away with it a bit longer but it would have been gone either way; people who think that was the reason are not comprehending the facts.

[Eskimos]

dont agree with geaux_sioux on much, but there is one thing we definitely agree on, the attitude that many UND hockey fans have toward the other sports is pretty bad. In Fargo, we got plenty of football fans who don't tend to pay much attention to the basketball team and other sports. But they certainly don't trash the other sports the way I see SOME of the hockey fans on here do.

So you are basing your statement on what "some" of the hockey fans on here do? Because those hockey fans are a great representative of what many of the UND hockey fans have towards other sports at UND? I know you like to come here and stir the pot, but it gets really old when you throw out crap all the time just looking for an argument.

[watchmaker49]

Enough all ready. We get it, you're a hockey guy. Thanks to some incredible foresight by this forums creator there is a hockey thread where you can talk about how petty other sports are and how the hockey team didn't lose to a crappy Alaska team. Good thing they play a big time program in Alaska Anchorage this weekend so you don't have to spoil any moments of your splendid fringe sport filled life with football. Have a nice weekend.

You have not even lived in GF for how many years? You have attended how many games in the last 20 years? My thoughts have nothing to do with liking one sport or another. My entire argument revolves around the fact that a lot of people could care less about football. You can't make people buy into something that they do not care about no matter how many bells and whistles you attach to the product. I have never once put down any of the other sports and if I have show me where. The point of this thread was how to increase the fan base with the students is it not? All I said was that it has to evolve on its own through winning or what have you. What I have been seeing though from the alum and non-alums here is putting down the students for their apathy towards the football team. I am not being the negative one here. That would be you and yours that are being negative towards the students. I have been in Madison and Knoxville many times on game day and you can not create that atmosphere artificially. Give the students a winning team and they might decide to follow. Even then if they don't they don't. What is the problem then? It seems that a lot of other schools based on attendence numbers provided here don't care either.

[watchmaker49]

UND athletic has 21 siblings, some with more history and talents and some with less, some good looking and some still babies. Everyone is happy for their success and that includes me. Football has also been an acheiver, but to groupies like you, you disdain the very siblings that should be encouraged. NO wonder you were a crappy instructor.

? OK where have I said this once. I understand the need to have the siblings per NCAA requirements for the other sports. Fine so you are happy with the other sports doing good or bad. But do not put down others who could care less about those sports or sports period. By the way how many degrees to you have from UND?