Bakken Trophy

[Bison06]

Not trying to troll, but isn't this the exact same idea that you guys thought was a horrible and contrived attempt to make a game more meaningful than it actually is when NDSU and SDSU started a trophy game?

I actually think it would be a good idea, just pointing out my recollection of the events back in '04.

[Siouxperfan7]

Not trying to troll, but isn't this the exact same idea that you guys thought was a horrible and contrived attempt to make a game more meaningful than it actually is when NDSU and SDSU started a trophy game?

I actually think it would be a good idea, just pointing out my recollection of the events back in '04.

The difference is NDSU fans were saying that SDSU is their rival now and htey were replacing UND with NDSU. In this case, UND is adding a rival and we want to have a ravalry trophy since we play then every year. They will never replace NDSU as our biggenst rival. That is what NDSU fans, etc were saying about SDSU.

[Bison06]

The difference is NDSU fans were saying that SDSU is their rival now and htey were replacing UND with NDSU. In this case, UND is adding a rival and we want to have a ravalry trophy since we play then every year. They will never replace NDSU as our biggenst rival. That is what NDSU fans, etc were saying about SDSU.

Splitting hairs a little there I think, but fair enough I suppose.

[Siouxperfan7]

Splitting hairs a little there I think, but fair enough I suppose.

I have no problem with NDSU having a rivalry with SDSU. They are the closest school in their conference that they play every year. Same will be true for UND and Montana St. Both schools have to fill the void of not having what was one of the best college rivalries in football. I think that both fans agree that a rivalry game between any other school will never equal to what the NDSU/UND rivalry was.

[Bison06]

I have no problem with NDSU having a rivalry with SDSU. They are the closest school in their conference that they play every year. Same will be true for UND and Montana St. Both schools have to fill the void of not having what was one of the best college rivalries in football. I think that both fans agree that a rivalry game between any other school will never equal to what the NDSU/UND rivalry was.

I thought it was a great idea in '04 for NDSU and I think it is a great idea now for UND.

I just remember reading about the Dakota Marker quite a bit on this board back in '04 and NDSU was catching a lot of flak for "making up rivalry" with SDSU. I think it's a fair question to ask why it was contrived in '04, but now most UND fans seem to think that it is a great way to create some excitement between the two fanbases involved in a trophy game?

[Siouxperfan7]

I thought it was a great idea in '04 for NDSU and I think it is a great idea now for UND.

I just remember reading about the Dakota Marker quite a bit on this board back in '04 and NDSU was catching a lot of flak for "making up rivalry" with SDSU. I think it's a fair question to ask why it was contrived in '04, but now most UND fans seem to think that it is a great way to create some excitement between the two fanbases involved in a trophy game?

I think the issue then was that Bison fans were in their "UND doesn't want to keep playing us in football, screw them" phase. There were many fans that were pissed off about that and that we didn't move to D! with them that they vocally said that they wanted nothing to do with UND and SDSU was going to be their biggest rival now. So they were replacing UND with SDSU as their primary rival, when they weren't really much of one to begin with. Montana State,Montana, etc may be teams that we are going to begin new rivalries with, but they will never replace NDSU. We are not replacing NDSU with Montana State. In 04, NDSU was replacing us with SDSU. So it was almost forced.

[UND1983]

I thought it was a great idea in '04 for NDSU and I think it is a great idea now for UND.

I just remember reading about the Dakota Marker quite a bit on this board back in '04 and NDSU was catching a lot of flak for "making up rivalry" with SDSU. I think it's a fair question to ask why it was contrived in '04, but now most UND fans seem to think that it is a great way to create some excitement between the two fanbases involved in a trophy game?

Rivalry is a loosely used term these days. Obviously if UND and Montana State started a trophy it would not mean its instantly a true rivalry and the blood would start boiling. It would probably be the same intensity as the "rivalry" UND had with USD back in the day for Sitting Bull. It was fun but nothing near the nickel.

When NDSU/SDSU made up the Marker, the fans blew it's importance so far out of proportion. That is why UND fans cut it down so much. Its a nice, fun trophy to bring some meaning to the game but it is non-existent for 364 days a year. Just like Sitting Bull was.

[Bison06]

I think the issue then was that Bison fans were in their "UND doesn't want to keep playing us in football, screw them" phase. There were many fans that were pissed off about that and that we didn't move to D! with them that they vocally said that they wanted nothing to do with UND and SDSU was going to be their biggest rival now. So they were replacing UND with SDSU as their primary rival, when they weren't really much of one to begin with. Montana State,Montana, etc may be teams that we are going to begin new rivalries with, but they will never replace NDSU. We are not replacing NDSU with Montana State. In 04, NDSU was replacing us with SDSU. So it was almost forced.

I think it is just a matter of timing. It seemed forced back then because of the proximity to the "breakup". Otherwise it is nearly an identical situation.

Actually, If anything, UND starting a trophy game with MSU would be even more manufactured than the NDSU v. SDSU situation. The SU's had a partnership of sorts that helped guide each school through the transition, so it made sense to have our fanbases attach meaning to the game. But MSU has been a DI school for over 30 years and UND is just the new guy on the block in their world.

[Bison06]

Rivalry is a loosely used term these days. Obviously if UND and Montana State started a trophy it would not mean its instantly a true rivalry and the blood would start boiling. It would probably be the same intensity as the "rivalry" UND had with USD back in the day for Sitting Bull. It was fun but nothing near the nickel.

When NDSU/SDSU made up the Marker, the fans blew it's importance so far out of proportion. That is why UND fans cut it down so much. Its a nice, fun trophy to bring some meaning to the game but it is non-existent for 364 days a year. Just like Sitting Bull was.

I hear UND fans saying almost exactly what NDSU fans were saying back in '04.

"Great way to build some excitement" "Makes the game more interesting" etc. Nobody actually believed that SDSU would turn into a hated rival the way UND was. Actually the SDSU "rivalry" has turned out to be much more heated than I ever imagined it would.

I just find it ironic. Seems like a pretty clear case of double standard from my perspective.

[UND1983]

I hear UND fans same almost exactly what NDSU fans were saying back in '04.

"Great way to build some excitement" "Makes the game more interesting" etc. Nobody actually believed that SDSU would turn into a hated rival the way UND was. Actually the SDSU "rivalry" has turned out to be much more heated than I ever imagined it would.

I just find it ironic. Seems like a pretty clear case of double standard from my perspective

Like I said, NDSU fans made a huge deal out of the trophy because it was during the transition and they wanted SDSU to become this massive rival. It got old hearing about it because everyone knew deep down that the nickel is the only true traveling trophy either of us will care about. You have to admit that your fans tried to act like the Marker was the new Nickel.

UND fans will never do that with this trophy, if it is made. I clearly stated that it would take on a meaning similar to Sitting Bull, probably even less. It simply would be a trophy for fun, to join together the two states through the Bakken Oil field. No real rivalry at all.

[Bison06]

Like I said, NDSU fans made a huge deal out of the trophy because it was during the transition and they wanted SDSU to become this massive rival. It got old hearing about it because everyone knew deep down that the nickel is the only true traveling trophy either of us will care about. You have to admit that your fans tried to act like the Marker was the new Nickel.

UND fans will never do that with this trophy, if it is made. I clearly stated that it would take on a meaning similar to Sitting Bull, probably even less. It simply would be a trophy for fun, to join together the two states through the Bakken Oil field. No real rivalry at all.

Again, 8 years ago the fallout from the breakup was much more intense. I think everyone was much more sensitive and NDSU and UND fans were both in a we don't need you so eff off kind of place.

Other than it being 8 years removed, I see them as identical situations. Other than a few radical fans on message boards, NDSU fans knew it would never be the same as the nickel.

[WILDCAT]

Rivalries are what makes College football so great, you can never have too many Rivalries. And Weber has both of thier's (Idaho State, Southern Utah) on thier schedule every year.

[CMSioux]

Lots of schools have more than one rivalry - I'm sure we are all aware of the Minnesota/Iowa and the Minnesota/Wisconsin rivalries - more like hammer and nail but still a rivalry. Again su revisionists will spin the Mile Marker to their liking but when it was introduced it was "Because SDSU is now our #1 rival" and "We've moved on".

[108498]

Am I wrong or are montana and montana state not big rivals already. It's like saying the vickings will become rivals with oakland. Sorry, but denver is the rival of oakland. Yes they are in different confrences, but the point is the same no one turns away from hot rival to make a small rival in the future with another.

[JohnboyND7]

Lots of schools have more than one rivalry - I'm sure we are all aware of the Minnesota/Iowa and the Minnesota/Wisconsin rivalries - more like hammer and nail but still a rivalry. Again su revisionists will spin the Mile Marker to their liking but when it was introduced it was "Because SDSU is now our #1 rival" and "We've moved on".

You, CMSioux, are the only one who I ever hear claim this NDSU 'moved on' mentality. Everyone else seems to agree that we still keep tabs on UND, I see NDSU get brought up in threads up here. In fact, I see you mention NDSU morethan anyone else.

The Dakota Marker is a trophy for two schools who abandoned D-II together. Both leaving their in-state rivals aside, and both are Land-Grant. Makes sense to play for something.

[KBH2010]

You, CMSioux, are the only one who I ever hear claim this NDSU 'moved on' mentality. Everyone else seems to agree that we still keep tabs on UND, I see NDSU get brought up in threads up here. In fact, I see you mention NDSU morethan anyone else.

The Dakota Marker is a trophy for two schools who abandoned D-II together. Both leaving their in-state rivals aside, and both are Land-Grant. Makes sense to play for something.

I still think the trophy looks like a giant turd. A little more planning should have gone into the design of that trophy.

But I have no problem with NDSU and SDSU having a rivalry and I'm sure the games are intense. But I still think UNDs biggest rival is NDSU and vice versa. You can't take 100 years of tradition and flush it down the toilet.

[Bison06]

I still think the trophy looks like a giant turd. A little more planning should have gone into the design of that trophy.

But I have no problem with NDSU and SDSU having a rivalry and I'm sure the games are intense. But I still think UNDs biggest rival is NDSU and vice versa. You can't take 100 years of tradition and flush it down the toilet.

You realize the trophy is a scale model of the markers that were put in place in 1891 right? Not exactly the type of situation where you allow for artistic interpretation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Marker

[JohnboyND7]

I still think the trophy looks like a giant turd. A little more planning should have gone into the design of that trophy.

What have you been eating?

[bincitysioux]

Not trying to troll, but isn't this the exact same idea that you guys thought was a horrible and contrived attempt to make a game more meaningful than it actually is when NDSU and SDSU started a trophy game?

I actually think it would be a good idea, just pointing out my recollection of the events back in '04.

I think the main difference is that now the proverbial shoe is on our foot................................

I criticized the NDSU-SDSU rivalry as much as anyone back in the day. Personally, my reason was because NDSU mostly ignored SDSU's existence for the prior 100 years that they had been regularly competing against each other. Prior to 2003, the top NCC teams like North Dakota, NDSU, UNO, and UNC viewed SDSU with little difference compared to Augustana and Mankato. To their credit, SDSU all the sudden got competitive, and had some football success for the first time in the history of the school. Had that not happened, and had they not beaten NDSU a few times early on in the DI era, my guess is that most NSDU fans would still be hardly noticing SDSU. Kind of like how North Dakota fans hardly notice USD. It seems to have worked out well for both institutions.

I think a trophy with Montana St. could be fun. But just awarding some trophy to the winner each year won't make it a rivalry. That has to be built on the gridiron with close games, meaninful games, late hits, illegal blocks, and trash talking.

And my guess is that Northern Colorado would be more open to a travelling trophy than would MSU, and that doesn't sound nearly as fun. But it would have to be one of those two, because it would be stupid to have a travelling trophy for a game that is not played annually.

[westsidesioux]

Sorry, I've been out enjoying this amazing day at the lake today but I wanted to address some of what Bison06 has posted. When I posted the idea, it was never to have this be our new rival...nothing will replace what we've had with Moo-U, but MSU is an opponent that we will play every year, so I thought that the trophy game would be awesome. I don't think anyone would consider Minnesota-Michigan to be an amazing rivalry, but everytime they meet it is for the Little Brown jug. And if I'm not mistaken, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the Dakota marker is a scaled replica, I think it's the actual thing, because I know the guy that picked it up out of the field and took it back to his hayology instructors at DSU-Fargo with the idea of using it for their trophy for the games with their new biggest rivals. If I'm not mistaken, he got into some hot water for removing this from the location.

[Bison06]

Sorry, I've been out enjoying this amazing day at the lake today but I wanted to address some of what Bison06 has posted. When I posted the idea, it was never to have this be our new rival...nothing will replace what we've had with Moo-U, but MSU is an opponent that we will play every year, so I thought that the trophy game would be awesome. I don't think anyone would consider Minnesota-Michigan to be an amazing rivalry, but everytime they meet it is for the Little Brown jug. And if I'm not mistaken, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the Dakota marker is a scaled replica, I think it's the actual thing, because I know the guy that picked it up out of the field and took it back to his hayology instructors at DSU-Fargo with the idea of using it for their trophy for the games with their new biggest rivals. If I'm not mistaken, he got into some hot water for removing this from the location.

The Dakota Marker is about 75-100 lbs and is a scaled replica of the actual border markers that are along the ND/SD border.

I have seen a few of these things while out hunting and they are enormous. 7 feet tall and probably a ton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Marker

My point has been that NDSU fans(other than a few crazies) think of the dakota marker the exact same way all of you would think of a trophy with MSU. Something nice to create some interest and a little more excitement leading up to the game. Nothing more. In fact, SDSU isn't even our biggest rival in our conference at this point. The bad blood between UNI and NDSU is pretty evident and I would consider them our most heated in conference rival at this point.

[darell1976]

Many schools have different rivalries and trophies with those rivalries. It doesn't matter if NDSU has one with SDSU just as UND had a trophy with USD back in our DII days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_college_football_rivalry_games

Dartmouth plays for 3 different schools each for a different trophy. Hell NDSU could start a trophy with UNI in football it shouldn't matter to UND. Everyone on both sides know the Nickel Trophy was the big trophy, well that trophy is retired and its time to move on. Good luck NDSU/SDSU for the Road Marker, just as good luck UND if they do start a trophy rivalry with MSU.

[Bison06]

Many schools have different rivalries and trophies with those rivalries. It doesn't matter if NDSU has one with SDSU just as UND had a trophy with USD back in our DII days.

http://en.wikipedia....l_rivalry_games

Dartmouth plays for 3 different schools each for a different trophy. Hell NDSU could start a trophy with UNI in football it shouldn't matter to UND. Everyone on both sides know the Nickel Trophy was the big trophy, well that trophy is retired and its time to move on. Good luck NDSU/SDSU for the Road Marker, just as good luck UND if they do start a trophy rivalry with MSU.

If you don't have a problem with the Dakota Marker, why the disparaging nicknames on this board? Road Marker, Mile Marker? And my personal favorite that it resembles a turd?

[CMSioux]

You, CMSioux, are the only one who I ever hear claim this NDSU 'moved on' mentality. Everyone else seems to agree that we still keep tabs on UND, I see NDSU get brought up in threads up here. In fact, I see you mention NDSU morethan anyone else.

The Dakota Marker is a trophy for two schools who abandoned D-II together. Both leaving their in-state rivals aside, and both are Land-Grant. Makes sense to play for something.

You're joking right because the phrase "We've moved on" gets brought up bu su trolls everytime the mere mention of su playing UND comes up. Yah might jab at su once in awhile but It's hard not to mention it with so many trolls posting here every day.

[geaux_sioux]

You're joking right because the phrase "We've moved on" gets brought up bu su trolls everytime the mere mention of su playing UND comes up. Yah might jab at su once in awhile but It's hard not to mention it with so many trolls posting here every day.

Bison06 and JohnnyboyND7 are hardly trolls, they get a little pissy every once and a while like everyone else but I don't consider them trolls just because they like an inferior school. I like that we have at least two posters from NDSU who at least try to be realistic unlike most on bville