Buy or Sell

[homer]

Buy or sell this being the most talented team in UND history

They haven't even played a game yet

[geaux_sioux]

One would imagine they believe that the 2001(title team?) is probably more talented.

Not on offense at all. I'll give that defense credit since they were sick though.

[geaux_sioux]

They haven't even played a game yet

Talent doesnt need to play to be measured. The Oakland Raiders are about as talented as it gets in the NFL they just don't produce. The 2003 team was not nearly as talented as others but got very close to winning it all. I'm just trying to make some good conversation til things pick up again so lay off the buzz kill please.

[bincitysioux]

You can't just sell like that and not name a team

2001, 2003, 2006, several teams from the early 70's

[homer]

Talent doesnt need to play to be measured. The Oakland Raiders are about as talented as it gets in the NFL they just don't produce. The 2003 team was not nearly as talented as others but got very close to winning it all. I'm just trying to make some good conversation til things pick up again so lay off the buzz kill please.

I don't think its conversation worth having until after the season. Buzzkill or not it sounds real silly to have this conversation before fall camp even starts. There is plent of conversation to be had. Freshmen report in less than a week. Camp starts in a week. Where is Fafita and what is our secondary going to look like? How is the turf coming along at the Al?

Crowning anyone anything before the season has even started is a joke. They are big boys, they will have their chance to prove it in about a month.

[sioux24/7]

Wow I did not even notice Fifita was no longer on the roster. That is disappointing.

[geaux_sioux]

2001, 2003, 2006, several teams from the early 70's

I'd say the 01 and 03 teams aren't even close on offense but Hung their hats on defense. The 06 team had an unreal offense and a very good d. I can't speak on the teams from the 70s other than I know they had good players.

I think this years offense could be very comparable to the 06 offense when its all said and done. The main difference is the depth now is better than ever before with the extra scholarships

[geaux_sioux]

Wow I did not even notice Fifita was no longer on the roster. That is disappointing.

He is of the ethnicity of someone who would have to do a mission

[sioux24/7]

He is of the ethnicity of someone who would have to do a mission

So you're saying he will be back?

[geaux_sioux]

I don't think its conversation worth having until after the season. Buzzkill or not it sounds real silly to have this conversation before fall camp even starts. There is plent of conversation to be had. Freshmen report in less than a week. Camp starts in a week. Where is Fafita and what is our secondary going to look like? How is the turf coming along at the Al?

Crowning anyone anything before the season has even started is a joke. They are big boys, they will have their chance to prove it in about a month.

Sounds like you're confusing talent with production. If its not a conversation worth having for you than don't post on it.

[geaux_sioux]

So you're saying he will be back?

I never said that. In mission situations I'm not sure if anyone knows

[homer]

Sounds like you're confusing talent with production. If its not a conversation worth having for you than don't post on it.

Well, was our offense that bad this year in the scrimmages I saw in the spring or was our defense that good? And with the secondary we had last year the guys coming back have a lot to prove. I saw some talent but not much production. This year is our chance to begin to prove ourselves at this level. Lets not get a head of ourselves until at least two weeks from now when the boys put all the pads on for the first time.

[geaux_sioux]

Well, was our offense that bad this year in the scrimmages I saw in the spring or was our defense that good? And with the secondary we had last year the guys coming back have a lot to prove. I saw some talent but not much production. This year is our chance to begin to prove ourselves at this level. Lets not get a head of ourselves until at least two weeks from now when the boys put all the pads on for the first time.

Defense has always had the upper hand in the spring. It's easier to jump into it

[JohnboyND7]

He is of the ethnicity of someone who would have to do a mission

The ones that normally do missions around this time is Mormons? If he is a Mormon that is not an ethnicity, but a religion.

[UND-1]

He is of the ethnicity of someone who would have to do a mission

I heard that same thing, that he had to go on a mission.

[UND-FB-FAN]

2001, 2003, 2006, several teams from the early 70's

If the 2001, 2003, 2006, and especially the early 70s teams are more talented than this year's team, it will be a disappointing year. This team needs to end up being either the most talented or 2nd most talented team in UND history to even make the playoffs this season. If we're really that down on this team to the point where four or maybe five D2 UND teams are considered more talented, well, it will be a middle of the pack in the Big Sky type season. I don't know if I would buy this team being the best just yet - it’s too early, but there is no way this team is the fifth or sixth most talented team. It has to be top 3 given the D1 talent. If it is as mediocre as some think it is, there will be no playoffs, honest truth. Remember, in 2001 and 2003 we were playing teams like Grand Valley St., St. Cloud St. and Augustana, NOT teams like Montana, Eastern Washington, and San Diego State! I'm just trying to put this in perspective. If this year's team is considerably less talented than some of our D2 teams, this will be a .500 season. Hope the talent on the team is at least top 3 all time and we get into the playoffs. I mean, as good as our 2001 team was, it likely wouldn’t have beat teams like Montana, Montana State, and Eastern Washington.

Of course, this is all just hypothetical; let’s just wait for the season and hope everything turns out BETTER than we expect!

[geaux_sioux]

The ones that normally do missions around this time is Mormons? If he is a Mormon that is not an ethnicity, but a religion.

Alot of Samoans are Mormon. Ethnicity.

[geaux_sioux]

If the 2001, 2003, 2006, and especially the early 70s teams are more talented than this year's team, it will be a disappointing year. This team needs to end up being either the most talented or 2nd most talented team in UND history to even make the playoffs this season. If we're really that down on this team to the point where four or maybe five D2 UND teams are considered more talented, well, it will be a middle of the pack in the Big Sky type season. I don't know if I would buy this team being the best just yet - it’s too early, but there is no way this team is the fifth or sixth most talented team. It has to be top 3 given the D1 talent. If it is as mediocre as some think it is, there will be no playoffs, honest truth. Remember, in 2001 and 2003 we were playing teams like Grand Valley St., St. Cloud St. and Augustana, NOT teams like Montana, Eastern Washington, and San Diego State! I'm just trying to put this in perspective. If this year's team is considerably less talented than some of our D2 teams, this will be a .500 season. Hope the talent on the team is at least top 3 all time and we get into the playoffs. I mean, as good as our 2001 team was, it likely wouldn’t have beat teams like Montana, Montana State, and Eastern Washington.

Of course, this is all just hypothetical; let’s just wait for the season and hope everything turns out BETTER than we expect!

My opinion on this team is that WR LB DE DT and OL are deeper than any D2 team could ever be. Also all of those players are of a higher caliber. The DBs are probably going to end up being better than almost any UND has fielded by the end of the season after someone emerges on the other side of Darryl Brown.

I think alot of people lose sight of the fact that even though UND has always been good, back in the D2 days we weren't even as talented as Mankato. We just executed better and were tougher. The Mankato statement was made to me by a former player who would know from experience which reinforced what I had always thought.

[JohnboyND7]

Alot of Samoans are Mormon. Ethnicity.

Not to nitpick but then wouldn't the proper term but to say his religion is the reason? Just because you are from Samoa wouldn't be the reason for the mission, it'd be because you are mormon.

[tnt]

_{The Blues Brothers were on a mission, and they weren't mormon!}

[UNDvince97-01]

You can't just sell like that and not name a team

Based on talent alone, I can think of probably 10-12 UND teams off the top of my head that are more talented than this team right now.

Like Homer said, they haven't even practiced yet.

[geaux_sioux]

I know a lot of you guys like to drink the 'back in my day' kool aid but I think a lot of you are forgetting that those awesome teams of old were D2. No doubt they could play but the talent level across the board is better now than ever. I'm not hating of those great teams of the past that I watched dominate but its a different animal now.

[sioux24/7]

I know a lot of you guys like to drink the 'back in my day' kool aid but I think a lot of you are forgetting that those awesome teams of old were D2. No doubt they could play but the talent level across the board is better now than ever. I'm not hating of those great teams of the past that I watched dominate but its a different animal now.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I think it could very well be the most talented team we have ever had but not relative to the competition.

[82SiouxGuy]

I know a lot of you guys like to drink the 'back in my day' kool aid but I think a lot of you are forgetting that those awesome teams of old were D2. No doubt they could play but the talent level across the board is better now than ever. I'm not hating of those great teams of the past that I watched dominate but its a different animal now.

College football was much different back in previous times. For instance, during the 1960's and early 70's there was no Division I (FBS), I-A (FCS) and II. There was the University Division, which was a smaller version of the current DI, and the College Division, which was basically FCS and DII combined. UND and NDSU played at the top of the College Division during a lot of that time. They had 4 regional bowl games for the College Division and a national champion was chosen by poll from the winners. UND won bowl games in 1966 and 1972, but weren't chosen as the National Champions. This was the equivalent to playing in the FCS quarterfinals and winning.

These were very talented and accomplished teams. Check the UND record books, some of these players still hold high positions in the record books, including Mike Deutsch holding the single season record for rushing touchdowns with 26 in 1972, 10 more than the next closest.

The other point that always needs to be considered is the difference in size, strength, etc. between current players and players from different eras. It would be hard to argue that players from the 60's and 70's were bigger and stronger. But if you are looking purely at talent, I think it is easy to make the argument that the 1966 and 1972 teams could have been more talented than this year's team. Those teams accomplished what this team aspires to accomplish. There are probably other teams that could be put into the discussion also.

[JohnboyND7]

Yeah I see what you're saying. I think it could very well be the most talented team we have ever had but not relative to the competition.

College football was much different back in previous times. For instance, during the 1960's and early 70's there was no Division I (FBS), I-A (FCS) and II. There was the University Division, which was a smaller version of the current DI, and the College Division, which was basically FCS and DII combined. UND and NDSU played at the top of the College Division during a lot of that time. They had 4 regional bowl games for the College Division and a national champion was chosen by poll from the winners. UND won bowl games in 1966 and 1972, but weren't chosen as the National Champions. This was the equivalent to playing in the FCS quarterfinals and winning.

These were very talented and accomplished teams. Check the UND record books, some of these players still hold high positions in the record books, including Mike Deutsch holding the single season record for rushing touchdowns with 26 in 1972, 10 more than the next closest.

The other point that always needs to be considered is the difference in size, strength, etc. between current players and players from different eras. It would be hard to argue that players from the 60's and 70's were bigger and stronger. But if you are looking purely at talent, I think it is easy to make the argument that the 1966 and 1972 teams could have been more talented than this year's team. Those teams accomplished what this team aspires to accomplish. There are probably other teams that could be put into the discussion also.

Both of you make good points.

If the Steelers of today played the Steelers of the 70's, no doubt the Steelers of today would pound the piss out of them. Relative to the rest of the competition though, the Steelers of yesteryear are always going to be considered better.

If Notre Dame played against the Rockne Fighting Irish, the current edition would not hesitate to put up 70-100 points on the board.