ND Supreme Court Rules against the NDSBoHE

[bigskyvikes]

The NCAA is nothing more than a bully. Don't be afraid of the bully, punch him in the mouth. He isn't half as tough as you think he is. I can't believe how spineless some people are on this topic. I'm grateful that those of you who feel that way are in the minority overall (not on this forum).

This shocks me, after you jumped my post about Blood and Rau in the line saying Rau smarted off and that's why Blood hit him! You said that doesn't warrant his actions! But you say this above? I don't get it, please explain.....

[johnson]

From the pages that I went through from the Feb. 21st thread it seems that most of the people that cheered for Al rarely post here anymore. The ones that still do, excluding Chewey, DaveK, etc. want the name to be retired to save everything else. So in a sense Johnson was partially right but wrong about the majority of the posters here.

I said many of you were high fiving Al not the majority. I said the majority of you didn't see the light until it was too late. The politicians already had their plans in motion by the time the winds shifted in the other direction on the nickname.

[ScottM]

The politicians already had their plans in motion by the time the winds shifted in the other direction on the nickname.

And yet you still have the temerity to blame UND for this mess. UND did everything it legally could to comply with the terms of the settlement. It did not receive the appropriate approvals, and moved to retire the moniker. Politicians and Spirit Lake, who were conspicuously absent in 2005 onward when it may have mattered most, decided the Sioux moniker needed to be "saved" for UND. UND is now under sanction. Therefore, since politicians are creatures of their constituents, the people of North Dakota should share in what they brought onto one of their public institutions.

[johnson]

You have no clue who has or has not done something to resolve this issue, or when they did something. You make broad accusations without any evidence. As watchmaker said, most of the posters on this site that supported Carlson's Folly have moved on to infest other places. I know that there are regular posters on this board that made strong efforts to stop this nonsense at several different stages.

And none of the blame placing helps the situation as it currently sits. But it is a game that many of the posters from south of Grand Forks like to play. I swear that some of you live in the past and can't get past any real or perceived transgression, but have to wallow in it over and over and over again. Right now it is important that UND finds a usable solution to this issue. That starts with educating the public about the true and long term effects of the sanctions, and of the secondary effects. That might result in a NO vote in June. Spirit Lake getting its lawsuit thrown out would also help because some people may realize that there is no magic button that is going to change the minds of the NCAA. A yes vote would require the SBoHE take the issue back to the Supreme Court. And more education would need to be done before a vote is taken on a constitutional amendment.

I do realize that some made the effort early on. The masses didn't come until the deadline started to approach. I am aware that some here tried to talk some sense into others but it was falling on deaf ears because many here were still in fight mode.

The blame placing started in this thread when a few here already were blaming NDSU if the law was voted in. You expect us not to respond to that nonsense? We keep bringing up the past because too many here seem to forget it too quickly. That is obvious when you have people here who are trying to point fingers at everyone else but themselves.

[zonadub]

Really do not think that the NCAA would expand the sanctions to all NCAA institutions in the state, like NORTH DAKOTA STATE University, but...

when we think about the doors of all the NORTH DAKOTA STATE Highway Patrol cars and the NORTH DAKOTA STATE Highway signs and then, to top it all off, we refuse to change the name of the state and continue to insist that we live in a state named after the DAKOTA indians... these depictions of an indian profile logo are certainly more widely sanctioned around the state of North DAKOTA by the state government than a single flag in a state veteran's cemetery.

Oh, and one more thing, remember that people (football poll voters, for example) keep getting the two schools confused with each other.

[82SiouxGuy]

I do realize that some made the effort early on. The masses didn't come until the deadline started to approach. I am aware that some here tried to talk some sense into others but it was falling on deaf ears because many here were still in fight mode.

The blame placing started in this thread when a few here already were blaming NDSU if the law was voted in. You expect us not to respond to that nonsense? We keep bringing up the past because too many here seem to forget it too quickly. That is obvious when you have people here who are trying to point fingers at everyone else but themselves.

You seem to have selective reading disorder. People weren't blaming NDSU. They were saying that some NDSU fans are going to vote yes because they know that if the law passes it will hurt UND. That isn't blaming NDSU, that is blaming the group of people trying to hurt UND. You know that it's going to happen, some members of Bville admit it freely. Those people might be enough to push the election over the top. All out of vengeance or spite. Is it any wonder that UND supporters would suggest something that might catch these people's attention and let them figure out how it could easily hurt them.

I am continually amazed how quickly Bvillers jump in here to defend their school from any perceived slight. The reverse doesn't happen nearly as often on their site where shots are taken at UND on a regular basis, multiple times per day.

[homer]

I do realize that some made the effort early on. The masses didn't come until the deadline started to approach. I am aware that some here tried to talk some sense into others but it was falling on deaf ears because many here were still in fight mode.

Of course many were still in fight mode. We are proud of our athletic teams and very proud of the name. Did you think the name was just going to change without a fight? Do you think Bison fans would not let their emotions get in the way of their better judgement on an issue like this? I doubt it. I watched your fanbase spend two months writing newspaper articles, doing interviews and coming up with all types of conspiracy theories of why UND was voted into a poll. I can't imagine the emotion that would be shown on something such as the nickname.

[johnson]

And yet you still have the temerity to blame UND for this mess. UND did everything it legally could to comply with the terms of the settlement. It did not receive the appropriate approvals, and moved to retire the moniker. Politicians and Spirit Lake, who were conspicuously absent in 2005 onward when it may have mattered most, decided the Sioux moniker needed to be "saved" for UND. UND is now under sanction. Therefore, since politicians are creatures of their constituents, the people of North Dakota should share in what they brought onto one of their public institutions.

How is this not UND's mess? The University chose not to change its nickname and logo. There was ample opportunity to change it years before the settlement was even signed. UND could have used the NCAA as the excuse and EDUCATED the public on the consequences if the name was kept instead of suing the private club you are asking for membership into. But lets not look at the past and try to learn from former mistakes. It's everybody else's fault that UND is still in this mess.

[darell1976]

How is this not UND's mess? The University chose not to change its nickname and logo. There was ample opportunity to change it years before the settlement was even signed. UND could have used the NCAA as the excuse and EDUCATED the public on the consequences if the name was kept instead of suing the private club you are asking for membership into. But lets not look at the past and try to learn from former mistakes. It's everybody else's fault that UND is still in this mess.

Since UND is under the direction of the SBoHE it wasn't their choice to change the name, so again it was the SBoHE's decision to keep it not UND's. UND right now is under the direction of the SBoHE and they are under the direction of the state law. See where the food chain is:

State Law

SBoHE

UND

However......NCAA trumps all three!

[ScottM]

How is this not UND's mess? The University chose not to change its nickname and logo. There was ample opportunity to change it years before the settlement was even signed. UND could have used the NCAA as the excuse and EDUCATED the public on the consequences if the name was kept instead of suing the private club you are asking for membership into. But lets not look at the past and try to learn from former mistakes. It's everybody else's fault that UND is still in this mess.

Do you honestly think the same "do gooders" we see now would have been silent if UND attempted to change its name years ago to appease the bedwetting academics or the NC$$? I remember the uproar when Kendall Baker tried to do it over a summer session around 1990. You're pretty ignorant about this issue in general. There's some good background in the earliest threads of this forum. Come back when you have a hot clue.

[johnson]

Do you honestly think the same "do gooders" we see now would have been silent if UND attempted to change its name years ago to appease the bedwetting academics or the NC$$? I remember the uproar when Kendall Baker tried to do it over a summer session around 1990. You're pretty ignorant about this issue in general. There's some good background in the earliest threads of this forum. Come back when you have a hot clue.

You are proving my point. UND and its supporters have had ample opportunities. Now somebody else will make the final decision for UND. The supporters have been too short sighted for too long and now it's a mess. UND and its supporters could have done this all on their own years ago but chose not to. So keep taking shots if it makes you feel better. This all could've been avoided.

[darell1976]

You are proving my point. UND and its supporters have had ample opportunities. Now somebody else will make the final decision for UND. The supporters have been too short sighted for too long and now it's a mess. UND and its supporters could have done this all on their own years ago but chose not to. So keep taking shots if it makes you feel better. This all could've been avoided.

So you like blaming people in the past, you wanna blame UND back in 1930 for even thinking of renaming the team the Sioux? How about blaming the SR tribal council in 1969 for having a pipe ceremony, how about blaming the US government for creating reservations for Indians keeping them separate from everyone else. Just keep it simple...blame the NCAA, and Al Carlson.

[johnson]

So you like blaming people in the past, you wanna blame UND back in 1930 for even thinking of renaming the team the Sioux? How about blaming the SR tribal council in 1969 for having a pipe ceremony, how about blaming the US government for creating reservations for Indians keeping them separate from everyone else. Just keep it simple...blame the NCAA, and Al Carlson.

I blame UND for not taking care of it themselves and Al Carlson for dragging it through the mud even further.

[The Sicatoka]

UND has been precluded from "taking care of it themselves" since December 2000. That's when the SBoHE took the issue.

When the SBoHE tried to do something about it, Al Carlson precluded them.

The milk is spilled. Quit trying to fix the blame. Fix the problem.

So 'johnson', what's the solution?

[johnson]

UND has been precluded from "taking care of it themselves" since December 2000. That's when the SBoHE took the issue.

When the SBoHE tried to do something about it, Al Carlson precluded them.

The milk is spilled. Quit trying to fix the blame. Fix the problem.

So 'johnson', what's the solution?

Scott just mentioned an attempt at taking care of it a decade earlier than 2000. It was already a problem that hadn't been fixed.

Al Carlson took over for Rick Berg. Anytime before Al Carlson took over and he would've been a non factor.

UND spilled the milk. Quit trying to deflect the blame. Now the public will fix the problem.

[82SiouxGuy]

Scott just mentioned an attempt at taking care of it a decade earlier than 2000. It was already a problem that hadn't been fixed.

Al Carlson took over for Rick Berg. Anytime before Al Carlson took over and he would've been a non factor.

UND spilled the milk. Quit trying to deflect the blame. Now the public will fix the problem.

The public may not fix the problem, they may make it worse. Which is just what you would like to have happen. A lot of people can have 20/20 vision when looking at the past. And as I said earlier, you and your friends seem to like to point fingers and assign blame. That isn't helping, as a matter of fact it gets in the way. If you want to be of assistance you can make some suggestions to solve the problem now (not 20 years ago). Otherwise maybe you should just go play with all the rest of your little pals.

[Fetch]

what's the solution?

VOTE YES FOR THE NAME

See how Sioux County vote turns out (If yes then ncaa should go to he!!)

Wait & see how SL lawsuit turns out (hopefully the ncaa will lose from he!!)

& part of the restitution of the settlement, SL gets the rights to the name (Thus will profit from it for eternity) IF SR has a real vote & it's yes they should share in those profits (if the ncaa were smart they would settle this with something like this before it comes to all this & really lose their azz) Because they will have learned we Love the name & Logo & both tribes will have spoken - granted thru a weird quagmire of events that many helped to screw up - But all needed to happen & play out

If this does not work either live with the consequences & Hate & Blame the ncaa forever

Or all you chicken Little's can then be right & declare the sky fell & have your own referral vote to drop the name

PS......I still think SL could get the name back & sell the rights to a AHL team for the Ralph

We all live happily ever after & be proud we did the right thing

& Ralph can RIP

[The Sicatoka]

... AHL team for the Ralph ...

You keep tossing out that canard. Do you really realize what it takes to start and run an AHL team?

And as I've said, the NCAA only wants an official statement from Standing Rock tribal government.

A state vote doesn't mean squat because non-tribal members also vote in Sioux County, ND.

[Fetch]

- Yes but we have the facility & Fan base for it to be a great investment (maybe some Bakken oil investors will step forward ?)

- ncaa will get that in what I said above

- I have driven thru SR Reservation (ND SIDE - most is in SD & it's none of their business) & other than a few ranchers & even less farmers - it is predominately Sioux people - maybe UND Admin. & Alumni & any other Leaders worth a vote can finally do the right thing & get down there & really try to make this happen this time (when the time is right) & it will come

wait & see - I think the people will support this over all your Fear tactics you have been trying

[Teeder11]

Scott just mentioned an attempt at taking care of it a decade earlier than 2000. It was already a problem that hadn't been fixed.

Al Carlson took over for Rick Berg. Anytime before Al Carlson took over and he would've been a non factor.

UND spilled the milk. Quit trying to deflect the blame. Now the public will fix the problem.

OK. I'll bite. What you're failing to recognize, or deliberately ignoring to prolong this stupid ping-pong, spitting contest, is the love UND fans have always had for the nickname. Some of us have already come to grips with the consequences and have reluctantly pushed for its retirement as we foresee no end result that favors our beloved University. Others are coming around but it's a slower process for them. Still others (and they'll continue to make themselves known and heard) probably will never concede (and that dwindling minority is the group that I think stands out most in your mind). Getting back to my point, is it any wonder that fans of a University would try every possible scenario to save the nickname they love? I can only presume that you would be extremely dissapointed in your own fanbase and program leaders if they acted/reacted any different than UND has over the years if the Bison nickname ever found itself in the crosshairs of the NCAA, as unlikley a prospect as it may be.

It's hard to give up a nickname as loved as the Fighting Sioux is/has been no matter how prudent the justification might be -- and even more so when the reason is based on the arbitrary, capricious and hypocritical PC bullcrap elitist-think that the NCAA policy is. I am confident that NDSU fans, or any fanbase loyal to a Univeristy and a long and dearly held nickname, would put up a similar fight, if they were put in UND's position.

You are right this is UND's mess, but only because it was deemed to have a hostile and abusive nickname by the NCAA, not because of anything UND has done to itself, or because of anything NDSU fans might do in the future, or because of anything anyone else in the state of North Dakota has done or might do.

Hope it's clearer now. It all boils down to love and passion for a nickname. If it was an easy thing to give up, then, I'd say that's the saddest thing of all. Surely, as a fan of a great University team, you, too, must understand this.

WWBFD

[Fetch]

Teeder that was a BIG Improvement but you still have a ways to go to get to full truth / support / & the whole blame game

[Fetch]

I don't know who BF is But WWRED ?

[johnson]

The public may not fix the problem, they may make it worse. Which is just what you would like to have happen. A lot of people can have 20/20 vision when looking at the past. And as I said earlier, you and your friends seem to like to point fingers and assign blame. That isn't helping, as a matter of fact it gets in the way. If you want to be of assistance you can make some suggestions to solve the problem now (not 20 years ago). Otherwise maybe you should just go play with all the rest of your little pals.

The public may make it worse but the problem will be fixed one way or another. I am not the type that gets a thrill watching this disaster. I wanted this name dropped a long time ago. I do not want this to continue on after June I assure you. You and your friends have been pointing fingers and blaming everyone for a very long time. Some are still blaming he NCAA and Al Carlson without mentioning themselves. Now that you have painted yourselves into a corner you start telling others to quit pointing fingers and assigning blame?

[ozzie679]

I think it's strange that the ND Legislature and now the citizens of ND will vote to determine UND's nickname. Shouldn't the issue be decided by the admin, students, alumni, faculty and staff?

[82SiouxGuy]

The public may make it worse but the problem will be fixed one way or another. I am not the type that gets a thrill watching this disaster. I wanted this name dropped a long time ago. I do not want this to continue on after June I assure you. You and your friends have been pointing fingers and blaming everyone for a very long time. Some are still blaming he NCAA and Al Carlson without mentioning themselves. Now that you have painted yourselves into a corner you start telling others to quit pointing fingers and assigning blame?

Again you paint with a very broad brush. Your only reason to be here is to stir the pot. You haven't done anything all day but try to blame people on this site for the problem. Try suggesting solutions. Or go back and play with your pals in Bville.

A vote in June either way is not a final fix to the issue. A yes vote will result in another trip to the Supreme Court to question the Constitutionality of the law. A no vote will eliminate that step. Either way there will be a Constitutional amendment effort to complete, and probably to vote on in November. Then there is the Spirit Lake lawsuit. That may get dismissed in a few weeks. If it isn't it will go on the calendar for 2013. Discovery will take a year or longer. The entire case from start to finish could take 2 or more years. Then there are possible appeals. The goal is to limit the damage, not a final fix for the problem at this point.